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28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...K1x7PgKyrI

(05-28-2020, 10:04 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...K1x7PgKyrI

Congratulations, 28.3 million idiots didn't update their address or gave a bad one when registering. You'll note that it specifically says in the article that there's no evidence that any ballots were used fraudulently. So, basically, over the course of the last four elections, approximately seven million ballots went missing in each...and were never seen, heard from or used. That's actually not a bad number of mail pieces to get lost.

I love the progression of this. Trump sees Wisconsin and decides that mail-in ballots are a threat to his re-election, so suddenly they're a threat to democracy and must be stopped. Republicans who previously didn't care about mail-in ballots in their own states circle the wagons behind him. The Drifters and StroudCrowds of the world bow at the altar of the Almighty Orange and immediately parrot that and link incredibly factually questionable (at best) articles suggesting that somehow lost mail equals fraud. [BLEEP] me sideways with a lunchbox, I better go make sure no one's used that 10% off coupon from Petco that never made it to me.

(05-28-2020, 10:04 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...K1x7PgKyrI

They probably just weren't filled out and mailed back in.  I was debating whether to send mine back in 2016- since we had the two worst Presidential candidates of all time.  I went right up to the deadline.  I'm sure a lot of people in 2016 just let that thing sit on their desk until the deadline passed, and then they threw it in the trash.

(05-28-2020, 11:27 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2020, 10:04 PM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...K1x7PgKyrI

Congratulations, 28.3 million idiots didn't update their address or gave a bad one when registering. You'll note that it specifically says in the article that there's no evidence that any ballots were used fraudulently. So, basically, over the course of the last four elections, approximately seven million ballots went missing in each...and were never seen, heard from or used. That's actually not a bad number of mail pieces to get lost.

I love the progression of this. Trump sees Wisconsin and decides that mail-in ballots are a threat to his re-election, so suddenly they're a threat to democracy and must be stopped. Republicans who previously didn't care about mail-in ballots in their own states circle the wagons behind him. The Drifters and StroudCrowds of the world bow at the altar of the Almighty Orange and immediately parrot that and link incredibly factually questionable (at best) articles suggesting that somehow lost mail equals fraud. [BLEEP] me sideways with a lunchbox, I better go make sure no one's used that 10% off coupon from Petco that never made it to me.

The few that were caught

And the incidents are increasing with time as more people vote by absentee ballot.

Do you not understand that there's a huge difference between some people requesting and receiving an absentee ballot vs. everyone getting a ballot in the mail. If you intend to steal votes you have to know where the mail-in ballots can be found. If everyone gets one then that question is already answered. There are enough incidents in the past when only a subset of votes could be stolen to show that this is a real possibility. Whether or not the number was small or just the tip of the iceberg in the past has no bearing on what could/would happen if everyone votes by mail.

(05-29-2020, 09:14 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-28-2020, 11:27 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Congratulations, 28.3 million idiots didn't update their address or gave a bad one when registering. You'll note that it specifically says in the article that there's no evidence that any ballots were used fraudulently. So, basically, over the course of the last four elections, approximately seven million ballots went missing in each...and were never seen, heard from or used. That's actually not a bad number of mail pieces to get lost.

I love the progression of this. Trump sees Wisconsin and decides that mail-in ballots are a threat to his re-election, so suddenly they're a threat to democracy and must be stopped. Republicans who previously didn't care about mail-in ballots in their own states circle the wagons behind him. The Drifters and StroudCrowds of the world bow at the altar of the Almighty Orange and immediately parrot that and link incredibly factually questionable (at best) articles suggesting that somehow lost mail equals fraud. [BLEEP] me sideways with a lunchbox, I better go make sure no one's used that 10% off coupon from Petco that never made it to me.

The few that were caught

And the incidents are increasing with time as more people vote by absentee ballot.

Do you not understand that there's a huge difference between some people requesting and receiving an absentee ballot vs. everyone getting a ballot in the mail. If you intend to steal votes you have to know where the mail-in ballots can be found. If everyone gets one then that question is already answered. There are enough incidents in the past when only a subset of votes could be stolen to show that this is a real possibility. Whether or not the number was small or just the tip of the iceberg in the past has no bearing on what could/would happen if everyone votes by mail.

So here's how you do it:

1. Two months before the election, send every registered voter a PIN. Send the PIN again at 45 days. Without this PIN, online balloting cannot be completed and a mail-in ballot won't be accepted.
   
