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(06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
(06-09-2020, 12:47 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Andrew Jackson played no role in the Confederacy or the civil War, so...
I mean yes the Trail of Tears was a genocide that Georgia's armed forces started and Andrew Jackson finished.
But, unlike Robert E Lee or Nathaniel Forrest, Jackson also did good things and is often remembered for those.
Obviously you don't know your history about Robert E. Lee.
Then place them in a venue that personifies history: a museum.
When are the rest of the Democrat statues coming down?
I was fortunate enough to be able to learn history without the visual effects of statues so I'm sure the intelligent Gen Z generation will be able to do the same.
Does anyone really give a rat's [BLEEP] about those statues and monuments? Seriously. Dig deep down within yourselves and think of the last time your heart swelled with pride over a monument to a confederate soldier. Why do we need reminders of a time when our country was divided and represented by the losing side who fought for an abhorred cause? Removing these statues also removes a long simmering grievance and casts our city in a more tolerant light. Having monuments to the confederacy certainly isn't a corporate and tourism selling point.
The only one erection I care about... And it dont come down that easily
(06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
(06-09-2020, 12:47 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Andrew Jackson played no role in the Confederacy or the civil War, so...
I mean yes the Trail of Tears was a genocide that Georgia's armed forces started and Andrew Jackson finished.
But, unlike Robert E Lee or Nathaniel Forrest, Jackson also did good things and is often remembered for those.
Obviously you don't know your history about Robert E. Lee.
I'm not saying the man never did anything nice.
There are contexts where he's remembered positively. I understand they study his battle plans at West Point alongside Rommel, Bonaparte, and even Hannibal, as they should. And I understand he's a hero of the Mexican-American war as well.
But outside the context of military education, is there anything we remember Lee for that wasn't an effort to prolong or whitewash the enslavement of Americans?
(06-09-2020, 02:24 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone really give a rat's [BLEEP] about those statues and monuments? Seriously. Dig deep down within yourselves and think of the last time your heart swelled with pride over a monument to a confederate soldier. Why do we need reminders of a time when our country was divided and represented by the losing side who fought for an abhorred cause? Removing these statues also removes a long simmering grievance and casts our city in a more tolerant light. Having monuments to the confederacy certainly isn't a corporate and tourism selling point.
Because its not MUH Merica!
(06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
I kind of thought one gave up the right to be called "American" when they took up arms against their own country.
(06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
Not sad at all.
Our American history is rich with many things that will continue to be taught to the next generation. Including the Civil War.
We aren't going to stop teaching it.
In fact, we should do a
better job of teaching it more completely so that those next generations are better at making decisions about exactly who and/or what would make a proper monument in front of city hall.
Maybe they won't be tempted to erect a statue that exists as a symbol of oppression to 30% of the community where it stands.
My maternal family tree leads directly to men who died fighting for the confederacy. I don't need that statue to honor them - ESPECIALLY when it affects so many others so negatively.
(06-09-2020, 02:57 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
I kind of thought one gave up the right to be called "American" when they took up arms against their own country.
One man's traitor is another man's revolutionary.
(06-09-2020, 02:01 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]When are the rest of the Democrat statues coming down?
All I know is that there's a metric [BLEEP] load of "Robert Byrd" named [BLEEP] that needs to be renamed.
(06-09-2020, 02:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
Obviously you don't know your history about Robert E. Lee.
I'm not saying the man never did anything nice.
There are contexts where he's remembered positively. I understand they study his battle plans at West Point alongside Rommel, Bonaparte, and even Hannibal, as they should. And I understand he's a hero of the Mexican-American war as well.
But outside the context of military education, is there anything we remember Lee for that wasn't an effort to prolong or whitewash the enslavement of Americans?
Robert E. Lee was a hero in the Mexican/American war. He was reluctant to join the confederacy and only did so because that was what his home state chose to do. In fact, he was very much against secession.
