(05-29-2020, 02:19 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 01:49 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]So saying “In simple terms so that even a Democrat like you can understand” isn’t implying that Democrats are dumber than Republicans?
Hahaha ok then dude. And when proven wrong you then say “didn’t mean to trigger you”? You really think he’s triggered?
LOL. So you got triggered even worse than TJ. Allegedly I got "proven wrong" even though I wasn't.
Getting back on topic, voting by mail is in no way secure and should be rejected. If we can go to WalMart or Home Depot and stand in line while "social distancing" we can surely do the same while voting in person with a photo ID.
Or waiting in line to get cupcakes. But I digress.
(05-29-2020, 02:19 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 01:49 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]So saying “In simple terms so that even a Democrat like you can understand” isn’t implying that Democrats are dumber than Republicans?
Hahaha ok then dude. And when proven wrong you then say “didn’t mean to trigger you”? You really think he’s triggered?
LOL. So you got triggered even worse than TJ. Allegedly I got "proven wrong" even though I wasn't.
Triggered? Nah. Just trying to educate you a bit.
You know what the best way to keep threads on track is? Neither do I, not on this train wreck anyway. I do know one great way to take them off track: pretending that you want them on track while sneaking in digs and insults to people who offend your delicate sensibilities, then playing the, "I AM MOD HEAR ME ROAR" card whenever you're sufficiently triggered. Remember back when this board first moved onto its own site and you insisted that you had no interest in actually moderating anything? You were just here to handle the back end? What happened?
Here's the best argument against the restriction of absentee ballots:
An individual has to take the bus to work. This is a process that eats up an hour. It costs them $3.50 round-trip. In order to get back to their polling place and vote, they have to ride the bus back down. That's another $3.50, and another two hours round trip. Then they have to stand in line for at least an hour because of social distancing requirements that slow everything down. So now we're up to three hours which may or may not (probably not) be paid, plus $3.50 for the bus ride. And the people faced with this situation are primarily going to be low-income urban voters. You know, people who aren't going to vote Republican.
Jesus [BLEEP] Christ almighty, I wonder why Trumpublicans have their panties in a twist about making sure that everyone votes in person unless they're military or the President.
(05-29-2020, 02:37 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 02:19 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. So you got triggered even worse than TJ. Allegedly I got "proven wrong" even though I wasn't.
Triggered? Nah. Just trying to educate you a bit.
You know what the best way to keep threads on track is? Neither do I, not on this train wreck anyway. I do know one great way to take them off track: pretending that you want them on track while sneaking in digs and insults to people who offend your delicate sensibilities, then playing the, "I AM MOD HEAR ME ROAR" card whenever you're sufficiently triggered. Remember back when this board first moved onto its own site and you insisted that you had no interest in actually moderating anything? You were just here to handle the back end? What happened?
Here's the best argument against the restriction of absentee ballots:
An individual has to take the bus to work. This is a process that eats up an hour. It costs them $3.50 round-trip. In order to get back to their polling place and vote, they have to ride the bus back down. That's another $3.50, and another two hours round trip. Then they have to stand in line for at least an hour because of social distancing requirements that slow everything down. So now we're up to three hours which may or may not (probably not) be paid, plus $3.50 for the bus ride. And the people faced with this situation are primarily going to be low-income urban voters. You know, people who aren't going to vote Republican.
Jesus [BLEEP] Christ almighty, I wonder why Trumpublicans have their panties in a twist about making sure that everyone votes in person unless they're military or the President.
+10000
It's about chain-of-custody of the ballots.
(05-29-2020, 02:37 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 02:19 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. So you got triggered even worse than TJ. Allegedly I got "proven wrong" even though I wasn't.
Triggered? Nah. Just trying to educate you a bit.
You know what the best way to keep threads on track is? Neither do I, not on this train wreck anyway. I do know one great way to take them off track: pretending that you want them on track while sneaking in digs and insults to people who offend your delicate sensibilities, then playing the, "I AM MOD HEAR ME ROAR" card whenever you're sufficiently triggered. Remember back when this board first moved onto its own site and you insisted that you had no interest in actually moderating anything? You were just here to handle the back end? What happened?
