Quote:Think about this.. we are on pins and needles as fans on draft night. The picks are coming in and the guy that is on the top of most boards isn't getting picked. The cowboys pass and we are on the clock.
The guy at the top spot of the draft is sitting there in your lap. Your boards, mocks and offseason work put everything to focus on this outcome.... and then you trade out of the spot? If you are the GM that doesn't pull the trigger for that guy in that spot, you will be the laughing stock of front offices.
I would bet Dave had Bosa on the top of his board. Elite DE will always trump a corner
Quote:I'd rather have the projected guy from the previous draft (Folwer), Ramsey and Miles Jack. Telvin and Jack have the type of speed and disruption we need going forward. And then you put a top cornerback on the other team's number one? I like the chances of Fowler improving and taking advantage of those opportunities. And Yan could be a steal.
Not getting into the what ifs here. The GM did the job this year. The coach flubbed it for 4 years.
Getting away from discussion a little bit, but I agree on Fowler. He's just such a violent player with a lot of great qualities. As a pure edge rusher I'm not sure if he becomes what we want, but a coach that can play to his strenghts (moving around the DL/LB group and being a jack of all trades) he'd be a damn fine player. Asking Fowler to play the edge when the guy has no moves (again, coaching staff?!??!?) it's just stupid. If he can learn some moves and make some strides in that area next year fine, but good lord. What do you expect him to do? I get our options aren't plentiful on the edge but man.
Quote:would you rather have Ramsey than VH3 and Spence?
Trading back is a crapshoot, you don't always even get offers to do so and I wasn't high on Spence at draft time.
Ramsey was worth the pick. That's all I need to know.
Quote:Trading back is a crapshoot, you don't always even get offers to do so and I wasn't high on Spence at draft time.
Ramsey was worth the pick. That's all I need to know.
the draft is a crapshoot, almost everyone one on this board wanted Spence. Although they didnt know Jack would be available. If we did teade back last year it would of been almost a guarantee Spence is other player Dave wpuld of took in the 2nd. This year is the same situation as last year, its a deep draft in the first 2 rounds and we have a lot of need. Hopefully Dave finally makes a trade back and stays in the top 10. Im sure one of the QBs will be there when we pick and someone will want to jump Chi. Jon Allen or not. Give me Adams, Barnett, or Fournette and 2 2nd round picks than just a Jon Allen
Quote:the draft is a crapshoot, almost everyone one on this board wanted Spence. Although they didnt know Jack would be available. If we did teade back last year it would of been almost a guarantee Spence is other player Dave wpuld of took in the 2nd
. This year is the same situation as last year, its a deep draft in the first 2 rounds and we have a lot of need. Hopefully Dave finally makes a trade back and stays in the top 10. Im sure one of the QBs will be there when we pick and someone will want to jump Chi. Jon Allen or not. Give me Adams, Barnett, or Fournette and 2 2nd round picks than just a Jon Allen
bold: exeggeration - plenity of folks were scared/skeptical of Spence
red: just your own speculation and opinion - nothing more
You are also assuming a trade down was even offered last year and that trade position would have afforded picks that Dave had highly on his board that met needs. Lots of speculation/assumption in your post there.
Quote:bold: exeggeration - plenity of folks were scared/skeptical of Spence
red: just your own speculation and opinion - nothing more
You are also assuming a trade down was even offered last year and that trade position would have afforded picks that Dave had highly on his board that met needs. Lots of speculation/assumption in your post there.
it is specualtion that i think he would of drafted Spence but but Dave himself in the post draft interview said he had call offers for the 5th pick
Jon Allen is sometimes viewed even higher than Garrett by some. He is another elite talent. If he's there at 3 or 4, I'd have a very tough time passing. Tim Williams I also expect to jump boards during combine time.
Obviously I wouldn't be opposed to trading down, but I'd much prefer a player that they think can be an elite/top talent and face of our team for next several years than trade down multiple spots if they don't love anyone there. If your talking trade back 2-3 spots fine. But if you mean trading down a solid bit than I'm not too enamored with something like this. This team needs studs.
Quote:Jon Allen is sometimes viewed even higher than Garrett by some. He is another elite talent. If he's there at 3 or 4, I'd have a very tough time passing. Tim Williams I also expect to jump boards during combine time.
