Bullseye
(04-02-2022, 01:24 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]ok assignment complete. my thoughts for better or worse guys.
Bullseye1. How many new starters do you expect to come out of our free agency haul? Who are they?
I believe we will begin the year having all of them start at the beginning of the year. By Mid season Fatukasi and Aluokun will be rotational players. Key will supply depth. Zay Jones will fall into a receiver rotation.
2. How many immediate starters do you expect to come out of this draft?
None. Now that doesn't mean they will not play, they will just need some seasoning before consistency and trust is established. This will be a good thing guys, not a reflection of any of our selections. One or two will begin to flash and stand out in the second half of the season. This is highly dependent upon the injury situation that could force a couple into more predominate roles. I would view that as a negative....
3. Are there any guys drafted last year that did not start for whatever reason last year to be starters this year? Name them and if applicable, name their positions.
Obviously, Etienne and Cisco but, who knows here. I am really hoping Etienne provides the impact expected and Cisco lives up to the flashes seen last year. I am intrigued to see how Daniel Thomas does this year in this new system. (he also flashed, but on very limited play time) Add Little to this.
4. Given the number of new starters combined from the questions listed above, would you say that is a good or bad total? Why? Do you think the number of new starters is a reflection of a job well done in terms of player acquisition, a function of how bad the roster was in the first place, the need for newer players to fit the new schemes, or some combination? Will the players be clear upgrades or scheme fillers?
There is always increased turnover even at the college level when the HC is changed it is predictable and a normally a good thing. (we have had years of a good thing no?) Being a 3-14 team something clearly needed to be done but action can sometimes be confused with progress. Good or bad ? No one will know that answer till sometime during the season next year despite many on this proclaiming they did. I will say on the surface our roster appears to be improved on paper. The link below to see the acquisitions all in one place in a depth chart format. Disclaimer I am not responsible for who is listed as starter so take it with a grain of salt.....
https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/jax
5. Do your expectations rise or fall depending upon who has the most sway in the draft room between Baalke or Pederson?
Actually, since we will never really know how that works I just can't get myself to spend the effort worrying about it. I do believe we have a little more going for us this year. First, we totally rebuilt the scouting department last year so they had their hands full getting organized and getting ready for the draft. This year they have had a year to build their processes and acclimate. This should lead to better/consistent player evaluations. Second, I really do not believe Urban had much positive input to the process last year. When faced with having to make a decision or choose he thought more about how to delegate blame if the outcome was not positive. (corporate Teflon) Our new coach doesn't seem to have that weakness and isn't going to "spend a year" getting to know the Pro game.
6. Would your expectations be any higher if Baalke had been fired or an EVP beeh placed above him as promised by Khan?
We are Jaguar fans, EVERY draftee should always be all-pro their first year or they are a bust. How could they be higher? We live in a fantasy world during this time of the year because real life would make us pull our hair out! Last year we even were able as a group to convince our self the WR room was really strong!!
7. Of all of the positions deemed to be needs on this team, what's the one position you somehow think will not be addressed by round 3?
Center, right now I see that as our biggest immediate need. Shatley is our only center at the moment. He actually in my opinion is an average center currently. We do however need someone as backup. We have no one currently. I am also a bit concerned about the tackle position as CAM is a one year rental. ANY tackle coming out of college takes at least half a season to get acclimated to this level. Even our only HOF player took some time and I don't see anyone of Boselli's level. Next year is too late to address this. The current regime seems to me have sat down and made a comprehensive plan. They are moving along executing that plan and we just have to trust this will yield the results to get us where we want. It is getting interesting in a different way this year.
I will give my answers a little later. I want to hear your thoughts.
1. A curious answer on a couple of levels. First, why do you think Oluokun, Fatukasi and Zay Jones will be demoted by midseason? You indicate they will be starters early on, but fall into a rotation? Are starters incapable of being in a rotation? Second,how many new starters do you think we have from this free agency class? Are you counting these three that will fall into various rotations as starters or no? What of the remaining free agents?
All three players are good solid veterans. They can be depended on to be where they are suppose to be and play consistently. The coaches will trust this and early on it will result in more playing time for them over the rookies. Over the course of the season I am expecting 3 of our rookies to develop to the point the coaches are confident enough to give them equal or greater playing time than these three. Demotion probably is not the adjective I would use. All three are on 3 year deals with a 2 year out. Unless they really show out I would expect they were signed to raise the level of our depth after next year.
Scherff, Kirk and Engram will all start, I had forgotten about Treadwell but my best guess is he will provide receiver depth. I guess you can use this answer for question #2 as well. My bad for being vague...
