25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions seems kind of thin to me. I would expect something like 34/18. It's 17 games. It seems like any QB who starts 17 games would get 25 TDs without much effort. I think we'll be a lot more aggressive than that.
(07-07-2021, 04:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions seems kind of thin to me. I would expect something like 34/18. It's 17 games. It seems like any QB who starts 17 games would get 25 TDs without much effort. I think we'll be a lot more aggressive than that.
You may be right. Then again, Meyer may prefer to finish off drives with the running game whenever possible rather than have his rookie QB shoulder the weight.
(07-08-2021, 11:53 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (07-07-2021, 04:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions seems kind of thin to me. I would expect something like 34/18. It's 17 games. It seems like any QB who starts 17 games would get 25 TDs without much effort. I think we'll be a lot more aggressive than that.
You may be right. Then again, Meyer may prefer to finish off drives with the running game whenever possible rather than have his rookie QB shoulder the weight.
@...or pull TLaw in favor of some short yardage/jump pass specialist on the roster@
Minshew had 21 td and 6 int in his rookie year so something better than this would be even more nice.
Absolutely correct. I would pound the ball and then pound the ball some more. EVERY defense is going to be gunning for Tlaw. Protect him by RUNNING THE DAMN BALL
(07-08-2021, 02:46 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely correct. I would pound the ball and then pound the ball some more. EVERY defense is going to be gunning for Tlaw. Protect him by RUNNING THE DAMN BALL
I like this approach.
Under normal circumstances, I'd favor a run oriented approach.
Add in the fact we have a rookie QB behind a shaky OL, to me it's a no brainer.
(07-08-2021, 03:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-08-2021, 02:46 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely correct. I would pound the ball and then pound the ball some more. EVERY defense is going to be gunning for Tlaw. Protect him by RUNNING THE DAMN BALL
I like this approach.
Under normal circumstances, I'd favor a run oriented approach.
Add in the fact we have a rookie QB behind a shaky OL, to me it's a no brainer.
Even though we have weapons at WR, i agree with you. D's always want a shot at a rokie QB and especially with the hype around Lawrence. Keeping him upright and healthy is so important. Robinsin showed he can carry the workload last season and adding Etienne and Hyde gives us a good rotation of guys to wear D's down with.
The good thing about having a proper QB is teams wont stack the box against us. We may have to earn that right but if we can get the run going and hurt teams with PA or deep balls then we could have a really nice O.
The main worry is what the D will be like. Last year they couldnt stop much which made us a pass first team just to try and keep up.
Just curious to poll the group. Do you feel that our offense in 2021 is worse than the Chargers 2020 group? I agree their defense is/ was better, but I would think our offense is actually more talented around the rookie QB than their's was.
(07-09-2021, 09:21 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious to poll the group. Do you feel that our offense in 2021 is worse than the Chargers 2020 group? I agree their defense is/ was better, but I would think our offense is actually more talented around the rookie QB than their's was.
Great question. Depth wise, I think the Jags may have them but top end talent, Chargers win that one.
Keenan Allen is better than any WR the Jags have. Hunter Henry is absolutely better than any TE the Jags have and Eckler is one of the best receiving backs in the league.
(07-09-2021, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 09:21 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious to poll the group. Do you feel that our offense in 2021 is worse than the Chargers 2020 group? I agree their defense is/ was better, but I would think our offense is actually more talented around the rookie QB than their's was.
Great question. Depth wise, I think the Jags may have them but top end talent, Chargers win that one.
Keenan Allen is better than any WR the Jags have. Hunter Henry is absolutely better than any TE the Jags have and Eckler is one of the best receiving backs in the league.
Without a doubt the chargers have talented offensive pieces, but if Etienne isn't at least as good as Ekeler, an undrafted free agent in 2017 with less than 1000 combined rushing and receiving yards last year, then Meyer should be publicly flogged.
Not to mention Lawrence should be a much better QB than Herbert based on talent, so having a season in that Herbert 2020 kind of area should be the Lawrence expectation.
(07-09-2021, 09:58 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Great question. Depth wise, I think the Jags may have them but top end talent, Chargers win that one.
Keenan Allen is better than any WR the Jags have. Hunter Henry is absolutely better than any TE the Jags have and Eckler is one of the best receiving backs in the league.
