Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(05-05-2020, 10:32 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2020, 08:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure why Jags fans are so bent on hating on Tony Khan.

What, precisely, has he done that earns the ire of so many American football fans? 

He's an owner of the team and he heads up the analytics department, which by all accounts, has very little input on acquisitions outside of UDFA players and an occasional late rounder.

Do we have some specific moment or decision that he has mishandled that bothers people so much? 

I don't get it. 

People seem to think his involvement in anything is automatically a bad thing despite the fact that they don't really know jack [BLEEP] about the guy.

He gets hate because he comes across very poorly on social media, is the son of a really bad owner and has failed at huge roles in other sports pretending he knows what he's doing. 

I don't mind him as he doesn't actually do much regarding the Jags (like you said) but fairly easily to see why he may be somewhat of a laughing stock to some

He is awesome on social media. What are you talking about?

(05-03-2020, 03:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-03-2020, 02:43 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Jury is definitely still out on Caldwell. I am on record as saying I would have totally cleaned house at the end of last season, but at the same time my gut tells me that Caldwell actually has the potential to be one of the best GMs in the league. Basically I'm full of [BLEEP] and don't know what to think anymore.

I really wonder if Khan's decision to retain Dave (and seemingly not just for one year) was influenced by inside knowledge of the moves that Dave would have made in the last few years that would have been different to the ones Coughlin made. For example, if it was common knowledge amongst the team's top brass in 2017 that Caldwell would have targeted Mahomes or Watson, but Coughlin overruled him to pick LF. That's the kind of thing, if Khan's was aware of it, that would massively change the perception of Caldwell. He could legitimately make the point to Khan that if he hadn't put Coughlin in place, and had let Dave follow his original plan, this team would be in a much better place. I know there are a bunch of rumors about this exact situation, but I guess we will never know the real truth. Still, it does seem that Khan knows, or at least thinks, something different to what us fans have been privy to.

I think i read somewhere Dave wanted CC, who is one of the best players in the league behind a average at best oline.  CC is who I wanted as well.  Jamal Adams or CC was my 2 guys

Who is CC? The only CC I know is a bad pizza buffet chain.

(05-05-2020, 11:28 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-03-2020, 03:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I think i read somewhere Dave wanted CC, who is one of the best players in the league behind a average at best oline.  CC is who I wanted as well.  Jamal Adams or CC was my 2 guys

Who is CC? The only CC I know is a bad pizza buffet chain.

Maybe he meant Chuck Clark, a safety drafted by the Ravens in the 6th round; Chris Carson, Settle's RB taken in the 7th; Corey Clement Eagles' RB who went undrafted?

Hard to fall in love with those three pre-draft so...I think he may have meant CMC of the Panthers.

RBs drafted by Caldwell:

Yeldon (pretty much everyone on the board wanted T. Coleman and he passed on him for Yeldon)
D. Robinson
Storm Johnson

FA's:

Forsett
Ivory
Gerhart

BS he wanted McCraffrey. BS he wanted Mahomes or Watson. He was probably on board with Fournette or one of the WRs.
HE drafted Bortles and let's be honest, while never being good, Bortles did play well in the playoffs. People just blame TC for the BB extension but Caldwell would have done the same thing.

(05-05-2020, 10:32 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2020, 08:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure why Jags fans are so bent on hating on Tony Khan.

What, precisely, has he done that earns the ire of so many American football fans? 

He's an owner of the team and he heads up the analytics department, which by all accounts, has very little input on acquisitions outside of UDFA players and an occasional late rounder.

Do we have some specific moment or decision that he has mishandled that bothers people so much? 

I don't get it. 

People seem to think his involvement in anything is automatically a bad thing despite the fact that they don't really know jack [BLEEP] about the guy.

He gets hate because he comes across very poorly on social media, is the son of a really bad owner and has failed at huge roles in other sports pretending he knows what he's doing. 

I don't mind him as he doesn't actually do much regarding the Jags (like you said) but fairly easily to see why he may be somewhat of a laughing stock to some

a - How does he come across poorly on S.M.?  (outside of Fulham stuff) 

b - I asked why fans of American football would dislike him so much  - most of them no nothing of his Fulham involvement and that seems to be coloring you take. 

