(04-22-2020, 03:33 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2020, 03:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]He'd play safety/big nickel/overhang and then one of the 3 LBs in base
Any of those positions by themselves would still be as dumb as LF27 at #4. Nickel back? Strong safety? Weakside linebacker? Ha! Especially compared to being able to draft a blue-chip LT prospect.
Nah not even close. The value in Simmons is the ability to play all of those spots and he can arguably the best answer to any TE in the entire league.
I'd be all for taking a blue chip LT too. And WR. Just saying Simmons is a really good pick too.... Options are promising this year
So here is my worry about Simmons.
Everyone keeps valuing so high because he is the "ultimate" joker who has the skills to play so many positions well. And he definitely demonstrated that in college. But here is the thing, how many NFL players historically could do that, especially out of the gate as rookies?
Sure he could be that unicorn. But once he gets into the league, most teams always worry about putting too much on his rookie plate especially after a shortened/altered pre-eason because there is not enough time to view all the tape at multiple positions, be in all the meetings, and most importantly get all the reps to be above-average or great at multiple positions.
That situation would probably be more likely on a team with multiple holes/question marks throughout the defense like the Jags. They would press him to concentrate on one position and "perfect that" position, or he would spend so much time trying to fill in the deficiencies that his true playmaking qualities will appear inconsistent.
I just feel he would be wasted unless a team basically has at least decent players throughout the defense, so he can just do his job, be instinctual, and make game breaking plays.
(04-22-2020, 05:54 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]So here is my worry about Simmons.
Everyone keeps valuing so high because he is the "ultimate" joker who has the skills to play so many positions well. And he definitely demonstrated that in college. But here is the thing, how many NFL players historically could do that, especially out of the gate as rookies?
Sure he could be that unicorn. But once he gets into the league, most teams always worry about putting too much on his rookie plate especially after a shortened/altered pre-eason because there is not enough time to view all the tape at multiple positions, be in all the meetings, and most importantly get all the reps to be above-average or great at multiple positions.
That situation would probably be more likely on a team with multiple holes/question marks throughout the defense like the Jags. They would press him to concentrate on one position and "perfect that" position, or he would spend so much time trying to fill in the deficiencies that his true playmaking qualities will appear inconsistent.
I just feel he would be wasted unless a team basically has at least decent players throughout the defense, so he can just do his job, be instinctual, and make game breaking plays.
Aaron Curray was a can't miss prospect at LB.
I think they learned their lesson with Myles Jack already. If you draft Isiah Simmons he's playing SS or OLB. Don't care which position. Just as long as they don't pass on him.
He's another Josh Allen type of opportunity that you don't pass up on. I don't think he'll be there personally. I could see Carolina viewing him as another Thomas Davis for them.
(04-22-2020, 12:35 PM)JAGs Nation Wrote: [ -> ]Unless Brown or Okudah are there at 9, we grab him. I think a 3-4 would best utilize the talents of Allen-Jack-Shoebert-Simmons.
Agreed completely. We still wouldn't have a NT, but if we took Simmons, a 3-4 would be ideal. I wouldn't put him at S.
In fact, if we went to a 3-4 with Simmons and Allen at OLB, I think we'd have the most versatile 3-4 OLBs in the league. Allen and Simmons should both be excellent pass rushers. Both can cover the pass without question. The only question would be how well could Simmons hold up at the point of attack.
If Okudah, Thomas, Brown and Wirfs are gone and we can’t trade back... Sure I guess.
I would be a lot less excited than most of you. If we take him, I hope my gut is wrong.
Imagine if we got Simmons at 9 and Kinlaw at 20...
(04-22-2020, 09:03 PM)ColoJag Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine if we got Simmons at 9 and Kinlaw at 20...
That would be a very good start to rebuilding the defense.
At that point, we'd still need at least one CB, one S, and a few more LBs.
(04-22-2020, 08:03 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2020, 12:35 PM)JAGs Nation Wrote: [ -> ]Unless Brown or Okudah are there at 9, we grab him. I think a 3-4 would best utilize the talents of Allen-Jack-Shoebert-Simmons.
Agreed completely. We still wouldn't have a NT, but if we took Simmons, a 3-4 would be ideal. I wouldn't put him at S.
In fact, if we went to a 3-4 with Simmons and Allen at OLB, I think we'd have the most versatile 3-4 OLBs in the league. Allen and Simmons should both be excellent pass rushers. Both can cover the pass without question. The only question would be how well could Simmons hold up at the point of attack.
