Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Can't this be a stat thrown in the other Trevor thread?

(11-30-2021, 08:57 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]Can't this be a stat thrown in the other Trevor thread?

Should just be deleted, this thread is as dumb as they come.

(11-30-2021, 01:34 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]Blaine Gabbert did not have the balls to stay in the pocket, Trevor Lawrence does not have this issue and is developing into a team leader. The two players are totally different IMO. Trevor is one of the most composed rookie qb that I have ever seen. Can’t wait to watch TL develop. Enjoy the ride guys!

Agree, they arent in the same league talent wise. Trevor is clearly better than Gabbert was. I think he will have a big jump next year, if not the second half of this season.

There's no comparison.  I just watch them play.  Gabbert just looked bad.  I was always waiting for a throw with Gabbert where I would say "Oh, so that's why they drafted him!".  It never came.  I've already seen that many times with Lawrence.  I still have high confidence in him.

The only problem I see Trevor having right now is accuracy issues. That and him and the WR not on the same page at times. Trev never folds in the face of pressure, he will stand tall, move around in the pocket or what ever and make the throw while taking the hit whether it's a little off or not, some times being a great throw even when the WR is blanketed. Blaine wouldn't do those things, he folded when pressure, would leave the pocket early at times because he was scared of the pressure, and had accuracy issues. Blaine's arm was decent but not as good as Trevs and his deep throw accuracy was horrible. Just looking at stats to evaluate a player is one of the worst things you can do.

(11-30-2021, 08:06 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2021, 07:39 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]This has become legendary but like a lot of legends, it's based mostly on a couple of instances that then got blown out of proportion. The reality is he did get happy feet because of the number of hits he took early on but was a pretty physically tough player. A bigger issue was his inconsistency reading defenses and getting confused, something that he and Lawrence have in common (so far). To his credit, Lawrence seems to be showing more mental toughness.

Are you kidding me?  Nothing got blown out of proportion.  The guy always was worried about getting hit and hearing imaginary footsteps.  I'll have to disagree of your assessment of his 'toughness'.

You're not remembering right but he did have happy feet. Like I said, it was a mental thing and it's hard to blame him, I've never seen a QB get hit as often and as consistently as he seemed to. He did have some genuine injuries but injury has nothing to do with physical toughness. There's a difference between being hurt and being injured.

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(12-01-2021, 08:58 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The only problem I see Trevor having right now is accuracy issues.  That and him and the WR not on the same page at times.  Trev never folds in the face of pressure, he will stand tall, move around in the pocket or what ever and make the throw while taking the hit whether it's a little off or not, some times being a great throw even when the WR is blanketed.  Blaine wouldn't do those things, he folded when pressure, would leave the pocket early at times because he was scared of the pressure, and had accuracy issues.  Blaine's arm was decent but not as good as Trevs and his deep throw accuracy was horrible.  Just looking at stats to evaluate a player is one of the worst things you can do.

Lawrence hasn't taken the beating that Gabbert did early (thankfully). Before the draft, I was saying that I don't think Lawrence was the prototypical QB model anymore.The league is moving away from the stand-tall traditional pocket passer. That doesn't mean he's not going to be successful but there are reasons (strategy/player talent) why those players have a harder time of it than they had even 10 years ago. To bad we can't clone Mark Brunell, he would fit in well in today's NFL I think.

(12-01-2021, 09:56 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-30-2021, 08:06 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]Are you kidding me?  Nothing got blown out of proportion.  The guy always was worried about getting hit and hearing imaginary footsteps.  I'll have to disagree of your assessment of his 'toughness'.

You're not remembering right but he did have happy feet. Like I said, it was a mental thing and it's hard to blame him, I've never seen a QB get hit as often and as consistently as he seemed to. He did have some genuine injuries but injury has nothing to do with physical toughness. There's a difference between being hurt and being injured.

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(12-01-2021, 08:58 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The only problem I see Trevor having right now is accuracy issues.  That and him and the WR not on the same page at times.  Trev never folds in the face of pressure, he will stand tall, move around in the pocket or what ever and make the throw while taking the hit whether it's a little off or not, some times being a great throw even when the WR is blanketed.  Blaine wouldn't do those things, he folded when pressure, would leave the pocket early at times because he was scared of the pressure, and had accuracy issues.  Blaine's arm was decent but not as good as Trevs and his deep throw accuracy was horrible.  Just looking at stats to evaluate a player is one of the worst things you can do.