2. If after drafting at the top of each round, this team doesn't have any new starters coming out of the draft, that would be very disappointing to me, unless you were to suggest that Pederson didn't believe in starting rookies. But that would be problematic for me as the season wore on. At minimum, there would be worry about whether thee guys were busts.
3 draftees, (D-lineman, a WR and a LB) but they have to do the work get consistent, gain the confidence of their teammates/coaches and push their way into playing time. See the answer above.
3. First time I've seen Daniel Thomas included in this. An interesting choice. He has flashed some.
Yea, Auburn grad here so I like watching guys from my school. Ford is a Tiger as well.
4. "...action can sometimes be confused with progress." I like that quote!
5. Fair enough.
6.
.gif "Laughing")
Spoken like a true Jaguars fan!
Yea they even have my name on the wall in the stadium for being foolish enough to buy season tickets all these years.
7. I am concerned about what is planned at LT.
Yea, so am I. Actually I am interested in how they are planning to rebuild this entire O-line. The only thing we know for sure is Scherff will be playing guard. We just have to trust their plan and watch it unfold. Now until the draft is the season of misdirection by all teams and the sportswriters they have influence over on their intent so the cards are close to the vest. If I were Peterson I would get with Balke and the Kahn's make a full size poster of our draft choice. Cover it with a cloth put a camera on it and watch to see who peeks to leak it. Of course it would be of Ronald McDonald in a Jags uniform...
Sorry for the late response just joined the Covid alumni club...
(04-04-2022, 10:04 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 09:54 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So if they drafted a Trey McBride at the top of round 3 giving them the two TEs they need, and an outside WR somewhere appropriate (#33?) would that still be forcing the 12 personnel grouping or would that ve a natural transition?
I have serious concerns with McBride's ability to play inline also with his lack of size, so that would scare me even more lol. My main worry is that we have all of Kirk, Engram, and Arnold that are all mainly stuck playing not outside WR and not inline TE. It's going to be really hard to maximize Kirk and Engram (I don't really care about both Engram and Arnold getting theirs) since they basically win the same way. I think they are going to have Kirk playing outside a lot, and it's going to be a waste of his talent.
We need an outside WR extremely bad, but that's just a general team need not my specific concern with how Pederson's Eagles offense would struggle to work here.
My fault for restricting the TE at the top of round 3 to Mcbride. I didn't think anyone would think McBride is too small and incapable of adding weight to be a true Y. So I amend the hypothetical to drafting an appropriately sized talented TE this year.
What I'm getting at is if the Jaguars get the traditonal Y, whomever that may be, and a sufficiently talented X, is that draft, does that still constitutes "forcing" the 12 personnel philosophy on the team?
(04-04-2022, 09:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 08:58 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I just think Little couldn’t beat out Taylor and Cisco couldn’t earn a starting spot at either safety spot from jump street, that’s not a good sign.
Don’t expect much out of Evan Engram either. Both RBs are coming off injuries so there’s a huge question mark at that spot. I have no idea what they will do with Shenault. He has no trade value. Maybe they go get the best available WR in the 2nd and 3rd. I gotta weird feeling Little will be a let down but I hope he wins a starting spot on the oline. I hope Cisco becomes a starter too.
You can't take what Urban did as "this player couldn't beat out this other player."
Cisco never even got the chance to start until after Urban was fired and he looked great.
Little actually did well when he played minus some normal rookie errors and he was coming off of not playing for two years. I could see Little winning the RT spot and us making Taylor move to LG. It would make the most sense imo.
In regards to Little not "beating out" Taylor, you also have to remember that Little exclusively played left tackle in college. Right tackle would have been a brand new position for him. While I think left tackles can generally transition to right tackle, it is an adjustment that can't be made on a dime. Everything is reversed. As such, it is understandable that the rookie Little who not only was new to the NFL but new to the position, might initially struggle when compared to a veteran. I'm also unclear whether Little ever got "beat out" by Taylor. Was he even really in competition at right tackle? Being a left tackle, the coaches might have focused most of his practice time at left tackle in order to be Cam's backup with Richardson practicing mostly at the right tackle position. I expect the story may be very different this year assuming Little goes into training camp with right tackle as his primary position.
(04-04-2022, 10:24 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Bullseye
(04-02-2022, 01:24 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]ok assignment complete. my thoughts for better or worse guys.
Bullseye1. How many new starters do you expect to come out of our free agency haul? Who are they?
