It's not a knock on Lawerence but more about the state of this football team. People who are non biased/blind can see this is a very bad football team and we may win only a few games this year. No sense in putting Lawerence in the Lions Den with very little help around him. Joe Burrow was in that same boat with the Bengals and look how that ended up. Lawerence is a competitor and will fight for every yard. The problem is this team is so void of Talent he is going to be asked to do too much. I think it maybe best to let Shew take over for the first half of the season and assess from there.
Lawerence got beat up in a little more than a half of a meaningless preseason game against the Saints. I shutter to think the Jaguars playing a strong pass rush going at full strength. Please dont' use the "X" player didn't play last night line. This team is mediocre with or without those players.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tas7z69D_w
TLaw is ready, the rest of the roster is a year away.
I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
(08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
The OL we'll be starting in 19 days will be a lot different than the one they trotted out last night.
Despite what some might think (or want to ignore), an OL with Cam/Norwell/Linder/Cann/Taylor is far better than an OL with Little/Bartch/Shatley/Cann/Taylor.
(08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]TLaw is ready, the rest of the roster is a year away.
That is my point. We put him behind this offensive line that is very suspect in pass protection along with receivers who can't seperate. Yes Chark will make a difference but not a huge one. This team has bad pass protection, mediocre wr's, and horrendous tight ends. It does not spell success for any QB. Put Manning in his prime and he still struggles on this team.
(08-24-2021, 07:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
The OL we'll be starting in 19 days will be a lot different than the one they trotted out last night.
Despite what some might think (or want to ignore), an OL with Cam/Norwell/Linder/Cann/Taylor is far better than an OL with Little/Bartch/Shatley/Cann/Taylor.
By better, I'd agree. So instead of grossly incompetent, they'll be merely bad. We gotta take the positives where we can I guess.
(08-24-2021, 07:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
The OL we'll be starting in 19 days will be a lot different than the one they trotted out last night.
Despite what some might think (or want to ignore), an OL with Cam/Norwell/Linder/Cann/Taylor is far better than an OL with Little/Bartch/Shatley/Cann/Taylor.
You Do know that starting oline you label as "far better" was one of the worst lines in the entire league right?
(08-24-2021, 07:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]The OL we'll be starting in 19 days will be a lot different than the one they trotted out last night.
Despite what some might think (or want to ignore), an OL with Cam/Norwell/Linder/Cann/Taylor is far better than an OL with Little/Bartch/Shatley/Cann/Taylor.
You Do know that starting oline you label as "far better" was one of the worst lines in the entire league right?
False, they were a middle of the pack OL last year.
(08-24-2021, 07:11 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]You Do know that starting oline you label as "far better" was one of the worst lines in the entire league right?
False, they were a middle of the pack OL last year.
Last year they were ok against the run but not great at pass pro. From what I've seen thus far, they've seriously regressed.
Peyton was on his [BLEEP] most of his rookie year they went 1-15 I believe, same thing with Troy.
I’m not worried about Lawrence getting shellschocked as Griese had mentioned last night. Lawrence is a technical god, his fundamentals are solid he’s not gonna lose that over night. Based on what he did last night he doesn’t seem to have any fear so I’m not worried about him getting self conscious and fearful of getting sacked.
I say let Lawrence do it up , he’s too smart and talented to just let him bench it. Let him have this season as a throw away season with reps. If it becomes an issue where he’s being sacked 6 times a game , then yeah let’s take him outta there.
(08-24-2021, 07:13 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:11 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]False, they were a middle of the pack OL last year.
Last year they were ok against the run but not great at pass pro. From what I've seen thus far, they've seriously regressed.
They were above average run blocking and below average pass blocking. When you looked at the pressures allowed and QB hits allowed of every OL last year, ours was tied with like 4 other teams at 16th or 17th in the league.
Of course it could get better and needs to get better, but you also have to remember the QBs we had last year. A 6th round rookie in Luton. A statue in the pocket in Glennon and somebody who would hold onto the ball for too long, way too often in Minshew.
