Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

DC knows he’s a lame duck GM. Same goes for the coaches, Gruden may be hanging out to see if he can fill another HC job for someone who gets fired after 2020

Caldwell is the best GM the Jags have had in their short history. Some of y'all spit venom just to spit venom

(05-05-2020, 05:33 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 04:31 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]That's a blanket statement to paint anyone with. As you can be good at one or two things and be horrible at a plethora of others. You have to determine the standard in which you're basing this statement on. 

What characteristics makes him a good owner? I can list a few. His willingness to spend money is there. His willingness to go bigger and better in the innovation field is there as he did some things to make the "fan" experience somewhat better I guess during game day's at home (two of those are going overseas, thanks to COVID19 this will be delayed for at least this year). 

He's a well spoken leader. And he's done some things in the public eye that some of us probably loved, and most of us probably felt disgusted by (such as standing in London in unity with the players during the kneeling era). 

What are some of the things he's done that's considered bad? Well, obvious one being the commitment to London and trying to spin it as recently as late last year, early this year that somehow taking yet another home game away from Jacksonville was good for the city and fan base. Not cutting bait with below mediocre coaches, personnel within the front office and maybe making more efforts to show he's interested in winning. 

There's a thin line as well between a Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder type of owner Vs. an owner like Art Rooney and Jim Mara. Khan seems to lack either aspect of what it takes to succeed in the NFL. He just kind of floats around in the middle. He's not overly involved nor really involved. He's more like a paycheck instead of a father figure. Doesn't seem to be really all that engaged and because of that aspect of his persona it feels like he SHOULD be less tolerable of below mediocre results. 

But it doesn't appear to be that way. Seems like he's more involved in makinng sure that he sees things through due to contract commitments no matter how poor the results have been all across the board. I have said this several times in several threads. Had Coughlin's nonsense NOT been thrusted into the public spotlight. And had the NFLPA NOT given this franchise a black eye last year?

Coughlin still has his job. I am sure of it. He only made a move because he had no choice. Had that all been kept underwraps? Coughlin is still your EVP here, despite him saying "We were going to go in this direction anyway at the end of the season". Yeah. Sure you were. It's easy to make that statement after the fact. 

But please do tell. What are some of the good characteristics about him outside of?

I'll address the parts in bold in your comment.

First, the deal with London is very important to our city since we can't support the team on our own.  That's a fact.  The revenue gained from a London game is very important to actually keeping the team here in our city.  I wasn't and am not a fan of losing another home game to London, but where do you draw the line?  When you are losing money from the lack of support from the home city you have to supplement that income from somewhere.  While yes we are happy that all of the home games will be played here in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is it's going to come with a cost to the franchise.

The second part is simply your opinion.  I happen to think that the coaches, front office staff, etc. make every effort that they can to put together a winning team.  Do their efforts meet expectations?  It depends on who you ask.  As fans we say "no", but as an owner perhaps he knows more than we know.

The bottom line is he is a good owner in the fact that he hires people to manage his team.  He allows his team to sometimes fail (something that isn't taught or learned in today's education system).  However, failures are overcome and are a learning experience.

I happen to be pretty confident in the coaching staff/front office staff.  Who is available and will take the job that would be an upgrade?

This post mostly makes no sense. 

First, Khan allows his teams to sometimes fail?! You mean basically all the time right? He’s had 1 winning season in his tenure as owner. Second, how does he “allow them to fail (which isn’t taught in today’s education)”? Today’s education has nothing to do with the Jags organization and their attempts to winning.

Third, at what point should you fire this staff that has done just about nothing in terms of winning on the field? Just keep letting them lose and say “hey. These young kids don’t get it. What with their madden and instant success. Give Marrone 10 more years and we got this 8 win season in the bag.”

Last, of course they’re trying to win. Every coach is trying to win but this staff just isn’t good at it. Glad you’re enjoying the losing though and trying to equate sports to every day life where losing can become life lessons.

(05-06-2020, 01:39 AM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]DC knows he’s a lame duck GM. Same goes for the coaches, Gruden may be hanging out to see if he can fill another HC job for someone who gets fired after 2020

He isn't a lame duck. Lame ducks know it is over and they are getting fired no matter what. Nothing Caldwell has done to this point says he is in lame duck mode. He is clearly trying to build the best team possible and it is clear he has a plan on how to do it.