Before the draft, I was saying that I don't think Lawrence was the prototypical QB model anymore.The league is moving away from the stand-tall traditional pocket passer. That doesn't mean he's not going to be successful but there are reasons (strategy/player talent) why those players have a harder time of it than they had even 10 years ago. To bad we can't clone Mark Brunell, he would fit in well in today's NFL I think.

He's a mobile or dual threat qb. In the second half we started to play better on offense once he started to take off. 

I think we should look to Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen to see his future.

To treat him as a pocket passer is inviting him busting. Accuracy issues isn't what a pocket passer needs.

(12-01-2021, 10:01 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 09:56 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]You're not remembering right but he did have happy feet. Like I said, it was a mental thing and it's hard to blame him, I've never seen a QB get hit as often and as consistently as he seemed to. He did have some genuine injuries but injury has nothing to do with physical toughness. There's a difference between being hurt and being injured.

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Before the draft, I was saying that I don't think Lawrence was the prototypical QB model anymore.The league is moving away from the stand-tall traditional pocket passer. That doesn't mean he's not going to be successful but there are reasons (strategy/player talent) why those players have a harder time of it than they had even 10 years ago. To bad we can't clone Mark Brunell, he would fit in well in today's NFL I think.

He's a mobile or dual threat qb. In the second half we started to play better on offense once he started to take off. 

I think we should look to Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen to see his future.

A skinny 6'6'' QB is not one you want running around the field. He's going to get snapped in two eventually.

(12-01-2021, 10:03 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:01 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]He's a mobile or dual threat qb. In the second half we started to play better on offense once he started to take off. 

I think we should look to Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen to see his future.

A skinny 6'6'' QB is not one you want running around the field. He's going to get snapped in two eventually.

Agreed, but then he'll fail one way or another. If his career ends from injury we may have won a few games before that. 

It wasn't you but I have asked for examples of qb's that fixed their accuracy issues. No reply yet. If this is easily fixable then there should be many examples but it seems hard to find. 

That's a problem...

(12-01-2021, 10:05 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:03 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]A skinny 6'6'' QB is not one you want running around the field. He's going to get snapped in two eventually.

Agreed, but then he'll fail one way or another. If his career ends from injury we may have won a few games before that. 

It wasn't you but I have asked for examples of qb's that fixed their accuracy issues. No reply yet. If this is easily fixable then there should be many examples but it seems hard to find. 

That's a problem...

Go watch Josh Allen's rookie tape and compare it to last year/this year.  Easy answer.

Derek Carr also springs to mind.  It's not as uncommon as you think.

Also, you may have missed it, but Jags receivers running the wrong routes or very inaccurate routes has been a hot topic after this week's press conferences. This makes accuracy a lot tougher for a rookie QB when receivers aren't where they are supposed to be.

(12-01-2021, 10:39 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:05 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, but then he'll fail one way or another. If his career ends from injury we may have won a few games before that. 

It wasn't you but I have asked for examples of qb's that fixed their accuracy issues. No reply yet. If this is easily fixable then there should be many examples but it seems hard to find. 

That's a problem...

Go watch Josh Allen's rookie tape and compare it to last year/this year.  Easy answer.

Derek Carr also springs to mind.  It's not as uncommon as you think.

Also, you may have missed it, but Jags receivers running the wrong routes or very inaccurate routes has been a hot topic after this week's press conferences. This makes accuracy a lot tougher for a rookie QB when receivers aren't where they are supposed to be.

Not to mention the clanging sounds that reverberate from the WRs hands that are loud enough to shatter glass windows.

(12-01-2021, 10:39 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:05 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, but then he'll fail one way or another. If his career ends from injury we may have won a few games before that. 

It wasn't you but I have asked for examples of qb's that fixed their accuracy issues. No reply yet. If this is easily fixable then there should be many examples but it seems hard to find. 

That's a problem...

Go watch Josh Allen's rookie tape and compare it to last year/this year.  Easy answer.

Derek Carr also springs to mind.  It's not as uncommon as you think.

Also, you may have missed it, but Jags receivers running the wrong routes or very inaccurate routes has been a hot topic after this week's press conferences. This makes accuracy a lot tougher for a rookie QB when receivers aren't where they are supposed to be.