I believe we will begin the year having all of them start at the beginning of the year. By Mid season Fatukasi and Aluokun will be rotational players. Key will supply depth. Zay Jones will fall into a receiver rotation.
2. How many immediate starters do you expect to come out of this draft?
None. Now that doesn't mean they will not play, they will just need some seasoning before consistency and trust is established. This will be a good thing guys, not a reflection of any of our selections. One or two will begin to flash and stand out in the second half of the season. This is highly dependent upon the injury situation that could force a couple into more predominate roles. I would view that as a negative....
3. Are there any guys drafted last year that did not start for whatever reason last year to be starters this year? Name them and if applicable, name their positions.
Obviously, Etienne and Cisco but, who knows here. I am really hoping Etienne provides the impact expected and Cisco lives up to the flashes seen last year. I am intrigued to see how Daniel Thomas does this year in this new system. (he also flashed, but on very limited play time) Add Little to this.
4. Given the number of new starters combined from the questions listed above, would you say that is a good or bad total? Why? Do you think the number of new starters is a reflection of a job well done in terms of player acquisition, a function of how bad the roster was in the first place, the need for newer players to fit the new schemes, or some combination? Will the players be clear upgrades or scheme fillers?
There is always increased turnover even at the college level when the HC is changed it is predictable and a normally a good thing. (we have had years of a good thing no?) Being a 3-14 team something clearly needed to be done but action can sometimes be confused with progress. Good or bad ? No one will know that answer till sometime during the season next year despite many on this proclaiming they did. I will say on the surface our roster appears to be improved on paper. The link below to see the acquisitions all in one place in a depth chart format. Disclaimer I am not responsible for who is listed as starter so take it with a grain of salt.....
https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/jax
5. Do your expectations rise or fall depending upon who has the most sway in the draft room between Baalke or Pederson?
Actually, since we will never really know how that works I just can't get myself to spend the effort worrying about it. I do believe we have a little more going for us this year. First, we totally rebuilt the scouting department last year so they had their hands full getting organized and getting ready for the draft. This year they have had a year to build their processes and acclimate. This should lead to better/consistent player evaluations. Second, I really do not believe Urban had much positive input to the process last year. When faced with having to make a decision or choose he thought more about how to delegate blame if the outcome was not positive. (corporate Teflon) Our new coach doesn't seem to have that weakness and isn't going to "spend a year" getting to know the Pro game.
6. Would your expectations be any higher if Baalke had been fired or an EVP beeh placed above him as promised by Khan?
We are Jaguar fans, EVERY draftee should always be all-pro their first year or they are a bust. How could they be higher? We live in a fantasy world during this time of the year because real life would make us pull our hair out! Last year we even were able as a group to convince our self the WR room was really strong!!
7. Of all of the positions deemed to be needs on this team, what's the one position you somehow think will not be addressed by round 3?
Center, right now I see that as our biggest immediate need. Shatley is our only center at the moment. He actually in my opinion is an average center currently. We do however need someone as backup. We have no one currently. I am also a bit concerned about the tackle position as CAM is a one year rental. ANY tackle coming out of college takes at least half a season to get acclimated to this level. Even our only HOF player took some time and I don't see anyone of Boselli's level. Next year is too late to address this. The current regime seems to me have sat down and made a comprehensive plan. They are moving along executing that plan and we just have to trust this will yield the results to get us where we want. It is getting interesting in a different way this year.
I will give my answers a little later. I want to hear your thoughts.
1. A curious answer on a couple of levels. First, why do you think Oluokun, Fatukasi and Zay Jones will be demoted by midseason? You indicate they will be starters early on, but fall into a rotation? Are starters incapable of being in a rotation? Second,how many new starters do you think we have from this free agency class? Are you counting these three that will fall into various rotations as starters or no? What of the remaining free agents?
All three players are good solid veterans. They can be depended on to be where they are suppose to be and play consistently. The coaches will trust this and early on it will result in more playing time for them over the rookies. Over the course of the season I am expecting 3 of our rookies to develop to the point the coaches are confident enough to give them equal or greater playing time than these three. Demotion probably is not the adjective I would use. All three are on 3 year deals with a 2 year out. Unless they really show out I would expect they were signed to raise the level of our depth after next year.
Scherff, Kirk and Engram will all start, I had forgotten about Treadwell but my best guess is he will provide receiver depth. I guess you can use this answer for question #2 as well. My bad for being vague...
2. If after drafting at the top of each round, this team doesn't have any new starters coming out of the draft, that would be very disappointing to me, unless you were to suggest that Pederson didn't believe in starting rookies. But that would be problematic for me as the season wore on. At minimum, there would be worry about whether thee guys were busts.