(05-06-2020, 01:39 AM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]DC knows he’s a lame duck GM. Same goes for the coaches, Gruden may be hanging out to see if he can fill another HC job for someone who gets fired after 2020

Nah, if they are half way competitive and even close to .500 DC and Marrone have another year after 2020 on their contract, iirc.

(05-06-2020, 01:39 AM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]DC knows he’s a lame duck GM. Same goes for the coaches, Gruden may be hanging out to see if he can fill another HC job for someone who gets fired after 2020

So kinda like last year when everybody was saying the same thing?

(05-06-2020, 07:40 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-05-2020, 05:33 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I'll address the parts in bold in your comment.

First, the deal with London is very important to our city since we can't support the team on our own.  That's a fact.  The revenue gained from a London game is very important to actually keeping the team here in our city.  I wasn't and am not a fan of losing another home game to London, but where do you draw the line?  When you are losing money from the lack of support from the home city you have to supplement that income from somewhere.  While yes we are happy that all of the home games will be played here in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is it's going to come with a cost to the franchise.

The second part is simply your opinion.  I happen to think that the coaches, front office staff, etc. make every effort that they can to put together a winning team.  Do their efforts meet expectations?  It depends on who you ask.  As fans we say "no", but as an owner perhaps he knows more than we know.

The bottom line is he is a good owner in the fact that he hires people to manage his team.  He allows his team to sometimes fail (something that isn't taught or learned in today's education system).  However, failures are overcome and are a learning experience.

I happen to be pretty confident in the coaching staff/front office staff.  Who is available and will take the job that would be an upgrade?

This post mostly makes no sense. 

First, Khan allows his teams to sometimes fail?! You mean basically all the time right? He’s had 1 winning season in his tenure as owner. Second, how does he “allow them to fail (which isn’t taught in today’s education)”? Today’s education has nothing to do with the Jags organization and their attempts to winning.

Third, at what point should you fire this staff that has done just about nothing in terms of winning on the field? Just keep letting them lose and say “hey. These young kids don’t get it. What with their madden and instant success. Give Marrone 10 more years and we got this 8 win season in the bag.”

Last, of course they’re trying to win. Every coach is trying to win but this staff just isn’t good at it. Glad you’re enjoying the losing though and trying to equate sports to every day life where losing can become life lessons.

I guess (not surprising) you don't understand the point that I was trying to make, so let me see if I can be a little more clear about it.

1.  The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  Anything less is a failure.

2.  Doug Marrone has been head coach for only 3 seasons.  That's not much and one of those seasons he managed to make it to the post-season and beyond.

3.  Changes have been made to front office/coaching staff during that time.  Were/are they the right changes?  The only way to find out is to let a season play out and evaluate.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" by firing everybody and starting over.  You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them.  That's what I meant by "allowing failure" (refer to my first point).

At no time did I say that I "enjoy losing".  In a perfect world I would love to see the team not lose a game and be champs every season.  That's not reality.  Many fans want to "win now", and when they don't get their way they pout like little children.  You're not going to win every time and that is a life lesson.  You accept it, learn from it and move on.

(05-06-2020, 02:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 07:40 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This post mostly makes no sense. 

First, Khan allows his teams to sometimes fail?! You mean basically all the time right? He’s had 1 winning season in his tenure as owner. Second, how does he “allow them to fail (which isn’t taught in today’s education)”? Today’s education has nothing to do with the Jags organization and their attempts to winning.

Third, at what point should you fire this staff that has done just about nothing in terms of winning on the field? Just keep letting them lose and say “hey. These young kids don’t get it. What with their madden and instant success. Give Marrone 10 more years and we got this 8 win season in the bag.”

Last, of course they’re trying to win. Every coach is trying to win but this staff just isn’t good at it. Glad you’re enjoying the losing though and trying to equate sports to every day life where losing can become life lessons.

I guess (not surprising) you don't understand the point that I was trying to make, so let me see if I can be a little more clear about it.

1.  The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  Anything less is a failure.

2.  Doug Marrone has been head coach for only 3 seasons.  That's not much and one of those seasons he managed to make it to the post-season and beyond.