There are lots of people locally here that don't follow his SM, don't know the first thing about international soccer, and have no knowledge of his background, but they are convinced his involvement with the Jags is something horrible. 
I find it strange.

(05-05-2020, 01:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 10:32 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]He gets hate because he comes across very poorly on social media, is the son of a really bad owner and has failed at huge roles in other sports pretending he knows what he's doing. 

I don't mind him as he doesn't actually do much regarding the Jags (like you said) but fairly easily to see why he may be somewhat of a laughing stock to some

a - How does he come across poorly on S.M.?  (outside of Fulham stuff) 

b - I asked why fans of American football would dislike him so much  - most of them no nothing of his Fulham involvement and that seems to be coloring you take. 

There are lots of people locally here that don't follow his SM, don't know the first thing about international soccer, and have no knowledge of his background, but they are convinced his involvement with the Jags is something horrible. 
I find it strange.

Tweeting at players (Yannick) , tweeting at reporters, telling fans to go to hell and then sliding into people's DMs to question them. 

Colouring my take? I don't care about Tony, just telling you why he gets hate from the fan base. Being the son of a horrible owner while having some kind of small role in the club usually doesn't go well for folks PR wise in any club or business

Khan is not a horrible owner. You might not agree with him having patience with Caldwell, but he is not a terrible owner. I wish people would realize that.

(05-05-2020, 02:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 01:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]a - How does he come across poorly on S.M.?  (outside of Fulham stuff) 

b - I asked why fans of American football would dislike him so much  - most of them no nothing of his Fulham involvement and that seems to be coloring you take. 

There are lots of people locally here that don't follow his SM, don't know the first thing about international soccer, and have no knowledge of his background, but they are convinced his involvement with the Jags is something horrible. 
I find it strange.

Tweeting at players (Yannick) , tweeting at reporters, telling fans to go to hell and then sliding into people's DMs to question them. 

Colouring my take? I don't care about Tony, just telling you why he gets hate from the fan base. Being the son of a horrible owner while having some kind of small role in the club usually doesn't go well for folks PR wise in any club or business

So it's primarily his social media interaction/behavior that you dislike as a Jags fan? 

The greater point I'm trying to get at here is that he may actually be good at what he does, and his minimal voice in decision making may actually be a good thing for all we know.  But the overwhelming consensus is that it's a very bad thing despite no actual evidence of that.

(05-05-2020, 02:25 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 02:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tweeting at players (Yannick) , tweeting at reporters, telling fans to go to hell and then sliding into people's DMs to question them. 

Colouring my take? I don't care about Tony, just telling you why he gets hate from the fan base. Being the son of a horrible owner while having some kind of small role in the club usually doesn't go well for folks PR wise in any club or business

So it's primarily his social media interaction/behavior that you dislike as a Jags fan? 

The greater point I'm trying to get at here is that he may actually be good at what he does, and his minimal voice in decision making may actually be a good thing for all we know.  But the overwhelming consensus is that it's a very bad thing despite no actual evidence of that.

There is no evidence other than he is the owner's son/future owner and the fact that he is active on social media.

(05-05-2020, 02:25 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 02:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tweeting at players (Yannick) , tweeting at reporters, telling fans to go to hell and then sliding into people's DMs to question them. 

Colouring my take? I don't care about Tony, just telling you why he gets hate from the fan base. Being the son of a horrible owner while having some kind of small role in the club usually doesn't go well for folks PR wise in any club or business

So it's primarily his social media interaction/behavior that you dislike as a Jags fan? 

The greater point I'm trying to get at here is that he may actually be good at what he does, and his minimal voice in decision making may actually be a good thing for all we know.  But the overwhelming consensus is that it's a very bad thing despite no actual evidence of that.

Nice contradiction there. There's no evidence to support that it's a very bad thing that he's got into verbal spats with fans and players? Yet, you're going to sit there and honestly suggest that he "may" actually be good at what he does?

Where's the evidence to support that NYC? I mean, I must have missed something over the last seven, eight years that would suggest otherwise no? Because this team, along with the soccer team have been pretty abysmal in the grand scheme of things since they've purchased our team and that team. 