3 draftees, (D-lineman, a WR and a LB) but they have to do the work get consistent, gain the confidence of their teammates/coaches and push their way into playing time. See the answer above.
3. First time I've seen Daniel Thomas included in this. An interesting choice. He has flashed some.
Yea, Auburn grad here so I like watching guys from my school. Ford is a Tiger as well.
4. "...action can sometimes be confused with progress." I like that quote!
5. Fair enough.
6. Spoken like a true Jaguars fan!
Yea they even have my name on the wall in the stadium for being foolish enough to buy season tickets all these years.
7. I am concerned about what is planned at LT.
Yea, so am I. Actually I am interested in how they are planning to rebuild this entire O-line. The only thing we know for sure is Scherff will be playing guard. We just have to trust their plan and watch it unfold. Now until the draft is the season of misdirection by all teams and the sportswriters they have influence over on their intent so the cards are close to the vest. If I were Peterson I would get with Balke and the Kahn's make a full size poster of our draft choice. Cover it with a cloth put a camera on it and watch to see who peeks to leak it. Of course it would be of Ronald McDonald in a Jags uniform...
Sorry for the late response just joined the Covid alumni club...
Sorry to hear about you graduating from Auburn. We were getting along so well, too.
No, seriously, I'm sorry to hear about your Covid infection. Hope you are well now.
(04-04-2022, 10:26 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 09:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]You can't take what Urban did as "this player couldn't beat out this other player."
Cisco never even got the chance to start until after Urban was fired and he looked great.
Little actually did well when he played minus some normal rookie errors and he was coming off of not playing for two years. I could see Little winning the RT spot and us making Taylor move to LG. It would make the most sense imo.
In regards to Little not "beating out" Taylor, you also have to remember that Little exclusively played left tackle in college. Right tackle would have been a brand new position for him. While I think left tackles can generally transition to right tackle, it is an adjustment that can't be made on a dime. Everything is reversed. As such, it is understandable that the rookie Little who not only was new to the NFL but new to the position, might initially struggle when compared to a veteran. I'm also unclear whether Little ever got "beat out" by Taylor. Was he even really in competition at right tackle? Being a left tackle, the coaches might have focused most of his practice time at left tackle in order to be Cam's backup with Richardson practicing mostly at the right tackle position. I expect the story may be very different this year assuming Little goes into training camp with right tackle as his primary position.
And that's completely valid.
I just don't get why some are thinking Little or Cisco might be busts when Cisco actually looked really good when finally getting a start at the end of the season and Little showed glimpses of being the tackle people thought he was. He looked great filling in for Cam as well when needed.
Urban 100% mismanaged the roster as evident by how many times he tried to force Carlos Hyde out onto the field.
(04-04-2022, 08:35 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 09:10 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not as worried about starts. I'm more concerned with performance. Guys taken earlier in the darft or signed to big contracts should be able to win out any competition for a starting spot, and also produce when the snaps starts counting. If they aren't starting or producing because we found someone later in the darft or as a cheaper FA pick, I ain't gonna complain if we're doing what it takes to be competitive. Period.
For 5, unless Doug2.0 says "I have the conn", or someone above him asserts the same, I don't see how any of us can even allege the level of sway he has. My only hope is that if he has a type, he makes that known to Baalke and the scouts, and they don't send him a bunch of mis-fit players that force him out of his comfort zone. Again, I don't care who is ultimately making the choices, so long as we're not compromising the foundation we've already begun building and the team shows promise.
6 is a good Q. Thusfar in 2022, I can't say Baalke has been the nightmare some clamor him to be. Coach and GM appear to be playing nicely together, the team is working to address need, and we're not mortgaging the future to build in the present. Would it be much different if we brought in Spielman? I don't think so. A lot of the spending we've done was likely at the direction of the owner, or with his approval to open the coffers, so all Spielman would have done was relay the message and oversee the strategy we deployed. I don't think an EVP changes that strategy or the targets, honestly.
Now if we rolled with Lefty and Wilson? First, would there have been an EVP in the mix too, or would that have been a further dealbreaker? I dunno. But just with the two of them working in conjuction, I think it would have taken a little more time to build the scouting and evaluation teams. Had we acted in early Jan, though, that's plenty of time for the coach and GM to review prior footage to evaluate the present roster, understand who does or does not fit in the future plans, and shape their plan. FA may have been different, and would Khan have been so open to release the checkbook with a new GM that was essentially foisted upon him by his HC hire? I suspect not, although the wiser move is to spend now and allow the team to begin setting aside future cap for the big hits that should come if our recent picks are deemed long-term fixtures.