(08-24-2021, 07:11 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]You Do know that starting oline you label as "far better" was one of the worst lines in the entire league right?
False, they were a middle of the pack OL last year.
Again half truth, PFF that takes into account pass protection and the running game had them ranked at 22. I do agree they were decent at running the football but mediocre is the best it got.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-...e-rankings
(08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
Exactly. We messed this thing up from the get go. It's too late to turn back. All we can do is pray Lawrence doesn't get injured. Besides, if I was starting someone other than Lawrence, it would be Beathard. He has looked miles better than Minshew in the games. Honestly, I'd probably cut Minshew at this point, unless we could find a trade partner. He has regressed.
(08-24-2021, 07:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
The OL we'll be starting in 19 days will be a lot different than the one they trotted out last night.
Despite what some might think (or want to ignore), an OL with Cam/Norwell/Linder/Cann/Taylor is far better than an OL with Little/Bartch/Shatley/Cann/Taylor.
We had that O-Line all last year and in the first preseason game and they sucked just as bad. Cam is not good, Taylor is a disaster, Norwell and Cann are average and Linder is good, but he's seemingly always injured.
(08-24-2021, 07:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:13 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Last year they were ok against the run but not great at pass pro. From what I've seen thus far, they've seriously regressed.
They were above average run blocking and below average pass blocking. When you looked at the pressures allowed and QB hits allowed of every OL last year, ours was tied with like 4 other teams at 16th or 17th in the league.
Of course it could get better and needs to get better, but you also have to remember the QBs we had last year. A 6th round rookie in Luton. A statue in the pocket in Glennon and somebody who would hold onto the ball for too long, way too often in Minshew.
FYI, Robinson and Taylor allowed the most pressures of any other starting OT duo in the NFL, by a wide margin.
(08-24-2021, 07:24 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:11 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]False, they were a middle of the pack OL last year.
Again half truth, PFF that takes into account pass protection and the running game had them ranked at 22. I do agree they were decent at running the football but mediocre is the best it got.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-...e-rankings
Continued to prove what I said...
The difference between the 14th and 22nd ranked OL on that list isn't big at all. Which puts us squarely in the middle of the pack range. You could easily lump a bunch of those groups together and/or switch some of those teams around and you wouldn't know any difference. PFF always makes a list though and go by whatever their grading system is (which has proven to be questionable plenty). it's just one of many grading systems different websites/people will use.
They aren't a top 10 unit and they aren't a bottom 10 unit. They're somewhere between in the big picture of things, with a bunch of other teams.
Remember, more teams struggle to protect the passer in this league than not. There's far better athletes and more of them on DL/OLB who get after the QB than there are quality OL guys. OL play league wide has been on the decline in recent years as a whole.
(08-24-2021, 07:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 06:54 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I get what you're saying. Let Minshew take the beating until the OL gets it together. The only issue is the OL will apparently never get it together, so what's the point? All is lost.
Exactly. We messed this thing up from the get go. It's too late to turn back. All we can do is pray Lawrence doesn't get injured. Besides, if I was starting someone other than Lawrence, it would be Beathard. He has looked miles better than Minshew in the games. Honestly, I'd probably cut Minshew at this point, unless we could find a trade partner. He has regressed.
(08-24-2021, 07:02 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]The OL we'll be starting in 19 days will be a lot different than the one they trotted out last night.
Despite what some might think (or want to ignore), an OL with Cam/Norwell/Linder/Cann/Taylor is far better than an OL with Little/Bartch/Shatley/Cann/Taylor.
We had that O-Line all last year and in the first preseason game and they sucked just as bad. Cam is not good, Taylor is a disaster, Norwell and Cann are average and Linder is good, but he's seemingly always injured.
(08-24-2021, 07:23 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]They were above average run blocking and below average pass blocking. When you looked at the pressures allowed and QB hits allowed of every OL last year, ours was tied with like 4 other teams at 16th or 17th in the league.
Of course it could get better and needs to get better, but you also have to remember the QBs we had last year. A 6th round rookie in Luton. A statue in the pocket in Glennon and somebody who would hold onto the ball for too long, way too often in Minshew.