2. The ballot contains a second identification number, tied to that PIN. The PIN and ballot are never stored together, but if the PIN doesn't match the ballot ID, the vote won't be counted. Personal identification is not contained on either form.
   

...that's it. Dual-factor authentication saves the day again.

(05-29-2020, 12:24 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 09:14 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]The few that were caught

And the incidents are increasing with time as more people vote by absentee ballot.

Do you not understand that there's a huge difference between some people requesting and receiving an absentee ballot vs. everyone getting a ballot in the mail. If you intend to steal votes you have to know where the mail-in ballots can be found. If everyone gets one then that question is already answered. There are enough incidents in the past when only a subset of votes could be stolen to show that this is a real possibility. Whether or not the number was small or just the tip of the iceberg in the past has no bearing on what could/would happen if everyone votes by mail.

So here's how you do it:

1. Two months before the election, send every registered voter a PIN. Send the PIN again at 45 days. Without this PIN, online balloting cannot be completed and a mail-in ballot won't be accepted.
   
2. The ballot contains a second identification number, tied to that PIN. The PIN and ballot are never stored together, but if the PIN doesn't match the ballot ID, the vote won't be counted. Personal identification is not contained on either form.
   

...that's it. Dual-factor authentication saves the day again.

Except that's not two factor authentication.

(05-29-2020, 12:35 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 12:24 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]So here's how you do it:

1. Two months before the election, send every registered voter a PIN. Send the PIN again at 45 days. Without this PIN, online balloting cannot be completed and a mail-in ballot won't be accepted.
   
2. The ballot contains a second identification number, tied to that PIN. The PIN and ballot are never stored together, but if the PIN doesn't match the ballot ID, the vote won't be counted. Personal identification is not contained on either form.
   

...that's it. Dual-factor authentication saves the day again.

Except that's not two factor authentication.

...excuse me?

Maybe not in the sense that it doesn't require your fingerprints, but it's the best way to handle it without requiring information linking a ballot to a person. If someone wants to steal those votes, they'd have to canvas the neighborhood twice. Once to steal the PIN, once to steal the ballot. If the local office received numerous reports of PINs that never arrived, they'd presumably issue new ones with new numbers linked to the existing ballots.

(05-29-2020, 12:24 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 09:14 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]The few that were caught

And the incidents are increasing with time as more people vote by absentee ballot.

Do you not understand that there's a huge difference between some people requesting and receiving an absentee ballot vs. everyone getting a ballot in the mail. If you intend to steal votes you have to know where the mail-in ballots can be found. If everyone gets one then that question is already answered. There are enough incidents in the past when only a subset of votes could be stolen to show that this is a real possibility. Whether or not the number was small or just the tip of the iceberg in the past has no bearing on what could/would happen if everyone votes by mail.

So here's how you do it:

1. Two months before the election, send every registered voter a PIN. Send the PIN again at 45 days. Without this PIN, online balloting cannot be completed and a mail-in ballot won't be accepted.
   
2. The ballot contains a second identification number, tied to that PIN. The PIN and ballot are never stored together, but if the PIN doesn't match the ballot ID, the vote won't be counted. Personal identification is not contained on either form.
   

...that's it. Dual-factor authentication saves the day again.

Sounds good to me. 

I've voted using absentee ballots many times while in the military and have little concern my ballot was received and counted, although I have no way to verify that. Given that absentee and mail-in ballots were used in relatively small numbers, the temptation and opportunity for fraud was small. However, used on a large scale, what is the probability that fraud will increase substantially? Greatly, in my opinion. There needs to be a system which uses robust security methods to deter it or there will most certainly be reports of fraud and a raft of contested close races centered on the question of voter fraud. 

If they're going to do it, they need to do it right or it will forever be questioned and doubted.

(05-29-2020, 12:39 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 12:35 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Except that's not two factor authentication.

...excuse me?

Maybe not in the sense that it doesn't require your fingerprints, but it's the best way to handle it without requiring information linking a ballot to a person. If someone wants to steal those votes, they'd have to canvas the neighborhood twice. Once to steal the PIN, once to steal the ballot. If the local office received numerous reports of PINs that never arrived, they'd presumably issue new ones with new numbers linked to the existing ballots.

The only authentication is a PIN.

I thought you democrats wanted to make voting easier?