3.  Changes have been made to front office/coaching staff during that time.  Were/are they the right changes?  The only way to find out is to let a season play out and evaluate.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" by firing everybody and starting over.  You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them.  That's what I meant by "allowing failure" (refer to my first point).

At no time did I say that I "enjoy losing".  In a perfect world I would love to see the team not lose a game and be champs every season.  That's not reality.  Many fans want to "win now", and when they don't get their way they pout like little children.  You're not going to win every time and that is a life lesson.  You accept it, learn from it and move on.

Shad is that you?

You do realize there's like 95% chance this is gonna be a losing season right? Khan knows it and he is still ok with it because he is too cheap to fire these guys and pay other people too.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" Sure, you give awful HCs and GM at least 5 years, maybe more, depends on the excuses you can make up for them. Wait, let me guess, that's is not what you meant. You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them Like what changes? Coordinators? Like when JDR had like 5 OCs and we still had a mediocre Offense?. 2 years was more than enough to know Bradley was a mistake. 3 years for Gene Smith. 3 years for Caldwell as well since he never had a winning season until TC arrived and did his job. 

Many fans wanna win now hahahahahahahaha can you blame them? DC record before TC was 15-49, if we want a record of all the years he's been here 36-76. Fans understand pretty well that if we get a new FO and coaching staff we are not gonna win right away, the thing is, WE DON'T WANNA STAY WITH WHAT WE KNOW IT DOESN'T WORK!

If we somehow manage to have a decent (doesn't mean winning season) season this year and next it will be thanks to Minshew, a Coughlin's guy, but I know some people will still give the credit to DC anyway and will be saying we need to extend him and we'll stay awful/mediocre for 3-4 more year, just the way you like it.

Caldwell isn't a lame duck. He's gonna be GM for 2021 draft regardless of what the record is this year I'd say, Marrone will likely be fired with a bad year however

(05-06-2020, 02:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 07:40 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This post mostly makes no sense. 

First, Khan allows his teams to sometimes fail?! You mean basically all the time right? He’s had 1 winning season in his tenure as owner. Second, how does he “allow them to fail (which isn’t taught in today’s education)”? Today’s education has nothing to do with the Jags organization and their attempts to winning.

Third, at what point should you fire this staff that has done just about nothing in terms of winning on the field? Just keep letting them lose and say “hey. These young kids don’t get it. What with their madden and instant success. Give Marrone 10 more years and we got this 8 win season in the bag.”

Last, of course they’re trying to win. Every coach is trying to win but this staff just isn’t good at it. Glad you’re enjoying the losing though and trying to equate sports to every day life where losing can become life lessons.

I guess (not surprising) you don't understand the point that I was trying to make, so let me see if I can be a little more clear about it.

1.  The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  Anything less is a failure.

2.  Doug Marrone has been head coach for only 3 seasons.  That's not much and one of those seasons he managed to make it to the post-season and beyond.

3.  Changes have been made to front office/coaching staff during that time.  Were/are they the right changes?  The only way to find out is to let a season play out and evaluate.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" by firing everybody and starting over.  You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them.  That's what I meant by "allowing failure" (refer to my first point).

At no time did I say that I "enjoy losing".  In a perfect world I would love to see the team not lose a game and be champs every season.  That's not reality.  Many fans want to "win now", and when they don't get their way they pout like little children.  You're not going to win every time and that is a life lesson.  You accept it, learn from it and move on.

Lol

1. You literally never said that or insinuated that but thanks for clarifying the goal is to win the championship. I was unaware.

2. Marrone has been the head coach for longer than 3 years and was also a part of the previous coaching staff that was terrible. His record speaks for itself. My issue is that there hasn’t been improvement under Marrone. The team is getting worse. 

3. The whole FO situation has been botched so bad that it’s laughable. Hire Caldwell. Hire Coughlin. Fire Coughlin. Maintain Caldwell. Makes absolutely no sense.