FYI, Robinson and Taylor allowed the most pressures of any other starting OT duo in the NFL, by a wide margin.
Norwell did not play in the first preseason game and Linder left after just a couple plays.
I'd also love to see where you got individual allowed pressure numbers at because I'd love to give them a look. Not just for Cam/Taylor, but in general.
(08-24-2021, 07:49 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:31 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. We messed this thing up from the get go. It's too late to turn back. All we can do is pray Lawrence doesn't get injured. Besides, if I was starting someone other than Lawrence, it would be Beathard. He has looked miles better than Minshew in the games. Honestly, I'd probably cut Minshew at this point, unless we could find a trade partner. He has regressed.
We had that O-Line all last year and in the first preseason game and they sucked just as bad. Cam is not good, Taylor is a disaster, Norwell and Cann are average and Linder is good, but he's seemingly always injured.
FYI, Robinson and Taylor allowed the most pressures of any other starting OT duo in the NFL, by a wide margin.
Norwell did not play in the first preseason game and Linder left after just a couple plays.
I'd also love to see where you got individual allowed pressure numbers at because I'd love to give them a look. Not just for Cam/Taylor, but in general.
I brought this up many times before the draft. I don't know exactly which article it was, but the article was on PFF.com. It came out after the season and before the draft.
(08-24-2021, 07:39 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:24 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Again half truth, PFF that takes into account pass protection and the running game had them ranked at 22. I do agree they were decent at running the football but mediocre is the best it got.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-...e-rankings
Continued to prove what I said...
The difference between the 14th and 22nd ranked OL on that list isn't big at all. Which puts us squarely in the middle of the pack range. You could easily lump a bunch of those groups together and/or switch some of those teams around and you wouldn't know any difference. PFF always makes a list though and go by whatever their grading system is (which has proven to be questionable plenty). it's just one of many grading systems different websites/people will use.
They aren't a top 10 unit and they aren't a bottom 10 unit. They're somewhere between in the big picture of things, with a bunch of other teams.
Remember, more teams struggle to protect the passer in this league than not. There's far better athletes and more of them on DL/OLB who get after the QB than there are quality OL guys. OL play league wide has been on the decline in recent years as a whole.
Dude 14th is better than half the teams. 22 means you are worse than over 70% of teams in the league. 22 out of 32 is bad, sugar coat that however you wish. 22nd makes this a bottom 10 unit. Your delusional and a blind fanboy. I do not value your opinion and I doubt many others do.
(08-24-2021, 09:22 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (08-24-2021, 07:39 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Continued to prove what I said...
The difference between the 14th and 22nd ranked OL on that list isn't big at all. Which puts us squarely in the middle of the pack range. You could easily lump a bunch of those groups together and/or switch some of those teams around and you wouldn't know any difference. PFF always makes a list though and go by whatever their grading system is (which has proven to be questionable plenty). it's just one of many grading systems different websites/people will use.
They aren't a top 10 unit and they aren't a bottom 10 unit. They're somewhere between in the big picture of things, with a bunch of other teams.
Remember, more teams struggle to protect the passer in this league than not. There's far better athletes and more of them on DL/OLB who get after the QB than there are quality OL guys. OL play league wide has been on the decline in recent years as a whole.
Dude 14th is better than half the teams. 22 means you are worse than over 70% of teams in the league. 22 out of 32 is bad, sugar coat that however you wish. 22nd makes this a bottom 10 unit. Your delusional and a blind fanboy. I do not value your opinion and I doubt many others do.
You're clueless and have zero comprehension. Keep getting your opinions from NBC and CBS.
And trust me when I tell you that I couldn't give two [BLEEP] about what you value my opinion as, considering you have some of the worst takes on this board bud.
I suspect in the regular season Manhertz will be staying in to block quite a lot. Max Protect should be the most called play by Bevell this year. Chark, Viska & MJJ should all be able to give Trevor a window if we can keep him upright he'll find it.