(05-29-2020, 12:39 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 12:35 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Except that's not two factor authentication.

...excuse me?

Maybe not in the sense that it doesn't require your fingerprints, but it's the best way to handle it without requiring information linking a ballot to a person. If someone wants to steal those votes, they'd have to canvas the neighborhood twice. Once to steal the PIN, once to steal the ballot. If the local office received numerous reports of PINs that never arrived, they'd presumably issue new ones with new numbers linked to the existing ballots.

The DNC doesn't want what you are proposing. It isn't ripe for hacking.

The perception is Republicans want to make it "hard to vote". That isn't the case. We just want non-criminals with a pulse and social security number voting. Not even sure why any sane person would combat that.

(05-29-2020, 12:49 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 12:39 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]...excuse me?

Maybe not in the sense that it doesn't require your fingerprints, but it's the best way to handle it without requiring information linking a ballot to a person. If someone wants to steal those votes, they'd have to canvas the neighborhood twice. Once to steal the PIN, once to steal the ballot. If the local office received numerous reports of PINs that never arrived, they'd presumably issue new ones with new numbers linked to the existing ballots.

The only authentication is a PIN.

I thought you democrats wanted to make voting easier?

Well, for one, [BLEEP] Democrats. Two, the second ID number on the ballot itself is the second factor. Without the PIN matching that number, the ballot is rejected. If anything, you Republicans should love this. It's way, way easier to exclude voters than any kind of true MFA would be.

(05-29-2020, 01:03 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 12:49 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The only authentication is a PIN.

I thought you democrats wanted to make voting easier?

Well, for one, [BLEEP] Democrats. Two, the second ID number on the ballot itself is the second factor. Without the PIN matching that number, the ballot is rejected. If anything, you Republicans should love this. It's way, way easier to exclude voters than any kind of true MFA would be.

You obviously don't know or understand what two factor authentication is.  I'll try to give you an example in simple terms that even a democrat like you can understand.

At my work in order to access a door or a computer I must present a photo ID that has a special code encoded on a microchip to a card reader.  The system will authenticate whether or not it's a valid ID and if I have permission to access the space.  If either fails then I'm stopped right there.  Then I have to enter a PIN or password which the system then uses to authenticate whether or not it matches the special code on the ID card presented.  It's something that I physically have (the photo ID) and something that I know (the PIN/password).

Voting in person with a valid photo ID is the only way to go with the few exceptions where someone may need an absentee ballot.

(05-29-2020, 01:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:03 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Well, for one, [BLEEP] Democrats. Two, the second ID number on the ballot itself is the second factor. Without the PIN matching that number, the ballot is rejected. If anything, you Republicans should love this. It's way, way easier to exclude voters than any kind of true MFA would be.

You obviously don't know or understand what two factor authentication is.  I'll try to give you an example in simple terms that even a democrat like you can understand.

At my work in order to access a door or a computer I must present a photo ID that has a special code encoded on a microchip to a card reader.  The system will authenticate whether or not it's a valid ID and if I have permission to access the space.  If either fails then I'm stopped right there.  Then I have to enter a PIN or password which the system then uses to authenticate whether or not it matches the special code on the ID card presented.  It's something that I physically have (the photo ID) and something that I know (the PIN/password).

Voting in person with a valid photo ID is the only way to go with the few exceptions where someone may need an absentee ballot.

Thought you were above insults.

Guess not.

(05-29-2020, 01:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:03 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Well, for one, [BLEEP] Democrats. Two, the second ID number on the ballot itself is the second factor. Without the PIN matching that number, the ballot is rejected. If anything, you Republicans should love this. It's way, way easier to exclude voters than any kind of true MFA would be.

You obviously don't know or understand what two factor authentication is.  I'll try to give you an example in simple terms that even a democrat like you can understand.

At my work in order to access a door or a computer I must present a photo ID that has a special code encoded on a microchip to a card reader.  The system will authenticate whether or not it's a valid ID and if I have permission to access the space.  If either fails then I'm stopped right there.  Then I have to enter a PIN or password which the system then uses to authenticate whether or not it matches the special code on the ID card presented.  It's something that I physically have (the photo ID) and something that I know (the PIN/password).

Voting in person with a valid photo ID is the only way to go with the few exceptions where someone may need an absentee ballot.