Without a doubt the chargers have talented offensive pieces, but if Etienne isn't at least as good as Ekeler, an undrafted free agent in 2017 with less than 1000 combined rushing and receiving yards last year, then Meyer should be publicly flogged.
Not to mention Lawrence should be a much better QB than Herbert based on talent, so having a season in that Herbert 2020 kind of area should be the Lawrence expectation.
Ekler played in 10 games last season due to injury and had 930 combined rushing and receiving yards..... For a 16 game season, that's 1480 yards from scrimmage. Ekler is pretty special regardless if he was undrafted or not.
I agree that Lawrence should have a season like Herbert but even if he doesn't, I'm cool with it.
(07-09-2021, 09:32 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 09:21 AM)rufftime Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious to poll the group. Do you feel that our offense in 2021 is worse than the Chargers 2020 group? I agree their defense is/ was better, but I would think our offense is actually more talented around the rookie QB than their's was.
Great question. Depth wise, I think the Jags may have them but top end talent, Chargers win that one.
Keenan Allen is better than any WR the Jags have. Hunter Henry is absolutely better than any TE the Jags have and Eckler is one of the best receiving backs in the league.
Agreed. They have those few players that give them an edge but overall we look just as good.
The only other thing i think they have us beat on is a settled O system. Weve had i think 5 OC's in 5 years, each with their own ideas and systems. Hopefully we can have the current regime for few years so we can get to the stage where we are fine tuning the O.
(07-09-2021, 10:49 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 09:58 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Without a doubt the chargers have talented offensive pieces, but if Etienne isn't at least as good as Ekeler, an undrafted free agent in 2017 with less than 1000 combined rushing and receiving yards last year, then Meyer should be publicly flogged.
Not to mention Lawrence should be a much better QB than Herbert based on talent, so having a season in that Herbert 2020 kind of area should be the Lawrence expectation.
Ekler played in 10 games last season due to injury and had 930 combined rushing and receiving yards..... For a 16 game season, that's 1480 yards from scrimmage. Ekler is pretty special regardless if he was undrafted or not.
I agree that Lawrence should have a season like Herbert but even if he doesn't, I'm cool with it.
Ekeler is a good player, though I think you may think he's better than I think he is. However, if you take a running back in the first round he needs to come out of the gate as a top ten back in the league. Etienne needs to have a 1500 yards 10 TD type of season (rushing and receiving combined for both of those stats) to justify that kind of draft position. If Etienne is just a decent back, and not a great running back then then Meyer made a really stupid pick.
(07-09-2021, 12:24 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 10:49 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Ekler played in 10 games last season due to injury and had 930 combined rushing and receiving yards..... For a 16 game season, that's 1480 yards from scrimmage. Ekler is pretty special regardless if he was undrafted or not.
I agree that Lawrence should have a season like Herbert but even if he doesn't, I'm cool with it.
Ekeler is a good player, though I think you may think he's better than I think he is. However, if you take a running back in the first round he needs to come out of the gate as a top ten back in the league. Etienne needs to have a 1500 yards 10 TD type of season (rushing and receiving combined for both of those stats) to justify that kind of draft position. If Etienne is just a decent back, and not a great running back then then Meyer made a really stupid pick.
I think if Etienne has a 1500 yd 10 TD type of season, then we got a steal at pick #25.
(07-09-2021, 12:40 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 12:24 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Ekeler is a good player, though I think you may think he's better than I think he is. However, if you take a running back in the first round he needs to come out of the gate as a top ten back in the league. Etienne needs to have a 1500 yards 10 TD type of season (rushing and receiving combined for both of those stats) to justify that kind of draft position. If Etienne is just a decent back, and not a great running back then then Meyer made a really stupid pick.
I think if Etienne has a 1500 yd 10 TD type of season, then we got a steal at pick #25.
It saddens me to see such a lack of perspective around here. Do you know what James Robinson's did in 14 games last season for a bad team with bad QB play? If Etienne is a first round steal with those stats then what is Robinson?
(07-09-2021, 12:52 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 12:40 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think if Etienne has a 1500 yd 10 TD type of season, then we got a steal at pick #25.
It saddens me to see sick a lack of perspective around here. Do you know what James Robinson's did in 14 games last season for a bad team with bad QB play? If Etienne is a first round steal with those stats then what is Robinson?
An incredible steal. No doubt.
Of course, if we had known he was that good, we would have drafted him. So we were lucky.