7 will probably be Center. I don't see Linderbaum falling, and I think the remaining prospects fit better from 4 or later. WR might be the dark horse answer. If we're not moving around, I think a lot of the WR that will be available when we pick are similar to guys we already have on the roster and would be redundant. That, and I see a lot of the runs will likely leave a lot of value picks at other positions, so the patient or not desperate drafters will come away with steals this year, but maybe not at the flashiest position.
Apologies for the textwall
(emphasis added)
Thanks to you and everyone else for your replies.
As for #6, the portion in bold is interesting. Considering how excited Khan was about the UM hire, why wouldn't he spend more last year like he did this year? I guess it was a blessing in disguise he didn't given how big of a melt down UM had.
Certainly no need to apologize for any text wall.
Although he obviously had to approve it, I personally don't see too much evidence to suggest that the change in spending this year was driven by Khan. I think it would have happened if Meyer had returned. Maybe they would have targeted some different players, but I thought they would be more aggressive in free agency this year. General Managers often take a different approach in year one of a rebuild versus year two. I think Baalke/Meyer knew that they needed more than one off season and one draft to turn this team around. They were also going to be using a rookie quarterback in 2021 and knew that weren't going to be competitive until at least 2022. As such, they made the strategic long term decision to roll over a significant portion of the available cap space and conduct the major free agency spending in 2022.
(04-04-2022, 10:26 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]What I'm getting at is if the Jaguars get the traditonal Y, whomever that may be, and a sufficiently talented X, is that draft, does that still constitutes "forcing" the 12 personnel philosophy on the team?
It's less what we don't have, and more the inflexibility of what we already have. If we're running 12 then we have yet to be acquired unknown X and unknown inline in the game, Marvin or Zay at Z, and Engram in the slot. Our top 10 paid WR is on the bench.
What would be more likely is having yet to be acquired unknown X and unknown inline in the game, Kirk shoehorned into Z where we have 3 seasons of proof of him being less effective, Marvin and Zay on the bench despite being paid starter money, and Engram in the slot.
Suffice to say, fleshing out these possibilities has not assuaged my worries. I just don't think there is a good way to run 12 personnel regularly with the pieces we have. We can run some bastardized likely far less effective version of it, or hopefully Pederson changes his philosophy to fit his personnel like the best coaches do and we run a whole lot of 11.
(04-04-2022, 10:26 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 09:37 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]You can't take what Urban did as "this player couldn't beat out this other player."
Cisco never even got the chance to start until after Urban was fired and he looked great.
Little actually did well when he played minus some normal rookie errors and he was coming off of not playing for two years. I could see Little winning the RT spot and us making Taylor move to LG. It would make the most sense imo.
In regards to Little not "beating out" Taylor, you also have to remember that Little exclusively played left tackle in college. Right tackle would have been a brand new position for him. While I think left tackles can generally transition to right tackle, it is an adjustment that can't be made on a dime. Everything is reversed. As such, it is understandable that the rookie Little who not only was new to the NFL but new to the position, might initially struggle when compared to a veteran. I'm also unclear whether Little ever got "beat out" by Taylor. Was he even really in competition at right tackle? Being a left tackle, the coaches might have focused most of his practice time at left tackle in order to be Cam's backup with Richardson practicing mostly at the right tackle position. I expect the story may be very different this year assuming Little goes into training camp with right tackle as his primary position.
Interesting you mentioned that.
Uche Nwaneri hosts videos on Facebook. About a week or so ago, he talked about linemen moving from one side to the next. Specifically he mentioned his experience as a left hander moving from left G to RG. He was saying as counter intuitive as it may be, he actually found it to be more comfortable in the right side. Isn't Walker Little left handed? I heard he got time at RT in practice. I wonder how he did. Did his experience mirror Unche's?
Maybe because I've seen him play LT, but a part of me wants to keep him at LT because I think he can develop into a good one and we wouldn't have to spend any more premium draft capital at the position and I haven't seen him at RT. But part of me believes in time he would be a considerable upgrade over Taylor, who is a major liability at RT.
