(10-28-2021, 10:27 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2021, 10:02 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]If TL makes them better then the opposite, Minshew made them worse, is also true.
Minshew clearly held the ball too long. The fact remains the the film of the line still looks the same, just TLaw has the ball gone before he gets hit.
You make a good point. It is a team playing the game, after all.
I wonder how the oline's average protection time compares against other olines. We get PFF ratings and whatnot, but they are individual scores. Unit measures give a better view of everyone working together. TLaw shortens the time before letting a pass go really helps. Is he shorting into a reasonable window or is he shortening even further into a small window?
Guessing Cann and Norwell are gonna leave.
Wondering how much Robinson will ask for? Would the Jags consider tagging him again?? Should they?? I’m honestly not sold on Little. He hasn’t had, nor is he getting any PT.
A very good qb with awareness helps your line a lot.
(10-28-2021, 11:05 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2021, 11:00 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Just ridiculous you give the line 0 credit while giving the Qb all of it. Short memory when the first few games Trevor was holding the ball forever. Is this line elite? Far from it. Is this line terrible? Far from it.
I didn't say they were terrible, just that the improvements we've seen are about the skill of the QB and not a veteran group of linemen suddenly improving when they still look the same on tape.
no I'm pretty sure you said that they were terrible multiple times... they're no different from last year is what you said also... and they look the same on tape as they did last year.... I get it.. it's 100% the quarterback and the oline has nothing to do with it lmao
(10-28-2021, 04:17 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Heh. So hard for these boards to admit that the unit on this team which blows the least is the oline.
TLaw is amazing. Despite being utterly green and on an obvious steep learning curve, he alone is responsible for any success. The oline performs? No credi to them. The game improves? No credit to UM. Pretty damned funny. Pathetic as well, but still funny.
just as hard as it is for you to admit the same linemen and line coach were gettin QBs blowed up all season long a year ago.
It's a team sport. What has changed in a year? QB, OC, HC, and a few of the receivers. Not like Little is playing, so you can't even say fresh meat on the line is contributing to their newfound success. You can change the scheme all you want, but if the QB ain't getting the ball out, sacks are going to happen. They aren't, which leads me to believe that either we've hired the smartest OC ever (we didn't), or the QB is doing some brilliant work to avoid unnecessary sacks.
Are you saying the line would look equally competent if Minshew or Glennon were still taking the snaps?
(10-28-2021, 05:55 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]While some of us wants to credit TL16 w/respect to this accomplishment, keep in mind of the injuries within the O-Line. Back Ups has stepped in w/little to No drop off.
The credit is shared to say the least.
NH3...
@You must pick a side and support your faction and your faction alone. Levelheadedness will not be tolerated.@
(enjoy your rec)
(10-28-2021, 08:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]What is wrong with this board and it's fans? Every once of good news, a handful of angry fans shoot everything down. We suck and we are 1-5 but appreciate some good things. This line has played better than almost anybody expected.
where has anyone shot anything down?
by trying to find context that fits a cherry-picked stat?
this just in, a lot of factors go into whether or not a sack occurs.
(10-28-2021, 09:14 PM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2021, 08:57 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]Because the line has always sucked at pass blocking and been good at run blocking. Because it still isn't good at pass blocking, just Trevor makes them look better.
Trevor and J-Rob are the only two things on this team worth being excited about.
yeah because the oline has sucked in the past there's no possible way they could improve 
ok, I'll bite. Who have you seen improve, and how are they improved?
That stat is a friendly reminder just how long Minshew used to hold on to the ball.
(10-29-2021, 04:20 AM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ]Guessing Cann and Norwell are gonna leave.
Wondering how much Robinson will ask for? Would the Jags consider tagging him again?? Should they?? I’m honestly not sold on Little. He hasn’t had, nor is he getting any PT.
I don't know that I tag again, but Robinson has looked better with a QB who isn't waiting for WR to get fully open before unloading the ball. I think the question is whether anyone else will make a bigger offer than we do (either in duration or guarantees). I'd be ok to keep him around and focus on the right side of the line with urgency.
