Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

The problem with the underneath coverage is Poz, Skuta, and Cyp cover almost no ground and couldnt make a play on the ball if their life depended on it. Ramsey, House, Prince, Gipson etc are much better playmakers but the CBs just jam and/or bail out to the deep thirds where QBs don't throw as often. As a result, smart QBs pick apart the underneath coverage where there is virtually zero chance of tight coverage or danger of an interception unless they accidentally throw at Telvin.

Quote:Thing is, mostly everyone is blaming the scheme. Simple fact is...we don't run this scheme 100% the entire game. In general, this hybrid 4-3/3-4 scheme is supposed to make it difficult to beat downfield (two corners and one safety each getting a third of the field). That's 3 of 11 players.

 

Most of the time, we rush 4. This should, essentially give us four players to cover the underneath (3 LBs and the SS). Schematically, its fine. There's protection for deep throws and enough guys to cover underneath. The problem has been with execution. One is we don't get enough pass rush from the front four, so it gives the QB more time to find holes in the defense (and there will be holes, which is true for any defense). When we have to send a 5th person to blitz, we usually don't hit home. Which means there's less players to cover the underneath (this becomes a bigger problem then).

 

From the first two games, there's been a couple of problems IMO. 

 

There's miscommunication in coverage. I don't know if its Poz, Skuta, Cyp, or Gipson. But almost all of the big play/TD that was posted on the site so far, there's always that one player (sometimes two) where we look at it and ask "Well, what is he doing here?" Something just doesn't look right if you look at where everyone is lined up and what/who they are covering. Blown coverages.

 

There's also another problem which I think has been kind of quietly overlooked given the other issues: 

 

I don't think Senn is playing all that well. I think teams have been able to double Malik, and leave Senn (or whoever is lined up at DT) and the two young DEs one-on-one. I don't think we've been able to collapse the pocket from the inside much.

 

This is all coming from me watching the game and without the benefit of All-22. But from what I'm seeing, other than Roy on obvious run-downs inside, I think that spot has been a problem the past two games.

 

It's both.  It's player/their mistakes.  

 

And it's scheme.

 

Anytime a QB (I don't care if it's Rivers or not) is able do identify mismatches as easily as he did Sunday and exploit them you really HAVE to put some fault on the scheme.

 

I don't have any doubt this scheme can be run effectively, we've seen it done, but even Seattle gets picked apart by smart QBs and coordinators on the underneath routes. 

 

It's a weakness. 

Quote:Its a scheme that every team in the league knows how to beat fairly easily. Its probably the simplest scheme in the NFL , its effective in Seattle because they have multiple all pros at a few spots. While yes the execution isn't there , the players are being put in bad spots due to the scheme.

 

This, it's actually quite simple, any "zone based scheme" (cover 2, Tampa 2, cover 3) is going to get picked apart by the most average of QB's if you can't get home with 4, you don't necessarily have to "rack up sacks" but it's important to at least effect the QB, make him uncomfortable and force the ball to come out quick. The Jaguars don't have the personnel on the defensive line to run Gus's "scheme" effectively, it renders it useless if you can't effect the QB with 4 down linemen. Gus is simply too stubborn and lacks the requisite creativity to do anything different, the Jaguars (because of it's lack of pass rushers) are better off playing a defensive scheme similar to Arizona, James Bettcher (Cardinals d-coordinator) recognized his defenses inefficiencies last year in the pass rush department, so he decided to adjust. First by bringing more SPEED to the field by (unorthodoxically) moving their young SS (Deon Buccannon) into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role, he then decided to play man PRESS coverage across the board while blitzing on obvious passing situations.

 

This move has played huge dividends as its successfully masked their pass rush ineffectiveness, the Jaguars defense is actually built similar to the Cardinals in terms of personnel. Both teams are usually stout against the run (this creates more 3rd and longs), both have good secondaries, and both teams have the required defensive speed (although the Jaguars for some reason refuse to utilize one of its best defensive weapons by keeping Myles Jack on the bench) to disrupt the timing of opposing offenses. When the Jaguars failed to add a veteran edge rusher this off-season, Gus should've immediately adjusted his scheme to fit it's personnel, they're essentially relying on 2 rookies to bring pressure off the edge, history tells us that this strategy is all for naught as rookie edge rushers RARELY generate consistent pressure.