Lastly, this isn’t even “win now”. This team has been bad for such a long time. How dare fans expect more than the 2nd worst record over the last 10 years or so in the entire NFL. And I agree with one thing. You have to learn from your failures which is why it’s hilarious that Khan isn’t doing that and pretty much no one is doing that. Give Bortles a bad contract for no reason? Hey. Lets just do it again with Foles! If the ultimate goal is to win a SB, do you honestly believe that can be done with Marrone? If not, why keep him?

(05-06-2020, 03:19 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 02:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I guess (not surprising) you don't understand the point that I was trying to make, so let me see if I can be a little more clear about it.

1.  The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  Anything less is a failure.

2.  Doug Marrone has been head coach for only 3 seasons.  That's not much and one of those seasons he managed to make it to the post-season and beyond.

3.  Changes have been made to front office/coaching staff during that time.  Were/are they the right changes?  The only way to find out is to let a season play out and evaluate.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" by firing everybody and starting over.  You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them.  That's what I meant by "allowing failure" (refer to my first point).

At no time did I say that I "enjoy losing".  In a perfect world I would love to see the team not lose a game and be champs every season.  That's not reality.  Many fans want to "win now", and when they don't get their way they pout like little children.  You're not going to win every time and that is a life lesson.  You accept it, learn from it and move on.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" Sure, you give awful HCs and GM at least 5 years, maybe more, depends on the excuses you can make up for them. Wait, let me guess, that's is not what you meant. You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them Like what changes? Coordinators? Like when JDR had like 5 OCs and we still had a mediocre Offense?. 2 years was more than enough to know Bradley was a mistake. 3 years for Gene Smith. 3 years for Caldwell as well since he never had a winning season until TC arrived and did his job. 

Many fans wanna win now hahahahahahahaha can you blame them? DC record before TC was 15-49, if we want a record of all the years he's been here 36-76. Fans understand pretty well that if we get a new FO and coaching staff we are not gonna win right away, the thing is, WE DON'T WANNA STAY WITH WHAT WE KNOW IT DOESN'T WORK!

If we somehow manage to have a decent (doesn't mean winning season) season this year and next it will be thanks to Minshew, a Coughlin's guy, but I know some people will still give the credit to DC anyway and will be saying we need to extend him and we'll stay awful/mediocre for 3-4 more year, just the way you like it.

(Italics and underline added)

How did you determine Marrone is an "awful" coach?  Was it after he brought Buffalo their first winning season in a decade, or when he brought the Jaguars their first winning season in a decade?  Was it the next year, when the team was down to it's 4th LT by mid season?  BTW, that 4th LT wasn't even on the roster a the beginning of the season.  In fact, he was on our opponent's opening day roster as starting RT.  Or was it last year, when the starting QB was injured eleven (11) offensive plays into the season to be replaced by a rookie QB, and the started CB lost all patience with the team because of TC (among other possible reasons)? 

As for how long it takes to know if hring a coach was a mistake, given the state of our roster at the end of 2012 and the start of 2013, there was no way to definitively know Bradley was a mistake.  You could suspect it, yes.  But if you are basing it solely on W-L, NOBODY would have won with that roster. 

To illustrate

Consider the coach with the following records in his first 6 seasons as a head coach:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11

Only one (1) winning record in SIX (6) seasons-without even managing one playoff win?!?

Certainly he is not worthy to be a head coach, right?

Congrats. 

You would have canned or not hired  Bill freaking Beliichick.

Now I don't compare Marrone to Belichick-or any number of coaches most deem to be or have been great.

But what happened with Belichick after 2000?  Did he not know anything about coaching despite his father being a coach, despite him being a defensive coordinator for a decade under hall of fame coach Bill Parcells, and being head coach in Cleveland from 1991-1995?  Did he have to return to Parcells with the Jets to learn the how to coach?  If so, why didn't he win in 2000?  What happened between 2000 and 2001 to make him a coach capable of winning for 20 straight seasons, reaching Nine Super Bowls and winning six?

Want a hint? 

Guys named Tom Brady, Matt Light, and Richard Seymour.  I'm no expert, but I would say those guys were pretty important to their success, wouldn't you?  They were added to players like Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Ty Law and Lawyer Millloy.


That nucleus enabled him to go on an unprecedented span of winning.

If a coach like Belichick needs talent to win, why should it be any different for Marrone? 