(06-09-2020, 02:57 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
I kind of thought one gave up the right to be called "American" when they took up arms against their own country.
Did Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull give up their "right" to be called American when they took up arms against the U.S. military? Was their fight honorable or treasonous? Should we remove monuments to them since they took up arms against the U.S.?
(06-09-2020, 03:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
Not sad at all.
Our American history is rich with many things that will continue to be taught to the next generation. Including the Civil War.
We aren't going to stop teaching it.
In fact, we should do a better job of teaching it more completely so that those next generations are better at making decisions about exactly who and/or what would make a proper monument in front of city hall.
Maybe they won't be tempted to erect a statue that exists as a symbol of oppression to 30% of the community where it stands.
My maternal family tree leads directly to men who died fighting for the confederacy. I don't need that statue to honor them - ESPECIALLY when it affects so many others so negatively.
I disagree. It wasn't until perhaps 10 years or so ago that the monuments, school names, etc. were deemed "offensive" or "repressive". We are told by those on the left that there should be an "open and honest" dialog about black history. What better way to start a conversation than to have someone ask the question as to why a piece of art 100+ years old is displayed where it is?
Much like the definition of "hate speech" the definition of a "proper monument" is purely subjective.
(06-09-2020, 03:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-09-2020, 02:01 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]When are the rest of the Democrat statues coming down?
All I know is that there's a metric [BLEEP] load of "Robert Byrd" named [BLEEP] that needs to be renamed.
That's next.
Let's finish this job first.
Meh. On the fence. If I actually thought it stop the narrative, I would be cool with it. I don't, though. There will always be some injustice to attack, real or perceived.
(06-09-2020, 03:57 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 02:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying the man never did anything nice.
There are contexts where he's remembered positively. I understand they study his battle plans at West Point alongside Rommel, Bonaparte, and even Hannibal, as they should. And I understand he's a hero of the Mexican-American war as well.
But outside the context of military education, is there anything we remember Lee for that wasn't an effort to prolong or whitewash the enslavement of Americans?
Robert E. Lee was a hero in the Mexican/American war. He was reluctant to join the confederacy and only did so because that was what his home state chose to do. In fact, he was very much against secession.
(06-09-2020, 03:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Not sad at all.
Our American history is rich with many things that will continue to be taught to the next generation. Including the Civil War.
We aren't going to stop teaching it.
In fact, we should do a better job of teaching it more completely so that those next generations are better at making decisions about exactly who and/or what would make a proper monument in front of city hall.
Maybe they won't be tempted to erect a statue that exists as a symbol of oppression to 30% of the community where it stands.
My maternal family tree leads directly to men who died fighting for the confederacy. I don't need that statue to honor them - ESPECIALLY when it affects so many others so negatively.
I disagree. It wasn't until perhaps 10 years or so ago that the monuments, school names, etc. were deemed "offensive" or "repressive". We are told by those on the left that there should be an "open and honest" dialog about black history. What better way to start a conversation than to have someone ask the question as to why a piece of art 100+ years old is displayed where it is?
Much like the definition of "hate speech" the definition of a "proper monument" is purely subjective.
It was placed four to six decades after the civil War as part of a whole of government effort to roll back the rights and status that black people had won during Reconstruction, to erase not only the gains themselves but also the memory of those gains.
And Robert E Lee may have opposed seccession, but he also wholeheartedly supported slavery. He rubbed salt into the wounds of the slaves he whipped theb wrote eloquent letters to his family about how it was God's will that they be "educated" this way. His explanation for not wanting Virginia to secede but then fighting to defend her when she did was similarly strained and hypocritical, I'm sure.
(06-09-2020, 11:19 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 11:15 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]But will your grand kids?
Something tells me his grandchildren will have a more accurate knowledge of history than yours.
"Grandpa, why do these knee pads have MAGA stitched on them?"
I can pretty much guarantee there are no MAGA knee pads. Those are for you.