 

This won't happen, but I'd like to see Jonathan Cyrpien moved into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role similar to Deon Buccanon, our starting linebackers should be Telvin, Cyrpien, and Jack (that's a fast core). On obvious passing situations we should play man press coverage across the board while blitzing, forcing the QB to get rid of the ball QUICK.  Davon House, Prince, Jalen, (and when he eventually returns) Aaron Colvin is an impressive and deep group of corners, all of those guys have the ability to hold up in coverage for 2-3 seconds. We need to get exotic in our blitz packages which should free up Yannick, Dante, and Malik, or at a minimum give them one on one pass rush opportunities. The Jaguars have 3 Swiss army knives on its defense in Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack, and Dante Fowler, I'm willing bet most D-coordinators would salivate at the opportunity to maximize the skill-set of all these players, it's a shame we have a guy in Gus Bradley that doesn't possess the creativity to utilize these players all at once. This defensive scheme that I'm suggesting isn't perfect, but (imo) its better solution than what we have right now, this defense needs more speed and needs to be more aggressive in its "attempts" to effect opposing QB's.

Guys, this scheme takes time.

Give guys and Dave some time to find some guys that really fit this exotic scheme. Then, watch out NFL!!

Quote:Lol at Gipson

 

Speaking of Gipson. I find it so interesting that in Cleveland, [BLEEP] CLEVELAND, can make this guy look great but Gus Badley can't even make this guy look average. 

Quote:This, it's actually quite simple, any "zone based scheme" (cover 2, Tampa 2, cover 3) is going to get picked apart by the most average of QB's if you can't get home with 4, you don't necessarily have to "rack up sacks" but it's important to at least effect the QB, make him uncomfortable and force the ball to come out quick. The Jaguars don't have the personnel on the defensive line to run Gus's "scheme" effectively, it renders it useless if you can't effect the QB with 4 down linemen. Gus is simply too stubborn and lacks the requisite creativity to do anything different, the Jaguars (because of it's lack of pass rushers) are better off playing a defensive scheme similar to Arizona, James Bettcher (Cardinals d-coordinator) recognized his defenses inefficiencies last year in the pass rush department, so he decided to adjust. First by bringing more SPEED to the field by (unorthodoxically) moving their young SS (Deon Buccannon) into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role, he then decided to play man PRESS coverage across the board while blitzing on obvious passing situations.

 

This move has played huge dividends as its successfully masked their pass rush ineffectiveness, the Jaguars defense is actually built similar to the Cardinals in terms of personnel. Both teams are usually stout against the run (this creates more 3rd and longs), both have good secondaries, and both teams have the required defensive speed (although the Jaguars for some reason refuse to utilize one of its best defensive weapons by keeping Myles Jack on the bench) to disrupt the timing of opposing offenses. When the Jaguars failed to add a veteran edge rusher this off-season, Gus should've immediately adjusted his scheme to fit it's personnel, they're essentially relying on 2 rookies to bring pressure off the edge, history tells us that this strategy is all for naught as rookie edge rushers RARELY generate consistent pressure.

 

This won't happen, but I'd like to see Jonathan Cyrpien moved into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role similar to Deon Buccanon, our starting linebackers should be Telvin, Cyrpien, and Jack (that's a fast core). On obvious passing situations we should play man press coverage across the board while blitzing, forcing the QB to get rid of the ball QUICK.  Davon House, Prince, Jalen, (and when he eventually returns) Aaron Colvin is an impressive and deep group of corners, all of those guys have the ability to hold up in coverage for 2-3 seconds. We need to get exotic in our blitz packages which should free up Yannick, Dante, and Malik, or at a minimum give them one on one pass rush opportunities. The Jaguars have 3 Swiss army knives on its defense in Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack, and Dante Fowler, I'm willing bet most D-coordinators would salivate at the opportunity to maximize the skill-set of all these players, it's a shame we have a guy in Gus Bradley that doesn't possess the creativity to utilize these players all at once. This defensive scheme that I'm suggesting isn't perfect, but (imo) its better solution than what we have right now, this defense needs more speed and needs to be more aggressive in its "attempts" to effect opposing QB's.

 

Can we hire this guy as our defensive coordinator? That all made sense to me...ME of all people...

 

/faints

Quote:Can we hire this guy as our defensive coordinator? That all made sense to me...ME of all people...


/faints

They also have a great head coach that hires other good coaches. Arians might be old, but man, is he creative.