(10-29-2021, 08:52 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]That stat is a friendly reminder just how long Minshew used to hold on to the ball.
I think a big part of it is the height. Trevor sees downfield a lot better than Minshew did because he is much taller. I also remember Minshew missing wide open receivers down field, probably because he couldn't see them. And also, of course, Trevor's excellent feel for where the pass rush is coming from.
(10-29-2021, 02:19 AM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2021, 10:27 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew clearly held the ball too long. The fact remains the the film of the line still looks the same, just TLaw has the ball gone before he gets hit.
You make a good point. It is a team playing the game, after all.
I wonder how the oline's average protection time compares against other olines. We get PFF ratings and whatnot, but they are individual scores. Unit measures give a better view of everyone working together. TLaw shortens the time before letting a pass go really helps. Is he shorting into a reasonable window or is he shortening even further into a small window?
I think he's very decisive for such a young QB and that's improved pretty much every week since Week 1. This team has a good run blocking line that we seemingly refuse to use to their potential, but they are pretty bad in pass pro, especially the starters on the right side. Cam and Norwell have been better than expected this season so far, but Cann and Taylor have been beaten repeatedly by teams that aren't particularly good at rushing the QB. Hopefully the OC continues to figure out that he should be run-heavy the rest of the way.
(10-29-2021, 08:26 AM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-28-2021, 11:05 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say they were terrible, just that the improvements we've seen are about the skill of the QB and not a veteran group of linemen suddenly improving when they still look the same on tape.
no I'm pretty sure you said that they were terrible multiple times... they're no different from last year is what you said also... and they look the same on tape as they did last year.... I get it.. it's 100% the quarterback and the oline has nothing to do with it lmao
They aren't different from last year, the difference is the guy under center. They are a decent run blocking unit but the OC doesn't want to run the ball. They aren't good in pass pro though Trevor makes them look better than the QBs did last year. That sad thing is that they ran the ball pretty well last year when the QB play was awful, now it could be special with a competent guy back there but the OC just won't commit to it.
Looks like Robinson may not be the dead worst LT in the league anymore, but he's still in the bottom tier (he points out in the next tweet he meant LT for both axis and it was a typo). Cann might be the worst RG as charted in his thread later on. Dunno why he only charted LT and RG I'd like to see where Norwell, Linder, and especially Taylor land on these charts. Regardless, I think the oline's improvement has been 90% Trevor already being extremely good at navigating the pocket and 10% the oline actually improving.
https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/14...3249856519
Remember everyone on here laughing at me a few months back for saying if T Law was the real deal, our Oline would be perfectly fine as is.
(10-29-2021, 09:06 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2021, 08:26 AM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ]no I'm pretty sure you said that they were terrible multiple times... they're no different from last year is what you said also... and they look the same on tape as they did last year.... I get it.. it's 100% the quarterback and the oline has nothing to do with it lmao
They aren't different from last year, the difference is the guy under center. They are a decent run blocking unit but the OC doesn't want to run the ball. They aren't good in pass pro though Trevor makes them look better than the QBs did last year. That sad thing is that they ran the ball pretty well last year when the QB play was awful, now it could be special with a competent guy back there but the OC just won't commit to it.
Considering Robinsons YPC is a full yard higher than Derrick Henry it makes you wonder why he dosen't get but half the carries Henry does.
I mean, the o-line has absolutely NOT been giving a clean pocket to trevor with any consistency at all. In fact it is rare that he has that.
He's making the line look better than they are and it's obvious.
I'm glad that his talent is making the current lineup serviceable, but we all know changes are coning to the line next year and we should all be hoping they upgrade protection.
Lawrence will be deadly with an above average line.
The current line is a good run blocking line and a below average pass protecting line despite the lack of sacks allowed.
We've all seen these tackles struggle with speed rushers, we've all seen the random Norwell whiffs every other week dating way back, anyone with eyeballs should be aware that Cann was always a weak link, and Taylor's struggles are real, well documented and have been noted by Meyer in pressers this season.
