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(09-27-2021, 11:07 AM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The desperation with which some of you guys defend Lawrence is very telling. You don't have to sell a great product so fiercely as its worth is self-evident.
Do you only have access to the box scores and play by playonly? Watching and putting eyeballs on the game don't come anywhere near what you are suggesting. He played an average game yesterday but you can see how much talent he has available to build on and improve.
(09-27-2021, 11:37 AM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 11:07 AM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The desperation with which some of you guys defend Lawrence is very telling. You don't have to sell a great product so fiercely as its worth is self-evident.
Do you only have access to the box scores and play by playonly? Watching and putting eyeballs on the game don't come anywhere near what you are suggesting. He played an average game yesterday but you can see how much talent he has available to build on and improve.
Exactly, his ceiling is really high. Just imagine a year of experience in the NFL and some upgrades to help him out.
(09-27-2021, 09:17 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I’m gonna channel the Dad in the 70’s show. “Stupid post, [BLEEP]”
Honestly I didn't think you needed to channel Red Forman, I just always thought you were him.
(09-27-2021, 11:07 AM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The desperation with which some of you guys defend Lawrence is very telling. You don't have to sell a great product so fiercely as its worth is self-evident.
This must be why I see Coca-Cola ads everywhere. The stuff is gross.
(09-27-2021, 12:06 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 09:17 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I’m gonna channel the Dad in the 70’s show. “Stupid post, [BLEEP]”
Honestly I didn't think you needed to channel Red Forman, I just always thought you were him.
No, Red made me laugh.
To be clear: I am not saying at this moment he is a bust. He certainly has not proven to be the man yet either. I have seen some good but much more bad. Lets hope he can turn it around but to this point he has looked Horrendous for a starting QB.
(09-27-2021, 04:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear: I am not saying at this moment he is a bust. He certainly has not proven to be the man yet either. I have seen some good but much more bad. Lets hope he can turn it around but to this point he has looked Horrendous for a starting QB.
What were you expecting from him at this point?
Is there a rookie QB you wanted more than him? Who?
These are the updated numbers from all of the first round rookies through week 3.
Name Team Comp Att Yds TD INT Sack Record
T. Lawrence Jaguars 64 117 669 5 7 4 0-3
Z. Wilson Jets 58 105 468 2 7 15 0-3
T. Lance SF 1 1 5 1 0 0
J. Fields Chi 12 33 128 0 1 11 0-1
M. Jones NE 51 69 467 1 3 5 1-2
Granted, it's theoretically possible all of these guys will bust, but do you think ALL of them will bust?
Which one of these guys have looked demonstrably better than TL based on these numbers, assuming the numbers are reasonably accurate?
He's thrown more TDs than all of the other QBs combined. Despite throwing more passes than all of the other QBs, he's been sacked fewer than all of them.
Yes, you can argue they are all just varying degrees of bad, and you would be right.
But it's acceptable because they are all rookies. Lance and Jones went to teams with decent to good surrounding talent. Otherwise, the Jags, Jets and Bears all have bad offensive lines.
(09-26-2021, 08:20 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2021, 08:12 PM)YouMadThough Wrote: [ -> ]Go back to school dude you can't even spell.
Whatever dude, the #1 pick has more INTs than TDs. Let that sink in.
Are you trying to cover for something you pulled out of your butt?
You know this is a Tacks troll right?
(09-27-2021, 05:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 04:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]To be clear: I am not saying at this moment he is a bust. He certainly has not proven to be the man yet either. I have seen some good but much more bad. Lets hope he can turn it around but to this point he has looked Horrendous for a starting QB.
What were you expecting from him at this point?
Is there a rookie QB you wanted more than him? Who?
These are the updated numbers from all of the first round rookies through week 3.
Name Team Comp Att Yds TD INT Sack Record
T. Lawrence Jaguars 64 117 669 5 7 4 0-3
Z. Wilson Jets 58 105 468 2 7 15 0-3
T. Lance SF 1 1 5 1 0 0
J. Fields Chi 12 33 128 0 1 11 0-1
M. Jones NE 51 69 467 1 3 5 1-2
Granted, it's theoretically possible all of these guys will bust, but do you think ALL of them will bust?