More importantly as it pertains to your analysis, if the team didn't win until TC arrived, then why didn't it continue to win while TC was still here?  If TC were the catalyst, and he was here for three years, shouldn't we be coming off three straight winning seasons?

While TCs contributions to the team helped (I credit him with bringing the key free agents aboard like Campbell, Bouye, and Church), there were plenty of Caldwell's picks that were catalysts on that 2017 team, including Ramsey, Bortles, Yann, Jack, Telvin Smith, et al.

Accordingly, it is quite possible that Khan legitimately thought that despite the disappointing records, neither Dace Caldwell mor Doug Marrone were completely blameworthy for the final results the past two years.

As for not waiting 3 years to move on from a coach deemed not good enough, the browns have had SEVEN (7) head coaches within the last decade.  Where has such instability gotten them?

(05-06-2020, 03:55 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 02:18 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I guess (not surprising) you don't understand the point that I was trying to make, so let me see if I can be a little more clear about it.

1.  The ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  Anything less is a failure.

2.  Doug Marrone has been head coach for only 3 seasons.  That's not much and one of those seasons he managed to make it to the post-season and beyond.

3.  Changes have been made to front office/coaching staff during that time.  Were/are they the right changes?  The only way to find out is to let a season play out and evaluate.

If a team is not successful after 2 or 3 seasons you don't just "blow it all up" by firing everybody and starting over.  You evaluate and determine where changes need to be made and make them.  That's what I meant by "allowing failure" (refer to my first point).

At no time did I say that I "enjoy losing".  In a perfect world I would love to see the team not lose a game and be champs every season.  That's not reality.  Many fans want to "win now", and when they don't get their way they pout like little children.  You're not going to win every time and that is a life lesson.  You accept it, learn from it and move on.

Lol

1. You literally never said that or insinuated that but thanks for clarifying the goal is to win the championship. I was unaware.

2. Marrone has been the head coach for longer than 3 years and was also a part of the previous coaching staff that was terrible. His record speaks for itself. My issue is that there hasn’t been improvement under Marrone. The team is getting worse. 

3. The whole FO situation has been botched so bad that it’s laughable. Hire Caldwell. Hire Coughlin. Fire Coughlin. Maintain Caldwell. Makes absolutely no sense.

Lastly, this isn’t even “win now”. This team has been bad for such a long time. How dare fans expect more than the 2nd worst record over the last 10 years or so in the entire NFL. And I agree with one thing. You have to learn from your failures which is why it’s hilarious that Khan isn’t doing that and pretty much no one is doing that. Give Bortles a bad contract for no reason? Hey. Lets just do it again with Foles! If the ultimate goal is to win a SB, do you honestly believe that can be done with Marrone? If not, why keep him?

2.  Marrone was interim head coach for the last two games of 2016.  The team went 1-1 then and played much better those last two games than they played in any point the last four and 7/8 seasons.  The next year, his first as head coach, the team finished 10-6, won the division, and advanced to the AFC Championship game.  The 10-6 record was the first winning season the team had in a decade,  The division title was the first this team has enjoyed since the 1999 season.  The appearance in the AFC Championship was its first since the 1999 season, and they outplayed the Patriots for most of that game.  Much to our collective dismay, the team has regressed considerably since then.  But to say the team has shown NO improvement whatsoever is disingenuous.

3.  It makes sense if you thought Caldwell was more critical to the team's success (however limited it may have been) than Coughlin and less responsible for the team's regression than TC. 

So what would you have done at QB in 2019?  I get not signing Bortles to an extension the year before.  The most that should have been done is utilizing the 5th year option on his rookie deal, and I could see jettisoning him completely after 2018.  But who would you have to QB the team going into last year if you don't sign Foles?

(05-06-2020, 10:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 03:55 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Lol

1. You literally never said that or insinuated that but thanks for clarifying the goal is to win the championship. I was unaware.

2. Marrone has been the head coach for longer than 3 years and was also a part of the previous coaching staff that was terrible. His record speaks for itself. My issue is that there hasn’t been improvement under Marrone. The team is getting worse. 

3. The whole FO situation has been botched so bad that it’s laughable. Hire Caldwell. Hire Coughlin. Fire Coughlin. Maintain Caldwell. Makes absolutely no sense.