Quote:Can we hire this guy as our defensive coordinator? That all made sense to me...ME of all people...

 

/faints

 

Haha, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use what you have. Gus Bradley is trying to make cheese burgers with pizza dough, marinara sauce, and pepperoni, just make a pepperoni pizza Gus!

Quote:They also have a great head coach that hires other good coaches. Arians might be old, but man, is he creative.

 

It's shame we allowed him to get out of our division, I think when it's all said and done Arians (along with Mike Zimmer) will go down as all time great coaches, they get the most out of what they have. Bruce is an aggressive (no nonsense) old school coach, Arizona is aggressive on offense with the vertical pass game and aggressive on defense in their press man blitz packages. The goal should always be to stress your opponent, Gus Bradley talks about being "aggressive" but has no idea what it means, Bradley's "aggression" is rushing an ineffective 4 down-linemen giving the opposing QB's eon's in the pocket. Bradley's post-halftime speech last week against San Diego sum's up his tenure here in Jacksonville perfectly, he stated "we need to get back to what we are" on offense, the Jags offense proceeded to run the ball on first and second down, picking up a combined 3 yards in the process, eventually going 3 and out.

Quote:smart stuff

Hire this man!

Quote: 

This won't happen, but I'd like to see Jonathan Cyrpien moved into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role similar to Deon Buccanon, our starting linebackers should be Telvin, Cyrpien, and Jack (that's a fast core). On obvious passing situations we should play man press coverage across the board while blitzing, forcing the QB to get rid of the ball QUICK.  Davon House, Prince, Jalen, (and when he eventually returns) Aaron Colvin is an impressive and deep group of corners, all of those guys have the ability to hold up in coverage for 2-3 seconds. We need to get exotic in our blitz packages which should free up Yannick, Dante, and Malik, or at a minimum give them one on one pass rush opportunities. The Jaguars have 3 Swiss army knives on its defense in Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack, and Dante Fowler, I'm willing bet most D-coordinators would salivate at the opportunity to maximize the skill-set of all these players, it's a shame we have a guy in Gus Bradley that doesn't possess the creativity to utilize these players all at once. This defensive scheme that I'm suggesting isn't perfect, but (imo) its better solution than what we have right now, this defense needs more speed and needs to be more aggressive in its "attempts" to effect opposing QB's.

 

I haven't watched and certainly read up much on the Cardinals to get detailed breakdown of their personnel and scheme. But I'm not sure I understand what you're advocating here.

 

You said our linebackers will be Telvin/Jack/Cyp (in his hybrid mike/SS role). What does the rest of the lineup look like? 

Bradley said a few times "we're an 8-man front defense."


If that's the case I'd love to hear his or Wash's explanation on how we were run on so easily.

Quote:I haven't watched and certainly read up much on the Cardinals to get detailed breakdown of their personnel and scheme. But I'm not sure I understand what you're advocating here.

 

You said our linebackers will be Telvin/Jack/Cyp (in his hybrid mike/SS role). What does the rest of the lineup look like? 

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nf.../77243356/

 

Here's an article explaining the package I was referring too, they call it the "speed package"

Eventually...

 



 

Eventually this will happen this season... that is how coach Gussy works. Can you imagine the breadstick order if this happens this week? 

Just say no to the Leo, Larry, Curly, Moe, and Otto.

Quote:Eventually...

 



 

Eventually this will happen this season against Denver (again)... that is how coach Gussy works. Can you imagine the breadstick order if this happens this week? 

 

FTFY.

 

No hate though, that was a good play by old Poz.

Quote:http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nf.../77243356/

 

Here's an article explaining the package I was referring too, they call it the "speed package"

 

I saw that after reading your post. That's a sub package on obvious passing situations.

 

Here's the big plays from Sunday:

 

21 yard run (2nd and 8)

23 yard run (1st and 10)

12 yard pass (3rd and 7)

6 yard TD pass (1st and goal at the 6) * this is the Benjamin dig 

 

43 yard pass (1st and 10)

2 yard pass TD (1st and goal at 2) *they got 1st and goal at 2 thanks to Odrick's dumb penalty on 4th and 1

 

Next possession nothing of note. Chargers got short field, Yannick forced fumble after some penalties by the Chargers that backed them off from having the ball at the 1.

 

Fowler sack, Ramsey tackle on screen, short pass on 3rd and 13.