(04-04-2022, 10:45 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 10:26 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]In regards to Little not "beating out" Taylor, you also have to remember that Little exclusively played left tackle in college. Right tackle would have been a brand new position for him. While I think left tackles can generally transition to right tackle, it is an adjustment that can't be made on a dime. Everything is reversed. As such, it is understandable that the rookie Little who not only was new to the NFL but new to the position, might initially struggle when compared to a veteran. I'm also unclear whether Little ever got "beat out" by Taylor. Was he even really in competition at right tackle? Being a left tackle, the coaches might have focused most of his practice time at left tackle in order to be Cam's backup with Richardson practicing mostly at the right tackle position. I expect the story may be very different this year assuming Little goes into training camp with right tackle as his primary position.
And that's completely valid.
I just don't get why some are thinking Little or Cisco might be busts when Cisco actually looked really good when finally getting a start at the end of the season and Little showed glimpses of being the tackle people thought he was. He looked great filling in for Cam as well when needed.
Urban 100% mismanaged the roster as evident by how many times he tried to force Carlos Hyde out onto the field.
When he drafted at RB early with a boatload of greater needs I had a strong feeling he had done near-zero diligence on the roster he inherited.
That hunch turned out to be correct.
The way he completely screwed the pooch on TE and RB between April and October was the perfect setup for his complete squandering of his draft picks at safety and tackle. It was preposterous.
What an inept [BLEEP] buffoon that guy turned out to be. I still can't type these facts without wanting to strangle him.
Anybody that thinks Cisco and Little were legit not playing because Taylor and Wingard were BETTER options needs to reassess the facts of what happened last year.
(04-04-2022, 09:15 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2022, 05:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]This year's draft class of kickers are uniformly rated as UDFA material and it's unlikely any are drafted.
I was also hopeful we might draft a kicker late (222 or 225) and solve that issue, but folks here pointed out this news to me and I think they are correct.
Dicker and the guy from LSU should be worth consideration. I think the punter class is pretty decent though.
I'll admit that I haven't studied draft prospects at kicker. If it is a historically bad draft for kickers that might change my mind. However, I will say that the fact that we have 6 draft picks in the 6th and 7th rounds this year factors heavily into my position. I don't see 6 players drafted that late making our 53 man roster and we need more competition at kicker. Even if a player is projected to be a UDFA, that doesn't guarantee that the Jaguars get him. The kicker may choose to sign with a different team. If we think one kicker is better than the rest, it still would likely make sense to use a late round pick in order to lock up our first choice at kicker. If there are hypothetically multiple kickers who we consider to be virtually equal prospects, then yeah, it makes sense to skip it.
(04-04-2022, 08:58 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I just think Little couldn’t beat out Taylor and Cisco couldn’t earn a starting spot at either safety spot from jump street, that’s not a good sign.
Don’t expect much out of Evan Engram either. Both RBs are coming off injuries so there’s a huge question mark at that spot. I have no idea what they will do with Shenault. He has no trade value. Maybe they go get the best available WR in the 2nd and 3rd. I gotta weird feeling Little will be a let down but I hope he wins a starting spot on the oline. I hope Cisco becomes a starter too.
I tend to question whether that was a matter of their capability or some bias that the coach(es) had about starting inexperienced players early. I don't know that we saw enough from either guy last year to fully say whether or not they will be fixtures at their position, but I'm more comfortable with Little and Cisco as longer-term options than had we stood pat on guys like Wingard and Taylor.
Both guys appeared able to play once they finally saw the field, whether that was the case all along or a matter of development.
Like you, I'm not expecting anything groundbreaking from Engram. I think he and Arnold end up being fairly comparable to each other - decent, but nothing that draws a defense's focus away.
(04-04-2022, 11:10 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 09:15 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Dicker and the guy from LSU should be worth consideration. I think the punter class is pretty decent though.
I'll admit that I haven't studied draft prospects at kicker. If it is a historically bad draft for kickers that might change my mind. However, I will say that the fact that we have 6 draft picks in the 6th and 7th rounds this year factors heavily into my position. I don't see 6 players drafted that late making our 53 man roster and we need more competition at kicker. Even if a player is projected to be a UDFA, that doesn't guarantee that the Jaguars get him. The kicker may choose to sign with a different team. If we think one kicker is better than the rest, it still would likely make sense to use a late round pick in order to lock up our first choice at kicker. If there are hypothetically multiple kickers who we consider to be virtually equal prospects, then yeah, it makes sense to skip it.
Great point. I was cool with our kicker last year after he banged a 53 game winner, but let’s be honest....that was everything he had. If it was madden, he caught the power meter at the very top of that one.
If we need a game winner from 55,56, or 57 yards out, it ain’t happening. We have to get a kicker before week 1.
I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Lambo back in for a long look.