(07-09-2021, 01:01 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 12:52 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]It saddens me to see sick a lack of perspective around here. Do you know what James Robinson's did in 14 games last season for a bad team with bad QB play? If Etienne is a first round steal with those stats then what is Robinson?
An incredible steal. No doubt.
Of course, if we had known he was that good, we would have drafted him. So we were lucky.
And Robinson wasn't even pro bowl at his position.
1500 yards and 10 TD would be what should be expected from a first round running back with 17 games. A first round running back should be a top ten player at his position with the low value placed on running backs. A first round running back needs to be a great player, not someone that needs a lack of production excused.
SeldomRite
(07-09-2021, 12:24 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 10:49 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Ekler played in 10 games last season due to injury and had 930 combined rushing and receiving yards..... For a 16 game season, that's 1480 yards from scrimmage. Ekler is pretty special regardless if he was undrafted or not.
I agree that Lawrence should have a season like Herbert but even if he doesn't, I'm cool with it.
Ekeler is a good player, though I think you may think he's better than I think he is. However, if you take a running back in the first round he needs to come out of the gate as a top ten back in the league. Etienne needs to have a 1500 yards 10 TD type of season (rushing and receiving combined for both of those stats) to justify that kind of draft position. If Etienne is just a decent back, and not a great running back then then Meyer made a really stupid pick.
(07-09-2021, 01:18 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (07-09-2021, 01:01 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]An incredible steal. No doubt.
Of course, if we had known he was that good, we would have drafted him. So we were lucky.
And Robinson wasn't even pro bowl at his position.
1500 yards and 10 TD would be what should be expected from a first round running back with 17 games. A first round running back should be a top ten player at his position with the low value placed on running backs. A first round running back needs to be a great player, not someone that needs a lack of production excused.
Regarding the bolded -
While I despise the drafting of RBs in early rounds, your perspective of draft position justification is arbitrary and merely your own view.
Etienne doesn't
"need" to achieve those numbers to justify his selection.
That's something you've invented and I guarantee you the people that made the decision to draft him do not agree. It actually seems pretty clear they see him as a cog in a wheel of the scheme. An integral missing piece of a puzzle, but not a production workhorse.
Lots of different ways to value players.
It will be interesting to see if he is integral enough to "justify" the pick in the minds of fans, but I have a feeling you are going to be disappointed based on what you think "should be expected.
Regarding the red: The pro bowl hasn't been a valid indicator of a player's worth for many, many years.
(07-09-2021, 01:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]SeldomRite
(07-09-2021, 12:24 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Ekeler is a good player, though I think you may think he's better than I think he is. However, if you take a running back in the first round he needs to come out of the gate as a top ten back in the league. Etienne needs to have a 1500 yards 10 TD type of season (rushing and receiving combined for both of those stats) to justify that kind of draft position. If Etienne is just a decent back, and not a great running back then then Meyer made a really stupid pick.
(07-09-2021, 01:18 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]And Robinson wasn't even pro bowl at his position.
1500 yards and 10 TD would be what should be expected from a first round running back with 17 games. A first round running back should be a top ten player at his position with the low value placed on running backs. A first round running back needs to be a great player, not someone that needs a lack of production excused.
Regarding the bolded -
While I despise the drafting of RBs in early rounds, your perspective of draft position justification is arbitrary and merely your own view.
Etienne doesn't "need" to achieve those numbers to justify his selection.
That's something you've invented and I guarantee you the people that made the decision to draft him do not agree. It actually seems pretty clear they see him as a cog in a wheel of the scheme. An integral missing piece of a puzzle, but not a production workhorse.
Lots of different ways to value players.
It will be interesting to see if he is integral enough to "justify" the pick in the minds of fans, but I have a feeling you are going to be disappointed based on what you think "should be expected.
Regarding the red: The pro bowl hasn't been a valid indicator of a player's worth for many, many years.
You're right, I don't cut the roster, and I have no doubt they'll talk him up until the day he's cut (it'll happen eventually one way or another), but there is a reality that cost carries expectation with it, and a first round pick is a high cost.
If your point is we have bozos running the show that don't understand value or its importance, you may be right. It may even be that you think they'll think a guy with low production is still valuable. That may be right, too, but I doubt it. The main way of measuring the value of a player is in production, though I'm sure if he's really making a difference without high production there will be some way of statistically measuring that, too.