Which one of these guys have looked demonstrably better than TL based on these numbers, assuming the numbers are reasonably accurate?
He's thrown more TDs than all of the other QBs combined. Despite throwing more passes than all of the other QBs, he's been sacked fewer than all of them.
Yes, you can argue they are all just varying degrees of bad, and you would be right.
But it's acceptable because they are all rookies. Lance and Jones went to teams with decent to good surrounding talent. Otherwise, the Jags, Jets and Bears all have bad offensive lines.
You have made my point for me. The way the experts talked this kid was the next coming of Andrew Luck. He isn't even in the ballpark right now. He is probably playing the second best on the list right now behind Jones. The biggest killer is the turnovers. He is throwing at an insanely high rate. As a team if you lose the turnover battle you are almost guarantee to lose the game. I get as a rookie ints are too be expected but he has thrown multiple in every game. Wilson had that bad 7 ints game but to be honest I never was sold on Wilson anyway. In simple terms, he has to be smarter with the football. I will grant you he does desever a mulligan on some of his mistakes because of the horrible play calling or receivers not playing well. To be Determined! We shall come back to this by the bye week and see how it's progressing.
(09-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 05:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]What were you expecting from him at this point?
Is there a rookie QB you wanted more than him? Who?
These are the updated numbers from all of the first round rookies through week 3.
Name Team Comp Att Yds TD INT Sack Record
T. Lawrence Jaguars 64 117 669 5 7 4 0-3
Z. Wilson Jets 58 105 468 2 7 15 0-3
T. Lance SF 1 1 5 1 0 0
J. Fields Chi 12 33 128 0 1 11 0-1
M. Jones NE 51 69 467 1 3 5 1-2
Granted, it's theoretically possible all of these guys will bust, but do you think ALL of them will bust?
Which one of these guys have looked demonstrably better than TL based on these numbers, assuming the numbers are reasonably accurate?
He's thrown more TDs than all of the other QBs combined. Despite throwing more passes than all of the other QBs, he's been sacked fewer than all of them.
Yes, you can argue they are all just varying degrees of bad, and you would be right.
But it's acceptable because they are all rookies. Lance and Jones went to teams with decent to good surrounding talent. Otherwise, the Jags, Jets and Bears all have bad offensive lines.
You have made my point for me. The way the experts talked this kid was the next coming of Andrew Luck. He isn't even in the ballpark right now. He is probably playing the second best on the list right now behind Jones. The biggest killer is the turnovers. He is throwing at an insanely high rate. As a team if you lose the turnover battle you are almost guarantee to lose the game. I get as a rookie ints are too be expected but he has thrown multiple in every game. Wilson had that bad 7 ints game but to be honest I never was sold on Wilson anyway. In simple terms, he has to be smarter with the football. I will grant you he does desever a mulligan on some of his mistakes because of the horrible play calling or receivers not playing well. To be Determined! We shall come back to this by the bye week and see how it's progressing.
Your unstated premise is that a guy billed as a once in a generation QB prospect should be an out of the box immediate All pro caliber QB.
It doesn't work that way typically, even for superior QB prospects.
Elway was deemed the best QB prospect ever, but he struggled his first year.
Aikman was considered another great QB prospect when he was drafted in 1989. He struggled his first three years.
Peyton Manning was another great QB prospect, yet he threw 28 INTs his first year, and he had an NFL QB dad to teach him the game his whole life, and an All Pro WR, RB and a very good LT all in their primes when he arrived in the league.
Steve Young was not a highly drafted guy in the NFL because he defected to the USFL first. But even with 3 years of professional experience in the USFL going for him, he struggled mightily in his first few years in the NFL..
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...unSt00.htm
NFL history is replete with guys who struggled in their rookie seasons and other great QBs who sat in their rookie years because their coaches knew they would not be ready as rookies and let them develop slowly.
Wilson did NOT have a 7 INT game. Wilson had a 4 INT game and a 2 INT game and a 1 INT game. He turned the ball over in each of his first three games. Unlike TL, however, he has NOT accounted for a TD in each of his first three games.