Obviously I wouldn't be opposed to trading down, but I'd much prefer a player that they think can be an elite/top talent and face of our team for next several years than trade down multiple spots if they don't love anyone there. If your talking trade back 2-3 spots fine. But if you mean trading down a solid bit than I'm not too enamored with something like this. This team needs studs.
i said staying in the top 10. There will be studs available. While you want Allen, give me the picks any day. There will be elite talent at the top of the 2nd as well in this draft
Quote:i said staying in the top 10. There will be studs available. While you want Allen, give me the picks any day. There will be elite talent at the top of the 2nd as well in this draft
There will be potential for a stud anywhere in any draft. Problem is finding it. It just gets harder to find that player the farther you go down.
Acting like we add a 2nd and automatically get a solid player there is not a great line of thinking. The more choices the more opportunities you have to hit, but I like the idea of getting the more likely to hit a home run guy. Jon Allen is going to be a monster.
Fans always love getting more picks because it's exciting, but there's a reason there isn't THAT many trade backs and why unless there is a QB, not many trade back when their high in the draft.
Quote:There will be potential for a stud anywhere in any draft. Problem is finding it. It just gets harder to find that player the farther you go down.
Acting like we add a 2nd and automatically get a solid player there is not a great line of thinking. The more choices the more opportunities you have to hit, but I like the idea of getting the more likely to hit a home run guy. Jon Allen is going to be a monster.
Fans always love getting more picks because it's exciting, but there's a reason there isn't THAT many trade backs and why unless there is a QB, not many trade back when their high in the draft.
almost everyon in the last 10 or 15 years that traded back made out. The only one i can think of that didnt is when the Browns traded back and Atl. got Julio but the Brown always lose on everything, outside of when the got a first for Trent. If you have no faith that you can get a stud at the top of the 2nd on this draft then you need better scouts
Quote:almost everyon in the last 10 or 15 years that traded back made out. The only one i can think of that didnt is when the Browns traded back and Atl. got Julio but the Brown always lose on everything, outside of when the got a first for Trent. If you have no faith that you can get a stud at the top of the 2nd on this draft then you need better scouts
You mean like Cyp, who most everyone LOVED on this board after we selected him?
Or back in 2014, where Xavier Sua'filo, Ra'sheded Hageman, Austin Sefarian Jenkins, Kyle Van Noy, Cyrus Kouandjio, Paul Richardson, etc. were taken high?
There's going to be busts regardless man.
Quote:You mean like Cyp, who most everyone LOVED on this board after we selected him?
Or back in 2014, where Xavier Sua'filo, Ra'sheded Hageman, Austin Sefarian Jenkins, Kyle Van Noy, Cyrus Kouandjio, Paul Richardson, etc. were taken high?
There's going to be busts regardless man.
who ever said there wont be busts? So stay in the top 3 and take players like the Joke or Bortles? When you could of traded back and taken a player like Carr, or Aaron Donald? 2 can play this game. My point is this draft has a lot of really good players at the top as well as deep enough like last year to get an extra building block in the 2nd when have have as many holes on the oline and a few other positions as we do. If you dont think we should trade back fine. But i think its the smart move especially with Daves history of 2nd and 3rd round picks and the talent you could get in the 5-10 range
Quote:who ever said there wont be busts? So stay in the top 3 and take players like the Joke or Bortles? When you could of traded back and taken a player like Carr, or Aaron Donald? 2 can play this game. My point is this draft has a lot of really good players at the top as well as deep enough like last year to get an extra building block in the 2nd when have have as many holes on the oline and a few other positions as we do. If you dont think we should trade back fine. But i think its the smart move especially with Daves history of 2nd and 3rd round picks and the talent you could get in the 5-10 range
You watch where we draft, it'll be at 3 or 4 like every other year. If we get Jonathan Williams, he'll be a key cog to our defense for the next several years. I'll happily take that. There's a reason why people trade multiple picks to go up to the top of the draft...to get the elite talent instead of the good talent and the chance at a top talent is a lot less risky than picking farther down.
Like I said, every fan always wants to trade down. It's more exciting because you have more picks. Doesn't mean it's always the best move...and there's a reason why Dave didn't last year with Jalen on the board even though he had offers as you stated. Take the elite talent and build around it.
