Quote:Kap might light the flag on fire this weekend or step on it and some on here would think that's okay too
Yep. To me, no one person should put themselves before the very reason they have the right to "free speech", the flag.
Quote:No single race or group of people are the only ones who are oppressed. IMO, none are oppressed.
Oppressed to me is just a fancy word for victim. Everyone likes to play the victim these days and it's getting old, fast.
Quote:Oppressed to me is just a fancy word for victim. Everyone likes to play the victim these days and it's getting old, fast.
Amen Hallelujah Preach
I agree.. Excellent job Ralphie
A++++++++++++++++++
I think it's stupid what they're doing but I don't care if they do it. And I don't get why people are making a big deal about it.
I heard the whole seahwaks team will be kneeling down. I hope someone takes a knee so we get more coverage LOL
Quote:I think it's stupid what they're doing but I don't care if they do it. And I don't get why people are making a big deal about it.
But what if they did it with a Russian flag?
Quote:Why respect for the nation you are citizen of, which is the entire purpose of a national anthem, is meaningless?
Interesting times we live in. Time to move this to Politics.
I wasn't insinuating that the anthem itself is meaningless. I was implying that getting worked up over someone standing or sitting for it iso.
In fact, most vets I personally know don't have much of a problem with it.
These guys are some of the few who have a platform to bring attention to issues. I actually think Marshall's knee was much classier than Kap sitting with his head down, but outside of donating money, which a lot do, how else are they supposed to spread awareness. This is about as peaceful as protesting gets.
I do not understand getting upset about this. No one is out there saying "screw America, thus place sucks!" They're saying "look, this country has some flaws, let's take a look at fixing them" Which is 100% accurate (and not just for racism)
Lol you can quickly establish who are the Republican and Democrats in this thread with no problem. Should move to political.
It's their right to kneel or not kneel just as much as its someone else's right to complain about it.
And oppression is real folks. To think otherwise has clearly not walked into the shoes of someone who's come up was/is far more difficult than yours due to the color of their skin and where they grew up.
Now don't get me wrong, there are people that take plenty advantage of it too, but that's another story for another day.
Now that should get this moved to Political!
Quote:I wasn't insinuating that the anthem itself is meaningless. I was implying that getting worked up over someone standing or sitting for it iso.
In fact, most vets I personally know don't have much of a problem with it.
These guys are some of the few who have a platform to bring attention to issues. I actually think Marshall's knee was much classier than Kap sitting with his head down, but outside of donating money, which a lot do, how else are they supposed to spread awareness. This is about as peaceful as protesting gets.
I do not understand getting upset about this. No one is out there saying "screw America, thus place sucks!" They're saying "look, this country has some flaws, let's take a look at fixing them" Which is 100% accurate (and not just for racism)
Awareness of what? The BLM movement has made headlines the past 2 years with riots and looting as a method of spreading awareness. We are all aware, trust me.
Quote:I wasn't insinuating that the anthem itself is meaningless. I was implying that getting worked up over someone standing or sitting for it iso.
In fact, most vets I personally know don't have much of a problem with it.
These guys are some of the few who have a platform to bring attention to issues. I actually think Marshall's knee was much classier than Kap sitting with his head down, but outside of donating money, which a lot do, how else are they supposed to spread awareness. This is about as peaceful as protesting gets.
I do not understand getting upset about this. No one is out there saying "screw America, thus place sucks!" They're saying "look, this country has some flaws, let's take a look at fixing them" Which is 100% accurate (and not just for racism)
I was going to stay out of this but I guess I'll join lol. You're right, this is as peaceful of a protest as you can get. I work with a lot of veterans and they are pretty much 50/50 about it. In my opinion, it's within their rights so let them do it. That being said, they should also be ready to face any consequences that come with that, as a private business also has the right to do as they please (for the most part).
The only issue I have had over this whole ordeal was that Kap was allowed to wear the socks he wore, but the Cowboys couldn't have the sticker on their helmet supporting the cops that were killed. That being said, I'm a cop so I might be inherently bias when it comes to that issue. At times I wish I could sit and speak with people like him, as I feel that so many people look at cops like some sort of machines, and the media doesn't help the issue (nor do the cops that have legitimately given us a bad rep).