Outside of maybe AEW. Which is benefiting from an aging Vince McMahon and his failures of keeping the WWE relevant. They've yet to show much evidence of success outside of "bottom line" margins I guess in every other sport they've delved into. 

Until they start winning the only evidence there is to sift through is that:

A. Clearly they've got their heads up their [BLEEP]. 
B. They care more about profits and numbers over actual wins. 

Between the mismanagement of player contracts, personnel hires, poor draft choices and retracting information leaked into the public and a stretch of seven or eight years with just one winning season in comparsion to the rest being of them just being double digit losing seasons? 

Yeah, I am sure he's actually good at what he does. Whatever the hell that might be. Was it analytics at some point? Boy wonder trying to do his best PFF impersonation during the off season? Maybe watched too much Moneyball? I don't know. But that's the great point I guess?

(05-05-2020, 02:21 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is not a horrible owner. You might not agree with him having patience with Caldwell, Marrone, Bradley and Wash but he is not a terrible owner. I wish people would realize that.

Yeah, after all who cares about winning, right?

(05-05-2020, 02:21 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is not a horrible owner. You might not agree with him having patience with Caldwell, but he is not a terrible owner. I wish people would realize that.

That's a blanket statement to paint anyone with. As you can be good at one or two things and be horrible at a plethora of others. You have to determine the standard in which you're basing this statement on. 

What characteristics makes him a good owner? I can list a few. His willingness to spend money is there. His willingness to go bigger and better in the innovation field is there as he did some things to make the "fan" experience somewhat better I guess during game day's at home (two of those are going overseas, thanks to COVID19 this will be delayed for at least this year). 

He's a well spoken leader. And he's done some things in the public eye that some of us probably loved, and most of us probably felt disgusted by (such as standing in London in unity with the players during the kneeling era). 

What are some of the things he's done that's considered bad? Well, obvious one being the commitment to London and trying to spin it as recently as late last year, early this year that somehow taking yet another home game away from Jacksonville was good for the city and fan base. Not cutting bait with below mediocre coaches, personnel within the front office and maybe making more efforts to show he's interested in winning. 

There's a thin line as well between a Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder type of owner Vs. an owner like Art Rooney and Jim Mara. Khan seems to lack either aspect of what it takes to succeed in the NFL. He just kind of floats around in the middle. He's not overly involved nor really involved. He's more like a paycheck instead of a father figure. Doesn't seem to be really all that engaged and because of that aspect of his persona it feels like he SHOULD be less tolerable of below mediocre results. 

But it doesn't appear to be that way. Seems like he's more involved in makinng sure that he sees things through due to contract commitments no matter how poor the results have been all across the board. I have said this several times in several threads. Had Coughlin's nonsense NOT been thrusted into the public spotlight. And had the NFLPA NOT given this franchise a black eye last year?

Coughlin still has his job. I am sure of it. He only made a move because he had no choice. Had that all been kept underwraps? Coughlin is still your EVP here, despite him saying "We were going to go in this direction anyway at the end of the season". Yeah. Sure you were. It's easy to make that statement after the fact. 

But please do tell. What are some of the good characteristics about him outside of?

(05-05-2020, 04:31 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 02:21 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is not a horrible owner. You might not agree with him having patience with Caldwell, but he is not a terrible owner. I wish people would realize that.

That's a blanket statement to paint anyone with. As you can be good at one or two things and be horrible at a plethora of others. You have to determine the standard in which you're basing this statement on. 

What characteristics makes him a good owner? I can list a few. His willingness to spend money is there. His willingness to go bigger and better in the innovation field is there as he did some things to make the "fan" experience somewhat better I guess during game day's at home (two of those are going overseas, thanks to COVID19 this will be delayed for at least this year). 

He's a well spoken leader. And he's done some things in the public eye that some of us probably loved, and most of us probably felt disgusted by (such as standing in London in unity with the players during the kneeling era). 

What are some of the things he's done that's considered bad? Well, obvious one being the commitment to London and trying to spin it as recently as late last year, early this year that somehow taking yet another home game away from Jacksonville was good for the city and fan base. Not cutting bait with below mediocre coaches, personnel within the front office and maybe making more efforts to show he's interested in winning. 

