(08-08-2020, 05:30 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2020, 01:38 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]City names are frequently historical in nature and statues are monuments to people or events considered significant, occasionally currently, more often at a previous point in time. Taking down a statue does not erase history, but it does eliminate a specific memory of it. For some, a marker representing the country's darkest hour is far more important than one celebrating the best of times. Memories of adverse times and events in our nation's history need not be eliminated, instead they can serve to illustrate our progression and remind us to continue.
I don't necessarily disagree with renaming schools, but that is not my decision to make and there is no objective way to measure "deserving".
While you may believe targeting Andrew Jackson is going to far, other may feel that's not far enough and therein lies the real problem........if you start, where do you stop? There is a group on the left that will never be satisfied. If we give in to a statue today, what happens tomorrow when they demand the twenty dollar bill?
So we shouldn’t change anything because we might not be able to stop?
I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
(08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2020, 05:30 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So we shouldn’t change anything because we might not be able to stop?
I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
So if a liberal has a decent idea you would reject it out of hand because you think they might have an agenda that you don't like?
Wouldn't that kind of attitude lead to both sides, liberals and conservatives, rejecting any idea that comes from "the other side?"
Should liberals, for example, reject the idea of any cut to the federal budget, because they think it would eventually lead to more cuts than they wanted?
It seems like you have proposed a formula for gridlock, where any good idea is rejected because it might lead to a bad idea.
(08-09-2020, 06:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
So if a liberal has a decent idea you would reject it out of hand because you think they might have an agenda that you don't like?
Wouldn't that kind of attitude lead to both sides, liberals and conservatives, rejecting any idea that comes from "the other side?"
Should liberals, for example, reject the idea of any cut to the federal budget, because they think it would eventually lead to more cuts than they wanted?
It seems like you have proposed a formula for gridlock, where any good idea is rejected because it might lead to a bad idea.
Gridlock would be the best thing we can hope for from Congress.
(08-09-2020, 06:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
So if a liberal has a decent idea you would reject it out of hand because you think they might have an agenda that you don't like?
That isn't what I said at all. Read my words without bias.
For example, I'd love to see everyone in the country have access to medical care, but don't demand it without a clue where the funding will come from.
(08-09-2020, 10:40 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So if a liberal has a decent idea you would reject it out of hand because you think they might have an agenda that you don't like?
That isn't what I said at all. Read my words without bias.
For example, I'd love to see everyone in the country have access to medical care, but don't demand it without a clue where the funding will come from.
Everyone has access the same as they have access to food, water, shelter, a car, a cell phone and anything else they purchase. You are promoting something else entirely.
(08-09-2020, 06:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
So if a liberal has a decent idea you would reject it out of hand because you think they might have an agenda that you don't like?
Wouldn't that kind of attitude lead to both sides, liberals and conservatives, rejecting any idea that comes from "the other side?"
Should liberals, for example, reject the idea of any cut to the federal budget, because they think it would eventually lead to more cuts than they wanted?
It seems like you have proposed a formula for gridlock, where any good idea is rejected because it might lead to a bad idea.
Marty for gosh sakes read what he said!
(08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-08-2020, 05:30 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So we shouldn’t change anything because we might not be able to stop?
I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
I think that's a dumb rubric.
You might have a group of 10 voters who all want the same thing, but five of them say they demand it and five of them say they request it.
Is that a demand, or a request?
(08-09-2020, 06:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
I think that's a dumb rubric.
You might have a group of 10 voters who all want the same thing, but five of them say they demand it and five of them say they request it.
Is that a demand, or a request?
Which 5 do you invite to your office? Also you substituted protestor and rioter to voter. None of the 3 are necessarily the same.
(08-09-2020, 06:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:34 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not necessarily opposed to all change, but the true agenda of the party/group/movement wanting the change is a HUGE factor in the decision.
A reasonable request deserves consideration. A demand, on the other hand, deserves nothing.
I think that's a dumb rubric.
You might have a group of 10 voters who all want the same thing, but five of them say they demand it and five of them say they request it.
Is that a demand, or a request?
LOL. I'll do the math for you. That's not a group of ten, that's two groups of five.
To answer the actual question presented (though the underlying premise is incorrect), one of each.
(08-09-2020, 07:59 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (08-09-2020, 06:16 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I think that's a dumb rubric.
You might have a group of 10 voters who all want the same thing, but five of them say they demand it and five of them say they request it.
Is that a demand, or a request?
LOL. I'll do the math for you. That's not a group of ten, that's two groups of five.
To answer the actual question presented (though the underlying premise is incorrect), one of each.
That's a perfectly fine answer.
so you ignore the demanders, and meet with the requesters.
Suppose you decide to grant the request.
Won't that make the demanders happy?
What are you even talking about? Every thread we end up chasing one of your stupid rabbit trails.