Here's the best argument against the restriction of absentee ballots:
An individual has to take the bus to work. This is a process that eats up an hour. It costs them $3.50 round-trip. In order to get back to their polling place and vote, they have to ride the bus back down. That's another $3.50, and another two hours round trip. Then they have to stand in line for at least an hour because of social distancing requirements that slow everything down. So now we're up to three hours which may or may not (probably not) be paid, plus $3.50 for the bus ride. And the people faced with this situation are primarily going to be low-income urban voters. You know, people who aren't going to vote Republican.
Jesus [BLEEP] Christ almighty, I wonder why Trumpublicans have their panties in a twist about making sure that everyone votes in person unless they're military or the President.
You are a poor educator if you think that your idea is "two factor authentication". Whatever.
Regarding my personal responsibilities and actions on this board, I very seldom use "mod powers" and again... whatever.
If you consider being called a democrat is an insult, then that's on you. I call 'em like I see 'em. Again.... whatever.
The process to vote has not changed in decades. The only reason democrats want to change the process now is because of COVID. If the same person in your scenario wanted to vote in past elections he/she would have had to go through the same process.
If you have to show up in person with photo ID and documentation to get a passport, why not have the same rule to vote? If you have to present a photo ID in person to purchase a gun, adult beverages or a plane ticket why not have the same rule to vote? If you have to present a photo ID to cash that government "stimulus" check why not the same requirement to vote? If you have to present photo ID and documentation to collect unemployment benefits or food stamps why not the same requirement to vote?
Again this is being proposed by you and your fellow democrats because of the "danger" of COVID.
(05-29-2020, 12:24 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 09:14 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]The few that were caught
And the incidents are increasing with time as more people vote by absentee ballot.
Do you not understand that there's a huge difference between some people requesting and receiving an absentee ballot vs. everyone getting a ballot in the mail. If you intend to steal votes you have to know where the mail-in ballots can be found. If everyone gets one then that question is already answered. There are enough incidents in the past when only a subset of votes could be stolen to show that this is a real possibility. Whether or not the number was small or just the tip of the iceberg in the past has no bearing on what could/would happen if everyone votes by mail.
So here's how you do it:
- Two months before the election, send every registered voter a PIN. Send the PIN again at 45 days. Without this PIN, online balloting cannot be completed and a mail-in ballot won't be accepted.
- The ballot contains a second identification number, tied to that PIN. The PIN and ballot are never stored together, but if the PIN doesn't match the ballot ID, the vote won't be counted. Personal identification is not contained on either form.
...that's it. Dual-factor authentication saves the day again.
I'm cool with this, but it would never work. It's more secure than our current mail-in ballots, but it's still exploitable. If you could "accidentally" mail the PINs to the wrong address, you could disenfranchise thousands of voters.
(05-29-2020, 10:07 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 12:24 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]So here's how you do it:
- Two months before the election, send every registered voter a PIN. Send the PIN again at 45 days. Without this PIN, online balloting cannot be completed and a mail-in ballot won't be accepted.
- The ballot contains a second identification number, tied to that PIN. The PIN and ballot are never stored together, but if the PIN doesn't match the ballot ID, the vote won't be counted. Personal identification is not contained on either form.
...that's it. Dual-factor authentication saves the day again.
I'm cool with this, but it would never work. It's more secure than our current mail-in ballots, but it's still exploitable. If you could "accidentally" mail the PINs to the wrong address, you could disenfranchise thousands of voters.
... if we can't trust our supervisors of election we have other problems ...
There's a reason FL has 67 different supervisors. There's a reason the law is set up such that any of them will go immediately to jail if they misplace even a dollar. These are not people who are easily recruited into grand conspiracies.
I guess you're right. Florida has had no problems with any elections. And I can't think of any county that has repeatedly come under fire for tampering...
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(05-30-2020, 08:36 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I guess you're right. Florida has had no problems with any elections. And I can't think of any county that has repeatedly come under fire for tampering...
Again, that's not what I said.
Our problems are manageable, the people who cause them are prosecuted, and they are far short of the scale that would change the result of any election.
The supervisors and others are vigilant on our behalf. They already carefully watch registration forms received in the mail, ballots sent in the mail, and ballots received in the mail. They can scale that up.
And my point was to point out the security flaw in Bender's post. It's not a bad idea, it just can be exploited.