The bar codes on absentee ballots are adequate to prevent ballot box stuffing. You can't just make copies of a ballot.
They are not adequate to verify that the ballot was filled out by the person who was supposed to fill it out.
That might sound insecure to you, but, it is extremely impractical, nearly impossible, to turn an election by stealing ballots that were intended for others, without getting caught.

(05-29-2020, 01:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:03 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Well, for one, [BLEEP] Democrats. Two, the second ID number on the ballot itself is the second factor. Without the PIN matching that number, the ballot is rejected. If anything, you Republicans should love this. It's way, way easier to exclude voters than any kind of true MFA would be.

You obviously don't know or understand what two factor authentication is.  I'll try to give you an example in simple terms that even a democrat like you can understand.

Do you know what I do for a living, exactly? Don't assume that you can lecture me on what 2FA is because I'm using a very broad, general interpretation of the term that applies to this situation. I deal with the much more technical form of MFA on a daily [BLEEP] basis, and I deal with the simpler types that involve one code being sent to your email and another sent to your phone. In the interest of keeping things clear for you, I won't go any deeper. I wouldn't expect a delivery boy to understand that there can be different applications of the same concept.

(05-29-2020, 01:31 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]You obviously don't know or understand what two factor authentication is.  I'll try to give you an example in simple terms that even a democrat like you can understand.

At my work in order to access a door or a computer I must present a photo ID that has a special code encoded on a microchip to a card reader.  The system will authenticate whether or not it's a valid ID and if I have permission to access the space.  If either fails then I'm stopped right there.  Then I have to enter a PIN or password which the system then uses to authenticate whether or not it matches the special code on the ID card presented.  It's something that I physically have (the photo ID) and something that I know (the PIN/password).

Voting in person with a valid photo ID is the only way to go with the few exceptions where someone may need an absentee ballot.

Thought you were above insults.

Guess not.

Insult?  If being called a democrat is an "insult" then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

(05-29-2020, 01:41 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:21 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]You obviously don't know or understand what two factor authentication is.  I'll try to give you an example in simple terms that even a democrat like you can understand.

Do you know what I do for a living, exactly? Don't assume that you can lecture me on what 2FA is because I'm using a very broad, general interpretation of the term that applies to this situation. I deal with the much more technical form of MFA on a daily [BLEEP] basis, and I deal with the simpler types that involve one code being sent to your email and another sent to your phone. In the interest of keeping things clear for you, I won't go any deeper. I wouldn't expect a delivery boy to understand that there can be different applications of the same concept.

Sorry.  Didn't mean to trigger you.  I was only trying to educate you a bit.

(05-29-2020, 01:44 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:31 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Thought you were above insults.

Guess not.

Insult?  If being called a democrat is an "insult" then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

(05-29-2020, 01:41 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Do you know what I do for a living, exactly? Don't assume that you can lecture me on what 2FA is because I'm using a very broad, general interpretation of the term that applies to this situation. I deal with the much more technical form of MFA on a daily [BLEEP] basis, and I deal with the simpler types that involve one code being sent to your email and another sent to your phone. In the interest of keeping things clear for you, I won't go any deeper. I wouldn't expect a delivery boy to understand that there can be different applications of the same concept.

Sorry.  Didn't mean to trigger you.  I was only trying to educate you a bit.

So saying “In simple terms so that even a Democrat like you can understand” isn’t implying that Democrats are dumber than Republicans? 

Hahaha ok then dude. And when proven wrong you then say “didn’t mean to trigger you”? You really think he’s triggered?

(sigh) Civility is dead.

(05-29-2020, 01:54 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ](sigh) Civility is dead.

It’s been dead for a while now on this board.

(05-29-2020, 01:49 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2020, 01:44 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Insult?  If being called a democrat is an "insult" then I guess I'm guilty as charged.


Sorry.  Didn't mean to trigger you.  I was only trying to educate you a bit.

So saying “In simple terms so that even a Democrat like you can understand” isn’t implying that Democrats are dumber than Republicans? 

Hahaha ok then dude. And when proven wrong you then say “didn’t mean to trigger you”? You really think he’s triggered?

LOL.  So you got triggered even worse than TJ.  Allegedly I got "proven wrong" even though I wasn't.

Getting back on topic, voting by mail is in no way secure and should be rejected.  If we can go to WalMart or Home Depot and stand in line while "social distancing" we can surely do the same while voting in person with a photo ID.