Lastly, this isn’t even “win now”. This team has been bad for such a long time. How dare fans expect more than the 2nd worst record over the last 10 years or so in the entire NFL. And I agree with one thing. You have to learn from your failures which is why it’s hilarious that Khan isn’t doing that and pretty much no one is doing that. Give Bortles a bad contract for no reason? Hey. Lets just do it again with Foles! If the ultimate goal is to win a SB, do you honestly believe that can be done with Marrone? If not, why keep him?

2.  Marrone was interim head coach for the last two games of 2016.  The team went 1-1 then and played much better those last two games than they played in any point the last four and 7/8 seasons.  The next year, his first as head coach, the team finished 10-6, won the division, and advanced to the AFC Championship game.  The 10-6 record was the first winning season the team had in a decade,  The division title was the first this team has enjoyed since the 1999 season.  The appearance in the AFC Championship was its first since the 1999 season, and they outplayed the Patriots for most of that game.  Much to our collective dismay, the team has regressed considerably since then.  But to say the team has shown NO improvement whatsoever is disingenuous.

3.  It makes sense if you thought Caldwell was more critical to the team's success (however limited it may have been) than Coughlin and less responsible for the team's regression than TC. 

So what would you have done at QB in 2019?  I get not signing Bortles to an extension the year before.  The most that should have been done is utilizing the 5th year option on his rookie deal, and I could see jettisoning him completely after 2018.  But who would you have to QB the team going into last year if you don't sign Foles?

Tannehill and draft Haskins. Start Tannehill and let Haskins sit and learn.

Foles for that kind of money was always a terrible move. Sign Tannehill for cheap.

Also you just said the team has gotten worse. They peaked in his first season (riding a wave of great luck and backup QBs) and have gotten worse ever since.

This team will most likely be bad again this year and so they’ll fire Marrone a year after they should have. It’s the never ending cycle of the Jags waiting too long to cut bait when the choice is so obvious.

(05-06-2020, 10:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 10:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]2.  Marrone was interim head coach for the last two games of 2016.  The team went 1-1 then and played much better those last two games than they played in any point the last four and 7/8 seasons.  The next year, his first as head coach, the team finished 10-6, won the division, and advanced to the AFC Championship game.  The 10-6 record was the first winning season the team had in a decade,  The division title was the first this team has enjoyed since the 1999 season.  The appearance in the AFC Championship was its first since the 1999 season, and they outplayed the Patriots for most of that game.  Much to our collective dismay, the team has regressed considerably since then.  But to say the team has shown NO improvement whatsoever is disingenuous.

3.  It makes sense if you thought Caldwell was more critical to the team's success (however limited it may have been) than Coughlin and less responsible for the team's regression than TC. 

So what would you have done at QB in 2019?  I get not signing Bortles to an extension the year before.  The most that should have been done is utilizing the 5th year option on his rookie deal, and I could see jettisoning him completely after 2018.  But who would you have to QB the team going into last year if you don't sign Foles?

Tannehill and draft Haskins. Start Tannehill and let Haskins sit and learn.

Foles for that kind of money was always a terrible move. Sign Tannehill for cheap.

Also you just said the team has gotten worse. They peaked in his first season (riding a wave of great luck and backup QBs) and have gotten worse ever since.

This team will most likely be bad again this year and so they’ll fire Marrone a year after they should have. If the never ending cycle of the Jags waiting too long to cut bait when the choice is so obvious.

So you would sacrifice Allen for Haskins?  Interesting.  Tannehill would have been an interesting choice, but I don't think he was the difference between us having a winning season or not.  I think last year we end up losing with Tannehill and everyone concludes he wasn't the answer.  In Tennessee, he had everything around him to succeed with minimal production from him.  He had a strong running game and a good group of receivers and a typically tough defense.  I don't see him carrying a team.

Yeah, the team did get worse since 2017.  Not all of that falls on Marrone.

I fault Marrone for his response to that season by firing some very good assistants.  I expressed concerns at the time those firings were made and I haven't changed my mind since (though the Gruden hiring is promising).

Not all of it falls on Caldwell.  Caldwell drafted talented players.  TC traded two of them away.