Overall, my opinion is let whoever wants to protest do so, and then lets enjoy the one thing that unites us, Jags football!
My other opinion is move this thing to the political forum so I don't keep seeing it :'D
Quote:Lol you can quickly establish who are the Republican and Democrats in this thread with no problem. Should move to political.
It's their right to kneel or not kneel just as much as its someone else's right to complain about it.
And oppression is real folks. To think otherwise has clearly not walked into the shoes of someone who's come up was/is far more difficult than yours due to the color of their skin and where they grew up.
Now don't get me wrong, there are people that take plenty advantage of it too, but that's another story for another day.
Now that should get this moved to Political!
I may not be a person of color but I didn't grow up with the ability to have anything I wanted. I didn't get brand new nike's every month or whatever the fad was then. I did get to eat every day and had a place to call my home. That said, I am now a very successful electrician and I have things I never thought I would ever have. My daughter has things I would never have had and I've had to work my butt off to get to where I'm at. I will never use the excuse of "when I grew up we didn't have much so that's how I need to live my adult life too". If you allow yourself to play a victim, then you will always be one.
Quote:I was going to stay out of this but I guess I'll join lol. You're right, this is as peaceful of a protest as you can get. I work with a lot of veterans and they are pretty much 50/50 about it. In my opinion, it's within their rights so let them do it. That being said, they should also be ready to face any consequences that come with that, as a private business also has the right to do as they please (for the most part).
The only issue I have had over this whole ordeal was that Kap was allowed to wear the socks he wore, but the Cowboys couldn't have the sticker on their helmet supporting the cops that were killed. That being said, I'm a cop so I might be inherently bias when it comes to that issue. At times I wish I could sit and speak with people like him, as I feel that so many people look at cops like some sort of machines, and the media doesn't help the issue (nor do the cops that have legitimately given us a bad rep).
Overall, my opinion is let whoever wants to protest do so, and then lets enjoy the one thing that unites us, Jags football!
My other opinion is move this thing to the political forum so I don't keep seeing it :'D
Agreed on pretty much all counts. I have police officers in my family so I can definitely see from that perspective.
But as many have said, move this to political.
Go Jags!
Quote:I was going to stay out of this but I guess I'll join lol. You're right, this is as peaceful of a protest as you can get. I work with a lot of veterans and they are pretty much 50/50 about it. In my opinion, it's within their rights so let them do it. That being said, they should also be ready to face any consequences that come with that, as a private business also has the right to do as they please (for the most part).
The only issue I have had over this whole ordeal was that Kap was allowed to wear the socks he wore, but the Cowboys couldn't have the sticker on their helmet supporting the cops that were killed. That being said, I'm a cop so I might be inherently bias when it comes to that issue. At times I wish I could sit and speak with people like him, as I feel that so many people look at cops like some sort of machines, and the media doesn't help the issue (nor do the cops that have legitimately given us a bad rep).
Overall, my opinion is let whoever wants to protest do so, and then lets enjoy the one thing that unites us, Jags football!
My other opinion is move this thing to the political forum so I don't keep seeing it :'D
Thank you for being in one of the most dangerous professions there is. Cops get a lot of flack but I don't see any others standing up to put their life on the line daily. So I thank you. You have a tough job.
To me it seems that this whole "constitutional right" thing gets abused quite often. At the same time I believe people get too worked up about our flag. It's cloth. It's symbolic of much more.. but in the end.. it's cloth. I see too many people threatening violence over people disrespecting a piece of cloth.
This is coming from a veteran. I have seen SOOOO many gung-ho veterans saying "I fought for that flag, my friend died for that flag.. blah blah". I just don't get it. I didn't serve a flag. I served a country and worked to ensure freedom for all. With that said, I do believe there are better ways to get a point across than willfully disrespecting someone, an ideal, or a symbol. These players could donate to their favorite BLM charity and it would make a bigger difference.