Allen is a good example(and one I used as an example of where to look). That means we should try to bring in Daboll(or similar), right? Both because it would help fixing Lawrence's current problems and would help with a playbook that is tailormade to Lawrences' strengths?

If the current accuracy issues mostly are due to wr's(and I actually believe there is some merit to that argument) then off season focus should be on wr and te only. 

Of course if it is the receivers that is the problem then that most likely gets Bevell and Schottenheimer off the hook. I mean, what can they really do about that? The head coach or the wr coach on the other hand...

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(12-01-2021, 10:55 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:39 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Go watch Josh Allen's rookie tape and compare it to last year/this year.  Easy answer.

Derek Carr also springs to mind.  It's not as uncommon as you think.

Also, you may have missed it, but Jags receivers running the wrong routes or very inaccurate routes has been a hot topic after this week's press conferences. This makes accuracy a lot tougher for a rookie QB when receivers aren't where they are supposed to be.

Not to mention the clanging sounds that reverberate from the WRs hands that are loud enough to shatter glass windows.

Funny, but that's why I posted the link about Mac Jones in the other thread. 

McDaniels said Jones throws catchable balls. Their receivers are also pretty bad. 

I still don't think Lawrence is a bust but it's also weird how we should pretend he doesn't have accuracy issues or throws missiles to guys near him.

(12-01-2021, 10:05 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:03 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]A skinny 6'6'' QB is not one you want running around the field. He's going to get snapped in two eventually.

Agreed, but then he'll fail one way or another. If his career ends from injury we may have won a few games before that. 

It wasn't you but I have asked for examples of qb's that fixed their accuracy issues. No reply yet. If this is easily fixable then there should be many examples but it seems hard to find. 

That's a problem...

Amazing. I pointed out accuracy issues with Lawrence weeks ago and get called names and told I had no idea what I was talking about.  Now many of the same people calling me names is now seeing accuracy issues. Amazing!

(12-01-2021, 10:59 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:39 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Go watch Josh Allen's rookie tape and compare it to last year/this year.  Easy answer.

Derek Carr also springs to mind.  It's not as uncommon as you think.

Also, you may have missed it, but Jags receivers running the wrong routes or very inaccurate routes has been a hot topic after this week's press conferences. This makes accuracy a lot tougher for a rookie QB when receivers aren't where they are supposed to be.

Allen is a good example(and one I used as an example of where to look). That means we should try to bring in Daboll(or similar), right? Both because it would help fixing Lawrence's current problems and would help with a playbook that is tailormade to Lawrences' strengths?

If the current accuracy issues mostly are due to wr's(and I actually believe there is some merit to that argument) then off season focus should be on wr and te only. 

Of course if it is the receivers that is the problem then that most likely gets Bevell and Schottenheimer off the hook. I mean, what can they really do about that? The head coach or the wr coach on the other hand...

---

(12-01-2021, 10:55 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention the clanging sounds that reverberate from the WRs hands that are loud enough to shatter glass windows.

Funny, but that's why I posted the link about Mac Jones in the other thread. 

McDaniels said Jones throws catchable balls. Their receivers are also pretty bad. 

I still don't think Lawrence is a bust but it's also weird how we shouldn't pretend he has accuracy issues or throws missiles to guys near him.

Consider... what would Lawrence look like on the Pats team? Would belicheat have liked to draft Lawrence? What would Mac Jones look like on this team?

Sadly if we hadn't drafted Lawrence the front office may have drafted better. They flat coasted.

(12-01-2021, 02:13 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:59 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Allen is a good example(and one I used as an example of where to look). That means we should try to bring in Daboll(or similar), right? Both because it would help fixing Lawrence's current problems and would help with a playbook that is tailormade to Lawrences' strengths?

If the current accuracy issues mostly are due to wr's(and I actually believe there is some merit to that argument) then off season focus should be on wr and te only. 

Of course if it is the receivers that is the problem then that most likely gets Bevell and Schottenheimer off the hook. I mean, what can they really do about that? The head coach or the wr coach on the other hand...

---

Funny, but that's why I posted the link about Mac Jones in the other thread. 

McDaniels said Jones throws catchable balls. Their receivers are also pretty bad. 

I still don't think Lawrence is a bust but it's also weird how we shouldn't pretend he has accuracy issues or throws missiles to guys near him.

Consider... what would Lawrence look like on the Pats team? Would belicheat have liked to draft Lawrence? What would Mac Jones look like on this team?