Not all of it falls on TC, though he was the first to be fired for it.

TC got good free agents here, but then alienated four contributors (Robinson, Ramsey, Fowler and Yan).  Three of them are gone, and one is trying deaperately to leave.

Will Marrone likely be fired after a losing year this year?  Probably.  I think Caldwell has more rope, but both are on short leashes I think.

I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

(05-06-2020, 10:34 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

This is what everyone on both sides of this discussion really wants, of course. I wouldn't even care if it was sustained winning.  I'd just like to see us be competitive again, week to week.

Limit the ridiculous blowouts where we seem totally unprepared and lost (like last year:  28-11 Bucs, 33-13 Colts, 26-3 Texans, 45-10 Chargers, 42-20 Titans).

Stay alive in the playoff hunt through November at least and give the fans something to actually look forward to on gamedays.

That kind of stuff.

(05-06-2020, 10:34 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 10:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Tannehill and draft Haskins. Start Tannehill and let Haskins sit and learn.

Foles for that kind of money was always a terrible move. Sign Tannehill for cheap.

Also you just said the team has gotten worse. They peaked in his first season (riding a wave of great luck and backup QBs) and have gotten worse ever since.

This team will most likely be bad again this year and so they’ll fire Marrone a year after they should have. If the never ending cycle of the Jags waiting too long to cut bait when the choice is so obvious.

So you would sacrifice Allen for Haskins?  Interesting.  Tannehill would have been an interesting choice, but I don't think he was the difference between us having a winning season or not.  I think last year we end up losing with Tannehill and everyone concludes he wasn't the answer.  In Tennessee, he had everything around him to succeed with minimal production from him.  He had a strong running game and a good group of receivers and a typically tough defense.  I don't see him carrying a team.

Yeah, the team did get worse since 2017.  Not all of that falls on Marrone.

I fault Marrone for his response to that season by firing some very good assistants.  I expressed concerns at the time those firings were made and I haven't changed my mind since (though the Gruden hiring is promising).

Not all of it falls on Caldwell.  Caldwell drafted talented players.  TC traded two of them away.

Not all of it falls on TC, though he was the first to be fired for it.

TC got good free agents here, but then alienated four contributors (Robinson, Ramsey, Fowler and Yan).  Three of them are gone, and one is trying deaperately to leave.

Will Marrone likely be fired after a losing year this year?  Probably.  I think Caldwell has more rope, but both are on short leashes I think.

I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

That’s what we all want man and I don’t see Marrone leading this team to a Super Bowl which is why I would have cut bait after the 2019 season.

(05-06-2020, 10:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 10:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]2.  Marrone was interim head coach for the last two games of 2016.  The team went 1-1 then and played much better those last two games than they played in any point the last four and 7/8 seasons.  The next year, his first as head coach, the team finished 10-6, won the division, and advanced to the AFC Championship game.  The 10-6 record was the first winning season the team had in a decade,  The division title was the first this team has enjoyed since the 1999 season.  The appearance in the AFC Championship was its first since the 1999 season, and they outplayed the Patriots for most of that game.  Much to our collective dismay, the team has regressed considerably since then.  But to say the team has shown NO improvement whatsoever is disingenuous.

3.  It makes sense if you thought Caldwell was more critical to the team's success (however limited it may have been) than Coughlin and less responsible for the team's regression than TC. 

So what would you have done at QB in 2019?  I get not signing Bortles to an extension the year before.  The most that should have been done is utilizing the 5th year option on his rookie deal, and I could see jettisoning him completely after 2018.  But who would you have to QB the team going into last year if you don't sign Foles?

Tannehill and draft Haskins. Start Tannehill and let Haskins sit and learn.

Foles for that kind of money was always a terrible move. Sign Tannehill for cheap.

Also you just said the team has gotten worse. They peaked in his first season (riding a wave of great luck and backup QBs) and have gotten worse ever since.

This team will most likely be bad again this year and so they’ll fire Marrone a year after they should have. It’s the never ending cycle of the Jags waiting too long to cut bait when the choice is so obvious.

Damn man, glad you're not the GM.  Dave got a better QB in the 6th and we wouldn't have Allen

(05-07-2020, 07:11 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 10:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Tannehill and draft Haskins. Start Tannehill and let Haskins sit and learn.