Quote:I may not be a person of color but I didn't grow up with the ability to have anything I wanted. I didn't get brand new nike's every month or whatever the fad was then. I did get to eat every day and had a place to call my home. That said, I am now a very successful electrician and I have things I never thought I would ever have. My daughter has things I would never have had and I've had to work my butt off to get to where I'm at. I will never use the excuse of "when I grew up we didn't have much so that's how I need to live my adult life too". If you allow yourself to play a victim, then you will always be one.
Neither did I. I grew up poor and all that. But to say a white person and a minority has the same equal opportunity in America with no issues with racism, or even myself as a male compared to a woman, white or as a minority, with no issues in sexism, is ignorance.
Quote:Neither did I. I grew up poor and all that. But to say a white person and a minority has the same equal opportunity in America with no issues with racism, or even myself as a male compared to a woman, white or as a minority, with no issues in sexism, is ignorance.
There are more black women in college today than there are any other race and gender in America. Sorry, it isn't the 1990s, 1980s, 1970s, or 1960s anymore. We are about as equal as it is going to get, and its pretty damn equal. In fact, we are being so "equal" that we are reintroducing segregation on behalf of blacks who no longer want to share living arrangements with other races. Ain't that nice?
Cal State LA offers segregated housing for black students
Quote:Here's hoping we have no player, packers or Jaguars, feel they have to use this game as a venue to "take a knee" or some other form of protest.
Just leave politics at the door.
They can do what they want on their social media accounts....but please ....not at the game.
Thanks in advance. :thanks:
The First Amendment applies to all or it applies to none. There is no middle ground.
Quote:The First Amendment applies to all or it applies to none. There is no middle ground.
He said he was hoping they would act like respectful adults because politics doesn't belong in football. He didn't say the government should force them not to protest. If he wanted though, Shad COULD choose to cut the contract of a player who does protest, being a private organization and all.
The players have a right to freedom of speech, just like their sponsors have a right to pull their sponsorship over said speech, the fans to criticize them for being complete embarrassments over said speech, and the owner to fire player over said speech. The only one who DOESN'T have a right to act on said speech is the government.
Quote:He said he was hoping they would act like respectful adults because politics doesn't belong in football. He didn't say the government should force them not to protest. If he wanted though, Shad COULD choose to cut the contract of a player who does protest, being a private organization and all.
The players have a right to freedom of speech, just like their sponsors have a right to pull their sponsorship over said speech, the fans to criticize them for being complete embarrassments over said speech, and the owner to fire player over said speech. The only one who DOESN'T have a right to act on said speech is the government.
Well, yes, the risk of utilizing free speech is that there are consequences to that speech. At no point have I argued against that. If I choose to go into work on Monday and espouse the family values of Henry VIII, I'd be well within my rights to do so, and my boss would be well within their rights to fire me for endorsing murder as a viable alternative to divorce.
Let me rephrase that: a person is well within their rights to hope that others act a certain way. That does not obligate others to act as that person chooses. Freedom of speech applies to all, as do its consequences.
The "politics does not belong in football" discussion is an interesting one: athletes are entitled to opinions, correct? And they're entitled to voice those opinions? If I had millions of fans and a cause I cared deeply enough, I'd use my grandest stage to draw attention to it. Not in the way that Kap, Marshall, Lane and others have done so, but you bet I'd be leveraging that stage. If a team were to cut a player for the manner in which they do so, hey, NFL teams are private business ventures. The details of that release would be for the NFLPA to sue someone over, but that's a bit deeper than I care to go.
If a player takes a knee during the national anthem to bring awareness to a cause, I recognize their right to do so and thank them for exercising that right, even if I don't particularly agree with how they're doing so. After all, rights we don't exercise are rights we lose. If a team chooses to cut a player for kneeling during the anthem, I recognize the right of private businesses to exercise discretion in who they want working for them. If a sponsor drops that player, I recognize the sponsor's right to choose who represents them.
Basically, the only sort of conduct I don't respect is people crowing to the media, in comments sections, office break rooms or web forums about how someone should not be allowed to exercise their freedom of speech in a certain way because it's "offensive," "an insult," whatever. It's intensely hypocritical for the same person that's enraged about free speech zones, safe spaces and that nonsense to then claim that the exercise of free speech offends them and shouldn't be allowed.