(06-09-2020, 12:27 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]How did they get approval to tear this down so quickly? The thing is older than the houses downtown and God forbid you try to change something on those homes the paperwork can't get done that fast.
I'd like to know that myself. Love how they take them out in the middle of the night, without any discussion. I guess the loudest voices are the only ones they can hear right now.
(06-09-2020, 01:53 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty sad that a monument to American soldiers that has been in the spot well over 100 years is taken down to appease a few. Like it or not The Civil War is a part of our history.
(06-09-2020, 12:47 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Andrew Jackson played no role in the Confederacy or the civil War, so...
I mean yes the Trail of Tears was a genocide that Georgia's armed forces started and Andrew Jackson finished.
But, unlike Robert E Lee or Nathaniel Forrest, Jackson also did good things and is often remembered for those.
Obviously you don't know your history about Robert E. Lee.
Move them all out to Olustee, where a Civil War battle is reenacted every year. Of course I'm sure the left will want that flattened and turned into low income housing.
(06-09-2020, 03:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 02:57 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]I kind of thought one gave up the right to be called "American" when they took up arms against their own country.
One man's traitor is another man's revolutionary.
So by your logic Crazy Horse was a traitor?
(06-09-2020, 03:58 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 03:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]
All I know is that there's a metric [BLEEP] load of "Robert Byrd" named [BLEEP] that needs to be renamed.
That's next.
Let's finish this job first.
What exactly is "this job"? Erase and deny a part of our history in order to appease a few?
(06-09-2020, 04:01 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 03:57 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Robert E. Lee was a hero in the Mexican/American war. He was reluctant to join the confederacy and only did so because that was what his home state chose to do. In fact, he was very much against secession.
I disagree. It wasn't until perhaps 10 years or so ago that the monuments, school names, etc. were deemed "offensive" or "repressive". We are told by those on the left that there should be an "open and honest" dialog about black history. What better way to start a conversation than to have someone ask the question as to why a piece of art 100+ years old is displayed where it is?
Much like the definition of "hate speech" the definition of a "proper monument" is purely subjective.
It was placed four to six decades after the civil War as part of a whole of government effort to roll back the rights and status that black people had won during Reconstruction, to erase not only the gains themselves but also the memory of those gains.
And Robert E Lee may have opposed seccession, but he also wholeheartedly supported slavery. He rubbed salt into the wounds of the slaves he whipped theb wrote eloquent letters to his family about how it was God's will that they be "educated" this way. His explanation for not wanting Virginia to secede but then fighting to defend her when she did was similarly strained and hypocritical, I'm sure.
You may want to check your math on that. It was a little over 30 years and it was donated by a Civil War vet.
I just hope they rename the plaza to Bumville or some [BLEEP]. Would be more appropriate.
(06-09-2020, 04:05 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 03:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]One man's traitor is another man's revolutionary.
So by your logic Crazy Horse was a traitor?
(06-09-2020, 03:58 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's next.
Let's finish this job first.
What exactly is "this job"? Erase and deny a part of our history in order to appease a few?
No, Crazy Horse falls under the "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" saying.
(06-09-2020, 04:05 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 03:46 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]One man's traitor is another man's revolutionary.
So by your logic Crazy Horse was a traitor?
(06-09-2020, 03:58 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's next.
Let's finish this job first.
What exactly is "this job"? Erase and deny a part of our history in order to appease a few?
This job is removing the names and likenesses of Confederate generals from places of honor, especially on public property.
As others in this thread have tried to teach you, we are obligated to do this because we have read and understood the relevant primary sources of history. Others have denied the dark depths of Lee's means motives. We neither deny nor erase anything about him.
(06-09-2020, 04:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2020, 04:05 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]So by your logic Crazy Horse was a traitor?
What exactly is "this job"? Erase and deny a part of our history in order to appease a few?
No, Crazy Horse falls under the "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" saying.
While wearing their chicest Che Guevara shirt and tiktokin on the iphone
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