There's a thin line as well between a Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder type of owner Vs. an owner like Art Rooney and Jim Mara. Khan seems to lack either aspect of what it takes to succeed in the NFL. He just kind of floats around in the middle. He's not overly involved nor really involved. He's more like a paycheck instead of a father figure. Doesn't seem to be really all that engaged and because of that aspect of his persona it feels like he SHOULD be less tolerable of below mediocre results. 

But it doesn't appear to be that way. Seems like he's more involved in makinng sure that he sees things through due to contract commitments no matter how poor the results have been all across the board. I have said this several times in several threads. Had Coughlin's nonsense NOT been thrusted into the public spotlight. And had the NFLPA NOT given this franchise a black eye last year?

Coughlin still has his job. I am sure of it. He only made a move because he had no choice. Had that all been kept underwraps? Coughlin is still your EVP here, despite him saying "We were going to go in this direction anyway at the end of the season". Yeah. Sure you were. It's easy to make that statement after the fact. 

But please do tell. What are some of the good characteristics about him outside of?

I'll address the parts in bold in your comment.

First, the deal with London is very important to our city since we can't support the team on our own.  That's a fact.  The revenue gained from a London game is very important to actually keeping the team here in our city.  I wasn't and am not a fan of losing another home game to London, but where do you draw the line?  When you are losing money from the lack of support from the home city you have to supplement that income from somewhere.  While yes we are happy that all of the home games will be played here in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is it's going to come with a cost to the franchise.

The second part is simply your opinion.  I happen to think that the coaches, front office staff, etc. make every effort that they can to put together a winning team.  Do their efforts meet expectations?  It depends on who you ask.  As fans we say "no", but as an owner perhaps he knows more than we know.

The bottom line is he is a good owner in the fact that he hires people to manage his team.  He allows his team to sometimes fail (something that isn't taught or learned in today's education system).  However, failures are overcome and are a learning experience.

I happen to be pretty confident in the coaching staff/front office staff.  Who is available and will take the job that would be an upgrade?

(05-05-2020, 02:25 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 02:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tweeting at players (Yannick) , tweeting at reporters, telling fans to go to hell and then sliding into people's DMs to question them. 

Colouring my take? I don't care about Tony, just telling you why he gets hate from the fan base. Being the son of a horrible owner while having some kind of small role in the club usually doesn't go well for folks PR wise in any club or business

So it's primarily his social media interaction/behavior that you dislike as a Jags fan? 

The greater point I'm trying to get at here is that he may actually be good at what he does, and his minimal voice in decision making may actually be a good thing for all we know.  But the overwhelming consensus is that it's a very bad thing despite no actual evidence of that.

I don't care about it either way. I don't hate tony, just letting you know some of the reasons people do

---

(05-05-2020, 02:21 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is not a horrible owner. You might not agree with him having patience with Caldwell, but he is not a terrible owner. I wish people would realize that.

We will hit 100 losses under Khan this season most likely. You know how many that averages out to a year?

(05-05-2020, 03:57 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 02:25 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]So it's primarily his social media interaction/behavior that you dislike as a Jags fan? 

The greater point I'm trying to get at here is that he may actually be good at what he does, and his minimal voice in decision making may actually be a good thing for all we know.  But the overwhelming consensus is that it's a very bad thing despite no actual evidence of that.

Nice contradiction there. There's no evidence to support that it's a very bad thing that he's got into verbal spats with fans and players? Yet, you're going to sit there and honestly suggest that he "may" actually be good at what he does?

Where's the evidence to support that NYC? I mean, I must have missed something over the last seven, eight years that would suggest otherwise no? Because this team, along with the soccer team have been pretty abysmal in the grand scheme of things since they've purchased our team and that team. 

Outside of maybe AEW. Which is benefiting from an aging Vince McMahon and his failures of keeping the WWE relevant. They've yet to show much evidence of success outside of "bottom line" margins I guess in every other sport they've delved into. 

Until they start winning the only evidence there is to sift through is that:

A. Clearly they've got their heads up their [BLEEP]. 
B. They care more about profits and numbers over actual wins. 

Between the mismanagement of player contracts, personnel hires, poor draft choices and retracting information leaked into the public and a stretch of seven or eight years with just one winning season in comparsion to the rest being of them just being double digit losing seasons? 