Simmons wouldn't be good as a primary pass rusher though. He's more just an off ball LB who can get home on some blitzs , so you'd still need a different edge opposite Allen for a lot of snaps
(04-22-2020, 09:03 PM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]If Okudah, Thomas, Brown and Wirfs are gone and we can’t trade back... Sure I guess.
I would be a lot less excited than most of you. If we take him, I hope my gut is wrong.
Taking a LB at 9 is just not smart, but would fall perfectly in line with a “Jags pick”. If you don’t take care of the QB situation it really doesn’t matter any of these picks we will just lose them couple years from now. Priority should be QB friendly picks in the top 10. Enough with the typical defense Jags picks. Get offensive!
(04-22-2020, 04:01 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-22-2020, 03:33 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Any of those positions by themselves would still be as dumb as LF27 at #4. Nickel back? Strong safety? Weakside linebacker? Ha! Especially compared to being able to draft a blue-chip LT prospect.
Nah not even close. The value in Simmons is the ability to play all of those spots and he can arguably the best answer to any TE in the entire league.
I'd be all for taking a blue chip LT too. And WR. Just saying Simmons is a really good pick too.... Options are promising this year
He can't play all those positions at once.
Anyhow, does his college tape show him shutting down NFL caliber tight ends? I've seen only two Jags' defenders in recent memory with that ability -- Gipson and Jalen. Myles Jack was supposed to be able to, but Kelce abused him. If that's what Simmons brings to the table, then, yes, he's absolutely worth drafting. I'd also expect at least six sacks and/or interceptions per year to justify taking an ILB/SS/nickel in top #10.
But, again, you have to factor in that Wash prefers to stick his slowest post-Posluszny linebacker or smallest corner on tight ends. That's his version of a scheme "wrinkle."
Josh Allen and Simmons together would be some scary stuff.
Read on twitter if he falls to 9 he is the pick. Plan would be to play him like tyrann mathieu..
If Okudah, Brown, Wirfs and Thomas are gone and Simmons is on the board, I trade down. He's gonna need to go to a team with a creative minded Defensive Coordinator to maximize his unbelievable athletic skills. Personally, I believe Simmons is one of the top 5 players in this draft, from an athletic standpoint, but as we all know, Todd Wash is one of the most unimaginative, vanilla, "inside the box" thinkers in the NFL. Simmons would come here and his talents would be completely wasted. In our system, he would fit best as a WLB, but you could also play him as a blitzing Safety on passing downs and an OLB in 3-4 sets, but I have zero confidence that Wash would use him in the right way. We just signed Schobert to play the middle and we are tied to Jack's big contract, making him a lock for the WLB job. Given these factors, I could see Wash either playing Simmons at SLB where he would be completely wasted or at Strong Safety, where Ronnie Harrison (a promising, young player at that position and one of the few bright spots on the team), would then be forced into playing Free Safety, where he would be completely out of position, given his skill set. Had we not extended Myles Jack or had we hired a competent Defensive Coordinator after the season, I'd be all over Simmons. In fact, he'd probably be the #3 overall player on my board behind Burrow and Okudah. Unfortunately, we are not in that position though. Under the current circumstances, I would do the next best thing and trade down to acquire 2021 draft picks and take more straight-forward players with one real position. It's too bad we have been put in this position though. In the right system, Simmons can be an absolute "Beast."
So pass on Simmons because of Wash? Makes sense
(04-23-2020, 12:14 AM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]So pass on Simmons because of Wash? Makes sense
Yes. Wash would turn a talent like Simmons into a LB like Jack. I have no confidence in this coaching staff what so ever. Also, where would you play him since WLB and the MLB positions are already filled?
(04-23-2020, 01:03 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-23-2020, 12:14 AM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]So pass on Simmons because of Wash? Makes sense
Yes. Wash would turn a talent like Simmons into a LB like Jack. I have no confidence in this coaching staff what so ever. Also, where would you play him since WLB and the MLB positions are already filled?
Agreed. I hope he doesn't fall. I'm firmly on the Wirfs or Thomas train.
If Simmons slips to #9, you abso-freaking-lutely select him.
(04-23-2020, 12:14 AM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]So pass on Simmons because of Wash? Makes sense
Yeah, I hate this logic.
Let’s not draft a great prospect because we have a DC on a lame duck staff that probably won’t be able to use him.
The NFL has become such a niche business that few players excel in these kind of hybrid roles. In a lot of cases, you are better off getting a guy who is great at one thing as opposed to really good at many things. But on paper Simmons looks like he could be one of those outlier types that is so talented he could be be a legit safety and a legit LB at a high quality level. And if you have a creative enough defense mind (which we may or may not have), then he could be a special player for us. I think of a guy like Polamalu who was a great safety but made so many plays along the line of scrimmage.