Foles for that kind of money was always a terrible move. Sign Tannehill for cheap.

Also you just said the team has gotten worse. They peaked in his first season (riding a wave of great luck and backup QBs) and have gotten worse ever since.

This team will most likely be bad again this year and so they’ll fire Marrone a year after they should have. It’s the never ending cycle of the Jags waiting too long to cut bait when the choice is so obvious.

Damn man, glad you're not the GM.  Dave got a better QB in the 6th and we wouldn't have Allen

Well hindsight is 2020 right? We all know I was on the Haskins train and he finished the season strong last year. And do we really want to get into all the decisions you would have made at GM? You would have had Tebow as the QB.....

It’s great to have Allen now but he’s not going to a SB unless the Jags find a QB.

(05-07-2020, 04:55 AM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 10:34 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

This is what everyone on both sides of this discussion really wants, of course. I wouldn't even care if it was sustained winning.  I'd just like to see us be competitive again, week to week.

Limit the ridiculous blowouts where we seem totally unprepared and lost (like last year:  28-11 Bucs, 33-13 Colts, 26-3 Texans, 45-10 Chargers, 42-20 Titans).

Stay alive in the playoff hunt through November at least and give the fans something to actually look forward to on gamedays.

That kind of stuff.

I get that as a general rule, but then I hear people allege some here are content with losing, etc. and I wonder.

I would like to think this is true, but then I realize people were ready to fire Marrone last year when the team was 4-4 at the halfway point with a rookie 6th round QB taking most of the snaps by that point.  Do you suggest that had we lost all of those games in the second half of the season closely and still finished with the exact same record, peoplw wouldn't want Marrone gone?

I don't.

I think the prolonged losing this fan base has suffered, which predated Marrone's arrival and, after a one year break, has returned, has made this fan base less patient than ever.

(05-07-2020, 07:05 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-06-2020, 10:34 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So you would sacrifice Allen for Haskins?  Interesting.  Tannehill would have been an interesting choice, but I don't think he was the difference between us having a winning season or not.  I think last year we end up losing with Tannehill and everyone concludes he wasn't the answer.  In Tennessee, he had everything around him to succeed with minimal production from him.  He had a strong running game and a good group of receivers and a typically tough defense.  I don't see him carrying a team.

Yeah, the team did get worse since 2017.  Not all of that falls on Marrone.

I fault Marrone for his response to that season by firing some very good assistants.  I expressed concerns at the time those firings were made and I haven't changed my mind since (though the Gruden hiring is promising).

Not all of it falls on Caldwell.  Caldwell drafted talented players.  TC traded two of them away.

Not all of it falls on TC, though he was the first to be fired for it.

TC got good free agents here, but then alienated four contributors (Robinson, Ramsey, Fowler and Yan).  Three of them are gone, and one is trying deaperately to leave.

Will Marrone likely be fired after a losing year this year?  Probably.  I think Caldwell has more rope, but both are on short leashes I think.

I just hope if either or both are fired, they are upgraded, and the team is able to draft AND RETAIN top tier talent and freaking win!  I'm not talking  a few game winning streak.  I'm not talking one season of winning.  I'm talking sustained winning...that excites the city into buying season tickets and fans into buying merchandising, winning a Super Bowl or three.

That’s what we all want man and I don’t see Marrone leading this team to a Super Bowl which is why I would have cut bait after the 2019 season.

I know that he can get us within 2-4 minutes of the Super bowl with a sufficiently talented team playing on the road against the GOAT coach and QB.  Not speculation...fact.  Because that's exactly what happened here. 

With Blake freaking Bortles.

The questions are:  A) can we build a sufficiently talented team again? and B  )  How long will it take?

Maybe, if we can actually draft good to great players and commit to keeping as many of them as possible so we can actually accumulate talent instead of drafting on a treadmill.  Whether you like the particular players or not, the fact is the team comes up with too many justifications for jettisoning too many damn talented players.

This offseason represents a culture change as much as an attempt t inject talent.  There is now much more of an emphasis on character, etc.

There should be zero excuse NOT to res-sign the bulk of these players if we hit on them and they become pro bowl caliber guys.