I'm glad you trust everyone put in a position of authority, but I don't. Especially not now. The more likely one believes they need to win, the more likely one is to cheat the system. Would you say we live in a time when people are more or less likely to cheat? And this goes either way. Democrats don't trust Republicans and vice versa. It's never been more partisan in my lifetime. In my opinion, this is the worst time to start relaxing restrictions on voting, because the temptation has never been higher. Personally, I believe the best blend of ease of voting, anonymity, and voter secure is at the ballot box. I'm open to other ideas, but just want to be practical. I'm especially interested if we can find a way to tie it to voter id.
VOTER FRAUD NEVER HAPPENS so let's create a system where VOTER FRAUD CAN NEVER BE DETECTED!
I know for sure votes can get "lost" because mine did. In 2008 I voted for Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party. There were 0 votes recorded for Cynthia McKinney in my precinct when the totals were released.
(05-30-2020, 12:06 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]And my point was to point out the security flaw in Bender's post. It's not a bad idea, it just can be exploited.
The more likely one believes they need to win, the more likely one is to cheat the system. Would you say we live in a time when people are more or less likely to cheat? And this goes either way. Democrats don't trust Republicans and vice versa. It's never been more partisan in my lifetime. In my opinion, this is the worst time to start relaxing restrictions on voting, because the temptation has never been higher. I'm glad you trust everyone put in a position of authority, but I don't. Especially not now. Imo, the best blend of ease of voting, anonymity, and voter secure is at the ballot box. I'm open to other ideas, but just want to be practical. I'm especially interested if we can find a way to tie it to voter id.
I definitely don't trust everyone in authority!
Have you ever seen the documentaries that have been made of the Korean DMZ?
South Korean soldiers are well fed, and know they are better off than North Koreans. They don't have any incentive to "cheat" at their job, to defect. They face forward towards the border. They look at nothing but North Korea while standing guard.
The North Korean soldiers have every incentive to cheat. They stand parallel to the border, facing *each other*. So they can not only shoot invading South Koreans, but also shoot their comrade as soon as he even thinks of making a run for freedom.
Our elections officials and candidates are more like the North Korean soldiers, than the South.
What if your mailperson doesn't like you and your ballot gets lost? What if there's a non-official policy at the local post office that all ballots from certain zip codes go in the shredder?
I voted by mail in 2016. I was going to be out of town for 3 weeks working during the election. Seemed like a reasonable alternative. My vote was trackable and of course anyone can add a tracking number to any piece of mail they deem worthy to be informed of when and where it is delivered.
I received a letter (after the election) informing me my mail in vote(s) were not accepted because I had already voted at a polling place. Which I had not.
I logged into the voter registration portal at (I think) duvalelections.com or where ever the letter directed me. And there was all my information re-registered at a different address and zip code. Someone had hacked my registration - registered themselves as me and gone to their polling place as me and voted.
I filled out forms and sent emails to no avail of any kind.
This year I'll be double checking that registration and voting as early as possible.
If you are someone who believes mail in votes are rife with fraud, you should probably take a look at early voting as well. That's how this fraudster stole my vote. 6.5 Million votes were cast in early voting in FL in 2016.
(05-30-2020, 02:00 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I voted by mail in 2016. I was going to be out of town for 3 weeks working during the election. Seemed like a reasonable alternative. My vote was trackable and of course anyone can add a tracking number to any piece of mail they deem worthy to be informed of when and where it is delivered.
I received a letter (after the election) informing me my mail in vote(s) were not accepted because I had already voted at a polling place. Which I had not.
I logged into the voter registration portal at (I think) duvalelections.com or where ever the letter directed me. And there was all my information re-registered at a different address and zip code. Someone had hacked my registration - registered themselves as me and gone to their polling place as me and voted.
I filled out forms and sent emails to no avail of any kind.
This year I'll be double checking that registration and voting as early as possible.
If you are someone who believes mail in votes are rife with fraud, you should probably take a look at early voting as well. That's how this fraudster stole my vote. 6.5 Million votes were cast in early voting in FL in 2016.
Someone went to a lot of trouble to take part of your identity. Sounds like they even might have got a fake photo ID printed. With your name, address and social, did they also open up credit cards in your name? Did you tell the police? Did you tell any local media?
I can't believe that in 2020 we're talking about snail mail as an improvement.
Curious of Pelosi and the dumbs will propose looting by mail? Surely it is safe to go to the polls now.
The left agenda is in full force.
Our country was nice while we had it. We had some good times.