Guys like Marino, Big Ben, Watson and Herbert are aberrations...exceptions to the rule. In the cases of marino and Big ben, they got their first year snaps playing on teams a season or two away from playing in the Super Bowl.
It's not the same as going to a team that was at the very bottom of the standings....one typically lacking talent throughout the roster.
(09-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 05:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]What were you expecting from him at this point?
Is there a rookie QB you wanted more than him? Who?
These are the updated numbers from all of the first round rookies through week 3.
Name Team Comp Att Yds TD INT Sack Record
T. Lawrence Jaguars 64 117 669 5 7 4 0-3
Z. Wilson Jets 58 105 468 2 7 15 0-3
T. Lance SF 1 1 5 1 0 0
J. Fields Chi 12 33 128 0 1 11 0-1
M. Jones NE 51 69 467 1 3 5 1-2
Granted, it's theoretically possible all of these guys will bust, but do you think ALL of them will bust?
Which one of these guys have looked demonstrably better than TL based on these numbers, assuming the numbers are reasonably accurate?
He's thrown more TDs than all of the other QBs combined. Despite throwing more passes than all of the other QBs, he's been sacked fewer than all of them.
Yes, you can argue they are all just varying degrees of bad, and you would be right.
But it's acceptable because they are all rookies. Lance and Jones went to teams with decent to good surrounding talent. Otherwise, the Jags, Jets and Bears all have bad offensive lines.
You have made my point for me. The way the experts talked this kid was the next coming of Andrew Luck. He isn't even in the ballpark right now. He is probably playing the second best on the list right now behind Jones. The biggest killer is the turnovers. He is throwing at an insanely high rate. As a team if you lose the turnover battle you are almost guarantee to lose the game. I get as a rookie ints are too be expected but he has thrown multiple in every game. Wilson had that bad 7 ints game but to be honest I never was sold on Wilson anyway. In simple terms, he has to be smarter with the football. I will grant you he does desever a mulligan on some of his mistakes because of the horrible play calling or receivers not playing well. To be Determined! We shall come back to this by the bye week and see how it's progressing.
In his first 3 games, Luck had ONE more TD than INTs, so even he struggled at first, like most rookies.
(09-27-2021, 09:31 PM)jdjags92 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]You have made my point for me. The way the experts talked this kid was the next coming of Andrew Luck. He isn't even in the ballpark right now. He is probably playing the second best on the list right now behind Jones. The biggest killer is the turnovers. He is throwing at an insanely high rate. As a team if you lose the turnover battle you are almost guarantee to lose the game. I get as a rookie ints are too be expected but he has thrown multiple in every game. Wilson had that bad 7 ints game but to be honest I never was sold on Wilson anyway. In simple terms, he has to be smarter with the football. I will grant you he does desever a mulligan on some of his mistakes because of the horrible play calling or receivers not playing well. To be Determined! We shall come back to this by the bye week and see how it's progressing.
In his first 3 games, Luck had ONE more TD than INTs, so even he struggled at first, like most rookies.
He also played on a team two seasons removed from a 10-6 record, three removed from a 14-2 record.
He had talent with which to work, unlike most first overall picks at QB.
Thank you, Bullseye, for pointing out how many of the great QB's struggled their first year. After reading the first post in this thread, I remembered Manning's horrendous first season and thought to myself, "He turned out to be a pretty good QB" .
He's made the line look better than average.
The throw he made to the checkdown while running basically backwards was great. Haven't had a QB that can drive the ball like that...ever. Leftwich may have had the velocity but, would have been strip sacked with the windup.
(09-28-2021, 10:23 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]He's made the line look better than average.
The throw he made to the checkdown while running basically backwards was great. Haven't had a QB that can drive the ball like that...ever. Leftwich may have had the velocity but, would have been strip sacked with the windup.
If any other rookie QB was under center, they would be getting destroyed and the line would have given up 10+ sacks at this point.
(09-27-2021, 12:06 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (09-27-2021, 09:17 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I’m gonna channel the Dad in the 70’s show. “Stupid post, [BLEEP]”
Honestly I didn't think you needed to channel Red Forman, I just always thought you were him.
hahah
He looks bad sure but I'm not concerned. Manning struggled early on, Aikman was terrible early on (they both had more INTs to start then Trevor) but he also doesn't have a support structure. Why the college football coach who is clearly out of his league refuses to take off the pressure with the run game and more friendly play calling is beyond me.