Yeah, I am sure he's actually good at what he does. Whatever the hell that might be. Was it analytics at some point? Boy wonder trying to do his best PFF impersonation during the off season? Maybe watched too much Moneyball? I don't know. But that's the great point I guess?

A few things to clear up for you. 

I said he might be good at what he does for all we know. 
He might. 
He may be a wiz at analytics and he may be good at identifying talent via the application of said analytics. 
He may be terrible at it. 
We don't know how much of his work has actually been utilized in player acquisition.

I don't define his social media missteps as his career or "what he does."    If you want to intrinsically tie the two things together, that's fine, but I find it to be inaccurate. It's certainly inaccurate to my assertion. 

How has his social media interaction hurt the Jaguars, exactly?  His response to Ngakoue the other day seemed to actually garner support from many fans. 

Exactly how does Tony Khan have his head up his [BLEEP]?  I'm serious. Explain that diagnosis. 

How are you certain that TONY Khan cares more about numbers and profits than winning? 

And yes, that is the point. You don't know.
 But you hate the guy anyway. 

I think you know very little about him, have even less knowledge about what he does or doesn't do for the team, but you are completely confident in assuming he's got his head up his [BLEEP], only cares about money, and is bad for the organization.

edit: Is there some specific interaction with fans on SM that I'm completely unaware of that is influencing your opinion?
I've only ever seen fairly innocuous stuff there. And he usually seems to say all the right things even if a little clumsy dealing with a few irrational responses. Otherwise, the whole "shoot the messenger" or "guilt by association" approach to fans' general ire toward the guy still seem unfounded to me.

(05-05-2020, 10:35 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-04-2020, 08:49 PM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: [ -> ]Nepotism, perhaps? Maybe he's viewed as not having earned it?

There are a lot of NFL teams that have owners who inherited their teams.  The Rooneys in Pittsburgh, for example.  They didn't "earn it" either.   

In fact, you can say that no NFL owner earned his or her team.  They either inherited it, or they made money elsewhere bought their team.  

So I don't see why Tony Khan is any different from any other owner or child of an owner.

Okay, you and I don't see it that way, but others probably do. And in regard to your second paragraph, if one earns money elsewhere, then uses that money to buy a football team, that's the definition of earning it.

(05-05-2020, 02:21 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Khan is not a horrible owner. You might not agree with him having patience with Caldwell, but he is not a terrible owner. I wish people would realize that.

Khan hired TC to oversee the team and did nothing for two years while TC took over the roles of Caldwell and Marrone. Khan did eventually fire TC, so that's a plus.

If it's true that Khan hired Bradley over the recommendation of Caldwell then Khan is responsible for the 2013-2016 record, and he has a hand in the 2017-2019 record by hiring TC. He also kept Gene Smith and hired Mularkey, although I don't credit him with that mistake, they were Weaver's parting gift.

Khan is therefore responsible for the entire Jags record since he bought the team, and had a major role in most of it. I can blame Bradley for ruining the first four years, and TC for ruining the lat two. Khan hired both.

You can blame Marrone for the failure in the AFC Championship game, the OL, and the lack of flexibility on defense because he held on to Wash. You can blame Caldwell for draft, free agent, and personnel mistakes, at least pre-Coughlin. But we really haven't seen Caldwell or Marrone completely in charge yet so I wouldn't put the W-L record on either one.

9-6 or 10-7

This owner and his son.. Much like the fans on here. You're all full of hot air. Writing's on the wall. We need London? No. We need a winner. An owner that gives a [BLEEP] about winning and takes chances to win. Winning puts [BLEEP] in seats. Period.

You guys setlled for mediocrity. You guys deserve each other. Enjoy that over inflated hot air. Or blow it out your [BLEEP]. Peace.

Caldwell to me is some good, some bad.  I believe he is just average.

The coaching on this team has been either atrocious or nonexistent, and that’s been our biggest problem since Khan bought the team.  How much of that is Caldwell’s fault is up for debate.

Regardless, this should be the final season for this front office, since outside of this message board we are expected to have the pole position on the race to the #1 pick in next year’s draft.

Gonna be another loooong season, guys.