(04-04-2022, 07:45 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2022, 01:45 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I am hoping Pederson is a flexible coach that will mold his offense around his personnel and not try to shoehorn our personnel into his old Eagles' offenses.
Simply put, if Pederson forces this team to run a lot of 12 personnel it's going to be a bad time.
Do you think this because we don't have the number of TEs in quantity and quality to run it?
If so, how many more TEs does this team need?
If it's some other position(s), what positions are needed?
I’d like to draft a good TE prospect and dump Farrell, who’s just a guy drafted for his Urban connection.
(04-04-2022, 11:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 10:45 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]And that's completely valid.
I just don't get why some are thinking Little or Cisco might be busts when Cisco actually looked really good when finally getting a start at the end of the season and Little showed glimpses of being the tackle people thought he was. He looked great filling in for Cam as well when needed.
Urban 100% mismanaged the roster as evident by how many times he tried to force Carlos Hyde out onto the field.
When he drafted at RB early with a boatload of greater needs I had a strong feeling he had done near-zero diligence on the roster he inherited.
That hunch turned out to be correct.
The way he completely screwed the pooch on TE and RB between April and October was the perfect setup for his complete squandering of his draft picks at safety and tackle. It was preposterous.
What an inept [BLEEP] buffoon that guy turned out to be. I still can't type these facts without wanting to strangle him.
Anybody that thinks Cisco and Little were legit not playing because Taylor and Wingard were BETTER options needs to reassess the facts of what happened last year.
This is what happens when a clueless owner hires a college coach with no NFL experience who admits to not even watching NFL games. Who would've ever thought it wouldn't work? Oh yeah, virtually the entire message board!
(04-04-2022, 11:10 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 09:15 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Dicker and the guy from LSU should be worth consideration. I think the punter class is pretty decent though.
I'll admit that I haven't studied draft prospects at kicker. If it is a historically bad draft for kickers that might change my mind. However, I will say that the fact that we have 6 draft picks in the 6th and 7th rounds this year factors heavily into my position. I don't see 6 players drafted that late making our 53 man roster and we need more competition at kicker. Even if a player is projected to be a UDFA, that doesn't guarantee that the Jaguars get him. The kicker may choose to sign with a different team. If we think one kicker is better than the rest, it still would likely make sense to use a late round pick in order to lock up our first choice at kicker. If there are hypothetically multiple kickers who we consider to be virtually equal prospects, then yeah, it makes sense to skip it.
I do. Especially at WR. As it stands now, our receiving unit is no better than it was last season.
(04-06-2022, 02:06 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-04-2022, 11:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]When he drafted at RB early with a boatload of greater needs I had a strong feeling he had done near-zero diligence on the roster he inherited.
That hunch turned out to be correct.
The way he completely screwed the pooch on TE and RB between April and October was the perfect setup for his complete squandering of his draft picks at safety and tackle. It was preposterous.
What an inept [BLEEP] buffoon that guy turned out to be. I still can't type these facts without wanting to strangle him.
Anybody that thinks Cisco and Little were legit not playing because Taylor and Wingard were BETTER options needs to reassess the facts of what happened last year.
This is what happens when a clueless owner hires a college coach with no NFL experience who admits to not even watching NFL games. Who would've ever thought it wouldn't work? Oh yeah, virtually the entire message board!
(04-04-2022, 11:10 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll admit that I haven't studied draft prospects at kicker. If it is a historically bad draft for kickers that might change my mind. However, I will say that the fact that we have 6 draft picks in the 6th and 7th rounds this year factors heavily into my position. I don't see 6 players drafted that late making our 53 man roster and we need more competition at kicker. Even if a player is projected to be a UDFA, that doesn't guarantee that the Jaguars get him. The kicker may choose to sign with a different team. If we think one kicker is better than the rest, it still would likely make sense to use a late round pick in order to lock up our first choice at kicker. If there are hypothetically multiple kickers who we consider to be virtually equal prospects, then yeah, it makes sense to skip it.
I do. Especially at WR. As it stands now, our receiving unit is no better than it was last season.
You keep repeating that. But it simply is not true. Kirk is better than every WR we have on the roster. Zay Jones is at least the 3rd best, depending on how much Marvin still has in the tank. I agree that we're still looking for an X than can be a difference maker. But if they manage to draft one, the unit will be head and shoulders better than last year, accounting for Chark's injury.
(04-06-2022, 06:24 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2022, 02:06 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is what happens when a clueless owner hires a college coach with no NFL experience who admits to not even watching NFL games. Who would've ever thought it wouldn't work? Oh yeah, virtually the entire message board!