Quote:who ever said there wont be busts? So stay in the top 3 and take players like the Joke or Bortles? When you could of traded back and taken a player like Carr, or Aaron Donald? 2 can play this game. My point is this draft has a lot of really good players at the top as well as deep enough like last year to get an extra building block in the 2nd when have have as many holes on the oline and a few other positions as we do. If you dont think we should trade back fine. But i think its the smart move especially with Daves history of 2nd and 3rd round picks and the talent you could get in the 5-10 range
Also, you keep acting like we trade down and hit on a player "slightly worse than at 3 or 4, but nearly just as good" and say this draft is just too good not to hit in the 2nd and compare it to like getting VHIII and Spence, both of whom weren't sure things, last year. Obviously if things worked out ideally yes, you get a damn good player in the trade down in the 1st and pick up another good player in the 2nd. But the likelyhood is higher at 5 than hitting on two picks. I highly doubt if we missed on one of them that the 1 we hit on would be on the tier of the elite player we likely got top 5.
We are likely going with a defensive player, not an OT which have been largely hit or miss at the top last several years or a QB who is generally always going to be a reach but you need one like the two examples you showed there.
Quote:You watch where we draft, it'll be at 3 or 4 like every other year. If we get Jonathan Williams, he'll be a key cog to our defense for the next several years. I'll happily take that. There's a reason why people trade multiple picks to go up to the top of the draft...to get the elite talent instead of the good talent and the chance at a top talent is a lot less risky than picking farther down.
Like I said, every fan always wants to trade down. It's more exciting because you have more picks. Doesn't mean it's always the best move...and there's a reason why Dave didn't last year with Jalen on the board even though he had offers as you stated. Take the elite talent and build around it.
what you dont understant is there is elite talent outside of the top 3 or 4 picks. It just how much faith do you have in your scouts. Jon Allen or not, i doubt Dave trades out. Who is to say Dave even has Jon Allen in the top 3 on his board? You have no clue, see Leonard Williams a few years ago
Quote:what you dont understant is there is elite talent outside of the top 3 or 4 picks. It just how much faith do you have in your scouts. Jon Allen or not, i doubt Dave trades out. Who is to say Dave even has Jon Allen in the top 3 on his board? You have no clue, see Leonard Williams a few years ago
How don't I understand that? Look at my posts. I've said you can find elite talent anywhere in the draft, but there's a higher chance of getting one the higher you are in the draft.
Maybe we don't like Jon Allen, but Tim Williams/Jamal Adams are also likely to just go up from this point on and be top 5-7 in the draft. Tim Williams is impressive as hell as an edge rusher, and his size/speed combo will likely just boost his stock from here on out with the combine and workouts with teams. Holds some similar qualities to Vic Beasley while being a better run defender.
If he jumps up boards, than I don't think you're going to be seeing him still on the board in a trade down. To get a 2nd rd pick in a trade down we're likely going to need to drop to 9 or 10+.
Quote:How don't I understand that? Look at my posts. I've said you can find elite talent anywhere in the draft, but there's a higher chance of getting one the higher you are in the draft.
Maybe we don't like Jon Allen, but Tim Williams/Jamal Adams are also likely to just go up from this point on and be top 5-7 in the draft. Tim Williams is impressive as hell as an edge rusher, and his size/speed combo will likely just boost his stock from here on out with the combine and workouts with teams. Holds some similar qualities to Vic Beasley while being a better run defender.
If he jumps up boards, than I don't think you're going to be seeing him still on the board in a trade down. To get a 2nd rd pick in a trade down we're likely going to need to drop to 9 or 10+.
not so sure about that, Chi, NY, and Cle all need a QB. If one of those teams fall in love with Kizer or Trubisky i could easily see one of them trading with us to jump Chi. Which i doubt Dave would do unless they give up there 2nd at least. Especially Cle. wo has a boat load of picks and Trubisky being from Ohio
Quote:not so sure about that, Chi, NY, and Cle all need a QB. If one of those teams fall in love with Kizer or Trubisky i could easily see one of them trading with us to jump Chi. Which i doubt Dave would do unless they give up there 2nd at least. Especially Cle. wo has a boat load of picks and Trubisky being from Ohio
They may need a QB, but most have said this is the weakest QB class since 2013. I don't think anyone is giving up a haul, at least based on what is being said on this class right now, to move up.
Quote:They may need a QB, but most have said this is the weakest QB class since 2013. I don't think anyone is giving up a haul, at least based on what is being said on this class right now, to move up.
giving up a 2nd round pick isnt really a haul to move up for a QB lol.
If you have the widely viewed "best player in the draft" sitting in your lap at 5, you DO NOT trade back. /thread.