The sack stat doesn't change any of that ^
I mean, isn't it at least somewhat possible that we had/have an average offensive line and the quarterbacks were making them look worse than they actually are, rather than Lawrence making them look better?
I think there may be a little bit of a mix here somewhere.
(10-29-2021, 12:30 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, isn't it at least somewhat possible that we had/have an average offensive line and the quarterbacks were making them look worse than they actually are, rather than Lawrence making them look better?
I think there may be a little bit of a mix here somewhere.
Sure.
Minshew's inability to get the ball out quick and see lanes from the pocket exacerbated the issues, but there were also quite a lot of very quick pressures given up on Minshew/Luton/Glennon that most QBs don't elude well enough to complete a pass.
Prior QBs made the line look worse, Lawrence makes them look better, the real ability of the line is somewhere in between that.
It's a little of both. The line was never as bad as many on here believe, esp Cam Robinson. But TLaw absolutely makes up for most inefficiencies.
However the right side of line has been awful.
Hopefully Little develops and/or starts getting some playing time.
Bartch is about to get a lengthy interview/shot at being the future starter.
I think Norwell has been playing well and was once a cap saving cut imo, perhaps sticks around another season and Linder when healthy is good. But he's often injured, so perhaps it's time to at least get a young center in here. Shat fills in nice but would anyone be comfy with him starting a full season?
The weakest link on the OL is Taylor. We'll see how RG shakes out. Maybe we draft a RT and Little takes over at LT, but the kid needs some snaps or something. Or maybe Robinson sticks around if we dont have to set the tackle market and Little takes over at RT.
But yeah, the OL looked worse than it actually was because Minshew didn't have vision and often held the ball far too long. It isn't a perfect unit, but on a 1 win team no unit is perfect.
Pass blocking is more than just not giving up sacks. It's not giving up pressure and giving your quarterback as much time as possible to throw. If a defensive player gets by our offenisve line quickly, but Trevor throws the ball away, that doesn't count as a sack, but is that good? It's an incompletion. If it's third down, we have to punt. Here's a stat for you. The Jaguars are second to worst in third down efficiency. I do think the offensive line is a significant part of that. Criticism of players on the line isn't just me or people on this board. I heard Tony Boselli and Pete Prisco giving grades over the radio after 6 games. Boselli gave Taylor a D+. Prisco gave him a D-. If you go beyond stats and just watch him play, he's not playing well.
(10-29-2021, 12:30 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, isn't it at least somewhat possible that we had/have an average offensive line and the quarterbacks were making them look worse than they actually are, rather than Lawrence making them look better?
I think there may be a little bit of a mix here somewhere.
Not just Minshew though. Cam was getting Bortles destroyed too, and all of the QBs we've had since then. Foles, Kessler, Luton, Glennon. Yeah it's fair that they are all probably below average at pocket awareness, but I think the combined evidence would show that Lawrence is FAR better at raising the oline's perception than all of those QBs were at lowering them
All of these different people who do oline charting all say without exception that our oline has been losing their individual battles for as long as those services have existed. It's not just our eyes and it's not just PFF.
(10-29-2021, 01:19 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (10-29-2021, 12:30 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, isn't it at least somewhat possible that we had/have an average offensive line and the quarterbacks were making them look worse than they actually are, rather than Lawrence making them look better?
I think there may be a little bit of a mix here somewhere.
Not just Minshew though. Cam was getting Bortles destroyed too, and all of the QBs we've had since then. Foles, Kessler, Luton, Glennon. Yeah it's fair that they are all probably below average at pocket awareness, but I think the combined evidence would show that Lawrence is FAR better at raising the oline's perception than all of those QBs were at lowering them
All of these different people who do oline charting all say without exception that our oline has been losing their individual battles for as long as those services have existed. It's not just our eyes and it's not just PFF.
https://twitter.com/Brickwallblitz/statu...FJ9-A&s=19
Dead average.