Long term, Trevor will be fine, just need to let him get past the growing pains without breaking his confidence.
Imo, the better the qb, the more ints he throw early. The dude trusts his arm. He's going to have to learn to throw open his receivers and properly respect NFL dbs. He's picked up some "bad" habits because he hasn't had to make those adjustments to his game in probably forever.
Don't have the time this month to do a Filmroom breakdown post. But it's obvious to anyone with eyes the improvement week to week to week. A good portion of those interceptions are plays that receivers don't make and it bounces off for a turnover (see hollister last sunday).
There were 2 throws that show he's the best in the class (don't care about Mac Jones' completion % and him getting a single victory against the hapless jets/other rookie qb).
1) Q1 5:22 left on the clock, 1st & 10 - Play action, feels the pressure on the blindside, moves in the pocket to the right and fires a LASER in a tight window for a 1st down to MJJ.
2) Q2 :30 left on the clock, 2nd & 5 - 2 by 2 set, smash type concept against the Cardinals Zone, Lawrence puts it ON THE MONEY with touch over 2 cardinal defenders and with a few feet to spare to come down in bounds for a perfectly thrown TD to DJ Chark.
Those 2 throws are worlds better than anything the other rookie QB's have done to this point. The first throw I haven't seen a Jags QB make since Garrard was here. The 2nd .... I'm not sure if i've EVER seen a Jags QB (maybe Brunell when I was a kid) make that type of money throw. And that was to cap a 2 min. drive and tie the game (kick-6 pandemonium we were unaware was to come) against a solid cardinals defense.
Lawrence passes the "eye test" with flying colors. his average depth of target is much deeper than the other rookies, his passing array has him throwing the whole route tree and looking to hit spots all over the field. While the other rookies are just game managing for the most part. We can teach Lawrence to be cool, and patient with the ball, it's much harder for the other rookies to learn how to be fearless, trust what they see, and be aggressive taking shots downfield. Lawrence will end up being the best of this class all he needs is experience and for the team to continue to add talent around him; and most importantly this team needs to GROW WITH LAWRENCE!!! It's his team now, start getting everyone to rally around him.
(09-28-2021, 07:39 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]Don't have the time this month to do a Filmroom breakdown post. But it's obvious to anyone with eyes the improvement week to week to week. A good portion of those interceptions are plays that receivers don't make and it bounces off for a turnover (see hollister last sunday).
There were 2 throws that show he's the best in the class (don't care about Mac Jones' completion % and him getting a single victory against the hapless jets/other rookie qb).
1) Q1 5:22 left on the clock, 1st & 10 - Play action, feels the pressure on the blindside, moves in the pocket to the right and fires a LASER in a tight window for a 1st down to MJJ.
2) Q2 :30 left on the clock, 2nd & 5 - 2 by 2 set, smash type concept against the Cardinals Zone, Lawrence puts it ON THE MONEY with touch over 2 cardinal defenders and with a few feet to spare to come down in bounds for a perfectly thrown TD to DJ Chark.
Those 2 throws are worlds better than anything the other rookie QB's have done to this point. The first throw I haven't seen a Jags QB make since Garrard was here. The 2nd .... I'm not sure if i've EVER seen a Jags QB (maybe Brunell when I was a kid) make that type of money throw. And that was to cap a 2 min. drive and tie the game (kick-6 pandemonium we were unaware was to come) against a solid cardinals defense.
Lawrence passes the "eye test" with flying colors. his average depth of target is much deeper than the other rookies, his passing array has him throwing the whole route tree and looking to hit spots all over the field. While the other rookies are just game managing for the most part. We can teach Lawrence to be cool, and patient with the ball, it's much harder for the other rookies to learn how to be fearless, trust what they see, and be aggressive taking shots downfield. Lawrence will end up being the best of this class all he needs is experience and for the team to continue to add talent around him; and most importantly this team needs to GROW WITH LAWRENCE!!! It's his team now, start getting everyone to rally around him.
Well said, completely agree.
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