Sadly if we hadn't drafted Lawrence the front office may have drafted better. They flat coasted.

That in all seriousness is the real question. The majority opinion on this board blame coaches and receivers for Lawrence's struggles. In that case Lawrence would have been just as good as Jones in New England and Jones would have been trash in Jacksonville. 

With Jones there's another angle. Before the draft it was rumored that the Niners traded up to get him and 'everyone' was either laughing or shaking their head at that. Why would the Niners do THAT? Do you think Jones would have been good on the Niners? I think so and I think it's not just the New England system with him. 

Of course this could mean that the Jaguars staff are particularly inept.

Frankly, regarding the other part of your post I wonder if it's because Lawrence isn't as good as advertised? I think they expected him to elevate everyone around him. Again, that could be another reason why the staff don't know what they're doing.

IMO, the jury is still out although I think it's clear he's better than Gabbert.

(12-01-2021, 02:13 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 10:59 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Allen is a good example(and one I used as an example of where to look). That means we should try to bring in Daboll(or similar), right? Both because it would help fixing Lawrence's current problems and would help with a playbook that is tailormade to Lawrences' strengths?

If the current accuracy issues mostly are due to wr's(and I actually believe there is some merit to that argument) then off season focus should be on wr and te only. 

Of course if it is the receivers that is the problem then that most likely gets Bevell and Schottenheimer off the hook. I mean, what can they really do about that? The head coach or the wr coach on the other hand...

---

Funny, but that's why I posted the link about Mac Jones in the other thread. 

McDaniels said Jones throws catchable balls. Their receivers are also pretty bad. 

I still don't think Lawrence is a bust but it's also weird how we shouldn't pretend he has accuracy issues or throws missiles to guys near him.

Consider... what would Lawrence look like on the Pats team? Would belicheat have liked to draft Lawrence? What would Mac Jones look like on this team?

Sadly if we hadn't drafted Lawrence the front office may have drafted better. They flat coasted.

Oh man....if we weren't in position to darft TLaw, we might not have the regime in place that we do. Would Urbz have jumped at the opportunity to start from scratch on a team picking 15th?

why am I salivating?

(12-01-2021, 03:28 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 02:13 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]Consider... what would Lawrence look like on the Pats team? Would belicheat have liked to draft Lawrence? What would Mac Jones look like on this team?

Sadly if we hadn't drafted Lawrence the front office may have drafted better. They flat coasted.

Oh man....if we weren't in position to darft TLaw, we might not have the regime in place that we do. Would Urbz have jumped at the opportunity to start from scratch on a team picking 15th?

why am I salivating?

Great hypothetical.

I think there is zero chance Urban takes the job if the Jags had picked anywhere but #1. He thought it would be an easy gig with Trevor.

I think I would rather have Trevor and Urban (because we all know Urban is about to dip) than any of the other QBs with whoever would have been the coach. I still think Trevor is going to be really special.

(12-01-2021, 02:24 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-01-2021, 02:13 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]Consider... what would Lawrence look like on the Pats team? Would belicheat have liked to draft Lawrence? What would Mac Jones look like on this team?

Sadly if we hadn't drafted Lawrence the front office may have drafted better. They flat coasted.

That in all seriousness is the real question. The majority opinion on this board blame coaches and receivers for Lawrence's struggles. In that case Lawrence would have been just as good as Jones in New England and Jones would have been trash in Jacksonville. 

With Jones there's another angle. Before the draft it was rumored that the Niners traded up to get him and 'everyone' was either laughing or shaking their head at that. Why would the Niners do THAT? Do you think Jones would have been good on the Niners? I think so and I think it's not just the New England system with him. 

Of course this could mean that the Jaguars staff are particularly inept.

Frankly, regarding the other part of your post I wonder if it's because Lawrence isn't as good as advertised? I think they expected him to elevate everyone around him. Again, that could be another reason why the staff don't know what they're doing.

IMO, the jury is still out although I think it's clear he's better than Gabbert.

He’s not on par with Belichick, but Shanahan is a solid bet as an offensive genius. He is very good at scheming for his players he has. Look no further then Deebo Samuel for example. He also has oriented that offense around Garrapolo, who isn’t exactly elite. It’s geared to maximize his potential success rather then fit a square peg in

Gabbert has a SB ring, so he's obviously better.....

Bortles is better than both of them at this point