I do. Especially at WR. As it stands now, our receiving unit is no better than it was last season.
You keep repeating that. But it simply is not true. Kirk is better than every WR we have on the roster. Zay Jones is at least the 3rd best, depending on how much Marvin still has in the tank. I agree that we're still looking for an X than can be a difference maker. But if they manage to draft one, the unit will be head and shoulders better than last year, accounting for Chark's injury.
What makes me question that is his career to date had been in a place where;s he's never been the #1 guy. From Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green, and even Rondale Moore, he's had guys around him good enough to take the attention of the opposition's best defenders away from him. I don't think he has that in Jacksonville yet, even if Evan Engram is as good as we hope. I wonder if he can be as effective with more attention being placed on him defensively. From a skills perspective, he may well be better than our other WRs. But whether from the outside or the slot, I don't think we have the guys around him to enable him to be productive.
(04-06-2022, 08:44 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2022, 06:24 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]You keep repeating that. But it simply is not true. Kirk is better than every WR we have on the roster. Zay Jones is at least the 3rd best, depending on how much Marvin still has in the tank. I agree that we're still looking for an X than can be a difference maker. But if they manage to draft one, the unit will be head and shoulders better than last year, accounting for Chark's injury.
What makes me question that is his career to date had been in a place where;s he's never been the #1 guy. From Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green, and even Rondale More, he's had guys around him good enough to take the attention of the opposition's best defenders away from him. I don't think he has that in Jacksonville yet, even if Even Engram is as good as we hope. I wonder if he can be as effective with more attention being placed on him defensively. From a skills perspective, he may well be better than our other WRs. But whether from the outside or the slot, I don't think we have the guys around him to enable him to be productive.
Can't say I disagree but I think it's a risk the Jags had to take.
The Rockets didn't know if Harden was going to be elite without Westbrook and Durant. Bills took a chance that Diggs can be a true #1 without Thielan next to him. I don't think Kirk has reached his ceiling yet but I also don't think he's going to be an All-Pro even though his contract would lead you to believe he is. I'm really excited to see him in teal this season.
(04-06-2022, 08:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2022, 08:44 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]What makes me question that is his career to date had been in a place where;s he's never been the #1 guy. From Larry Fitzgerald, DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green, and even Rondale More, he's had guys around him good enough to take the attention of the opposition's best defenders away from him. I don't think he has that in Jacksonville yet, even if Even Engram is as good as we hope. I wonder if he can be as effective with more attention being placed on him defensively. From a skills perspective, he may well be better than our other WRs. But whether from the outside or the slot, I don't think we have the guys around him to enable him to be productive.
Can't say I disagree but I think it's a risk the Jags had to take.
The Rockets didn't know if Harden was going to be elite without Westbrook and Durant. Bills took a chance that Diggs can be a true #1 without Thielan next to him. I don't think Kirk has reached his ceiling yet but I also don't think he's going to be an All-Pro even though his contract would lead you to believe he is. I'm really excited to see him in teal this season.
All-Pro means first team all-NFL, which would mean he would have to be in the top-3 WRs in the league. Does his contract match up with that? No. It does not. He's only in the top-5 in cash received this year, and that's only because he just signed his contract and received a signing bonus.
Christian Kirk's average per year for his contract is tied for ELEVENTH.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/202...r/average/
And I guarantee you, as other WRs sign new contracts, he will slip to 14th, and then to 17th, and so on.
(04-06-2022, 09:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-06-2022, 08:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Can't say I disagree but I think it's a risk the Jags had to take.
The Rockets didn't know if Harden was going to be elite without Westbrook and Durant. Bills took a chance that Diggs can be a true #1 without Thielan next to him. I don't think Kirk has reached his ceiling yet but I also don't think he's going to be an All-Pro even though his contract would lead you to believe he is. I'm really excited to see him in teal this season.
All-Pro means first team all-NFL, which would mean he would have to be in the top-3 WRs in the league. Does his contract match up with that? No. It does not. He's only in the top-5 in cash received this year, and that's only because he just signed his contract and received a signing bonus.
Christian Kirk's average per year for his contract is tied for ELEVENTH.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/202...r/average/
Sure. However, when he signed his deal, he was higher than 11th. Then DJ Moore, Adams, Hill, and Diggs got contract extensions (which we all knew would happen anyway). Then will come Chase, DK, Deebo, AJ Brown and McLaurin. So while Kirk is considered high now, it won't be top 15 for very long. I still think people expect him to perform like a lot of these guys because his salary is closer to the top guys.