(08-09-2020, 08:45 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]What are you even talking about? Every thread we end up chasing one of your stupid rabbit trails.
I'm also wondering what Sneakers is talking about. It's why I asked.
I hate all democrats, period. They are the ugliest people on the planet and perhaps the most ignorant. #trump2020
I don't hate all Democrats, just the extreme Left that's driving the Party. I don't hate all Republicans, just the extreme Right who everyone in the MSM like to claim is all Republicans. Most Democrats are actually moderates who like the system that FDR and LBJ installed but aren't really down with the full blown extremist collectivism that the Party is lurching towards. Most Republicans are actually moderates who find themselves being pulled further and further to the left by the Party Establishment who are mostly swamp creatures at this point.
I like the way Trump handles these people, I just wish he presented more like Kennedy, Reagan, or Obama.
(08-10-2020, 11:33 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't hate all Democrats, just the extreme Left that's driving the Party. I don't hate all Republicans, just the extreme Right who everyone in the MSM like to claim is all Republicans. Most Democrats are actually moderates who like the system that FDR and LBJ installed but aren't really down with the full blown extremist collectivism that the Party is lurching towards. Most Republicans are actually moderates who find themselves being pulled further and further to the left by the Party Establishment who are mostly swamp creatures at this point.
I like the way Trump handles these people, I just wish he presented more like Kennedy, Reagan, or Obama.
Joe Biden and Obama are barely even left and the dems flat out rejected the progressive side of the party. In fact they're doing everything in their power to remove the progressive elements to move closer to the center. Even AOC shifted her position once she saw bernies side of things being crushed
(08-11-2020, 12:33 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2020, 11:33 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't hate all Democrats, just the extreme Left that's driving the Party. I don't hate all Republicans, just the extreme Right who everyone in the MSM like to claim is all Republicans. Most Democrats are actually moderates who like the system that FDR and LBJ installed but aren't really down with the full blown extremist collectivism that the Party is lurching towards. Most Republicans are actually moderates who find themselves being pulled further and further to the left by the Party Establishment who are mostly swamp creatures at this point.
I like the way Trump handles these people, I just wish he presented more like Kennedy, Reagan, or Obama.
Joe Biden and Obama are barely even left and the dems flat out rejected the progressive side of the party. In fact they're doing everything in their power to remove the progressive elements to move closer to the center. Even AOC shifted her position once she saw bernies side of things being crushed
Is that why she's nominating Bernie at the Democratic convention?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-pri...appearance
(08-11-2020, 08:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2020, 12:33 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Joe Biden and Obama are barely even left and the dems flat out rejected the progressive side of the party. In fact they're doing everything in their power to remove the progressive elements to move closer to the center. Even AOC shifted her position once she saw bernies side of things being crushed
Is that why she's nominating Bernie at the Democratic convention?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-pri...appearance
You're going to damage his faith in the Amercan media that way.
(08-11-2020, 08:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2020, 12:33 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Joe Biden and Obama are barely even left and the dems flat out rejected the progressive side of the party. In fact they're doing everything in their power to remove the progressive elements to move closer to the center. Even AOC shifted her position once she saw bernies side of things being crushed
Is that why she's nominating Bernie at the Democratic convention?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-pri...appearance
i don't know if you noticed but it was a pretty big deal when she didn't back bernie when it mattered. then openly critiqued him, fired most of her progessive staffers too.
As someone who's cosplaying as a politican shes going to try do the both sides thing all the way to a nomination in 2024/2028 but pretty clear shift from far left to...closer to center but still left.
(08-11-2020, 05:27 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2020, 08:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Is that why she's nominating Bernie at the Democratic convention?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aoc-pri...appearance
i don't know if you noticed but it was a pretty big deal when she didn't back bernie when it mattered. then openly critiqued him, fired most of her progessive staffers too.
As someone who's cosplaying as a politican shes going to try do the both sides thing all the way to a nomination in 2024/2028 but pretty clear shift from far left to...closer to center but still left.
AOC played her hand too soon. There is no doubt, by anyone, where her allegiances lie. Unless this country takes a hard lurch left, she has forever poisoned her well.
(08-11-2020, 06:56 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2020, 05:27 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]i don't know if you noticed but it was a pretty big deal when she didn't back bernie when it mattered. then openly critiqued him, fired most of her progessive staffers too.
As someone who's cosplaying as a politican shes going to try do the both sides thing all the way to a nomination in 2024/2028 but pretty clear shift from far left to...closer to center but still left.
AOC played her hand too soon. There is no doubt, by anyone, where her allegiances lie. Unless this country takes a hard lurch left, she has forever poisoned her well.
I wouldn't say she poisoned her well, all she's looking for is to be the girl boss candidate of the democrats in 2024/2028/. Just likely needs to move more center to get it