 

 

44 yard pass (3rd and 12) *Tyrell Williams crossing

 

Next possession, stops on 1st/2nd down. Sack by Fowler on 3rd down to force punt

 

45 yard pass (2nd and 8) *Benjamin fly vs. House. This happened right after Odrick's meltdown

 

So what does this tell us?

 

Looking at the play-by-play, except for one play (the Tyrell Williams which was a blown coverage/misalignment/bad scheme, however you want to classify it) every single one of San Diego's big play came against non-obvious pass situations.

 

1st and goal at the 6. 1st and goal at the 2. 2nd and 8.

 

The first two would likely be base or even heavy package given the down and distance. The 2nd and 8 was after a meltdown by one of our players and wasn't really a scheme or blown coverage issue...their guy beat our guy one-on-one.

 

So while some sort of speed package would be fun to implement (and this may happen once Colvin comes back given Jalen and Aaron's ability to blitz/cover from the nickel spot), it would not have fixed the problems we had vs. the Chargers.

 

Honestly, looking at the play-by-plays, other than the first possession when they really ran it down our throats, the defense played 'OK'. But inopportune penalties (Odrick guilty of two of them), blown coverages, and a few glaring mistakes really doomed us.

 

I expect these glaring coverage mistakes to be fixed as this defense gels (keep in mind how many new players we have starting/playing meaningul minutes).

Should also be noted that this is the first time Wash has been calling plays in the NFL. Not an easy thing to get the hang of right off the bat.

Quote:This, it's actually quite simple, any "zone based scheme" (cover 2, Tampa 2, cover 3) is going to get picked apart by the most average of QB's if you can't get home with 4, you don't necessarily have to "rack up sacks" but it's important to at least effect the QB, make him uncomfortable and force the ball to come out quick. The Jaguars don't have the personnel on the defensive line to run Gus's "scheme" effectively, it renders it useless if you can't effect the QB with 4 down linemen. Gus is simply too stubborn and lacks the requisite creativity to do anything different, the Jaguars (because of it's lack of pass rushers) are better off playing a defensive scheme similar to Arizona, James Bettcher (Cardinals d-coordinator) recognized his defenses inefficiencies last year in the pass rush department, so he decided to adjust. First by bringing more SPEED to the field by (unorthodoxically) moving their young SS (Deon Buccannon) into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role, he then decided to play man PRESS coverage across the board while blitzing on obvious passing situations.


This move has played huge dividends as its successfully masked their pass rush ineffectiveness, the Jaguars defense is actually built similar to the Cardinals in terms of personnel. Both teams are usually stout against the run (this creates more 3rd and longs), both have good secondaries, and both teams have the required defensive speed (although the Jaguars for some reason refuse to utilize one of its best defensive weapons by keeping Myles Jack on the bench) to disrupt the timing of opposing offenses. When the Jaguars failed to add a veteran edge rusher this off-season, Gus should've immediately adjusted his scheme to fit it's personnel, they're essentially relying on 2 rookies to bring pressure off the edge, history tells us that this strategy is all for naught as rookie edge rushers RARELY generate consistent pressure.


This won't happen, but I'd like to see Jonathan Cyrpien moved into a hybrid Mike-linebacker role similar to Deon Buccanon, our starting linebackers should be Telvin, Cyrpien, and Jack (that's a fast core). On obvious passing situations we should play man press coverage across the board while blitzing, forcing the QB to get rid of the ball QUICK. Davon House, Prince, Jalen, (and when he eventually returns) Aaron Colvin is an impressive and deep group of corners, all of those guys have the ability to hold up in coverage for 2-3 seconds. We need to get exotic in our blitz packages which should free up Yannick, Dante, and Malik, or at a minimum give them one on one pass rush opportunities. The Jaguars have 3 Swiss army knives on its defense in Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack, and Dante Fowler, I'm willing bet most D-coordinators would salivate at the opportunity to maximize the skill-set of all these players, it's a shame we have a guy in Gus Bradley that doesn't possess the creativity to utilize these players all at once. This defensive scheme that I'm suggesting isn't perfect, but (imo) its better solution than what we have right now, this defense needs more speed and needs to be more aggressive in its "attempts" to effect opposing QB's.

Great assessment and explanation. #hirethisman

Gus is either to dumb or stubborn to make the necessary adjustments. Obviously this scheme isn't working. Hasn't worked for 3 years. I dont understand why we wont change it