I've been saying since week 1 that run game isn't it. We get fooled because they break 1 or 2 per game, but the true test is on 3rd or 4th and 1. They fail more than they convert.
And this defense has given up two long drives for the game winner. Good defenses don't do that!!! Has Walker had a sack since week 1? I don't think so! Where is Josh Allen?
We don't have a pile pusher or downhill runner. Makes short yardage situations difficult.
You're clueless if you think the defense is the issue. They gave up 13 points. The defense is the reason our team has only lost by 1 possesion in all 3 losses.
The defense is an issue because the offense is anissue. This offense needs the defense to give them turnovers. If they dont, it will be tough for the offense to score with a long field every single time. But obviously the issue here is the offense, not the defense. They did their job, if the offense is semi-decent. If the offense is what it was yesterday, the defense needs to do more.
(10-10-2022, 02:20 AM)Big Dougy P Wrote: [ -> ]You're clueless if you think the defense is the issue. They gave up 13 points. The defense is the reason our team has only lost by 1 possesion in all 3 losses.
You're clueless if you don't understand what's happening. What you're seeing on Sunday's. They play very aggressive and blitz a lot, but this is twice now they've given up loooong drives for the winning score.
I'm not saying the defense is trash but there's concern there.
(10-10-2022, 04:03 AM)Holger Wrote: [ -> ]The defense is an issue because the offense is anissue. This offense needs the defense to give them turnovers. If they dont, it will be tough for the offense to score with a long field every single time. But obviously the issue here is the offense, not the defense. They did their job, if the offense is semi-decent. If the offense is what it was yesterday, the defense needs to do more.
I compare it to our run game which looks good on 1st or 2nd down, when Robinson or Etienne break a nice run. It gives us the illusion that the run game is good. While I'm seeing our offensive line getting no push and the RBs just find a nice crevice on their own to make something happen.
Our defense looks good until it's 3rd down and time to stuff that run or get that team off the field! Teams have converted down after down for 70 or 80 yard drives these past weeks. Philly drove like 90 yards, and the Texans drove like 80.
What you’re saying is this team is more finesse and less smash mouth and I agree with that. We’re built somewhat like the Peyton Manning era clots. The problem is we’re not nearly as good at QB and pass rush yet. But this team is built to win by getting a lead and then teeing off on defense in obvious passing situations and we’re not good at winning in other ways at the moment.
Also, when this team has been good historically, we’ve more often than not been more smash mouth and less finesse so this style is hard to get used to for fans of more physical teams like myself. That said, long term sustained success is more QB driven than by defense and power run so I’ll get used to it if Lawrence proves to be able to fulfill his potential.
We do have a good run game but we have to stick with it. Etienne is averaging 4.9 ypc while JRob is averaging 4.1 ypc. You have to stick with the run though. It was 2nd and 1 and we were on the 7 yrd like I think and Doug wants to throw the ball and Trevor throws a pick. When we need 1 yard, and the want to run the run play out of shotgun. How about old school goaline offense with a FB leading the way.
(10-09-2022, 11:32 PM)Mandeezee Wrote: [ -> ]I've been saying since week 1 that run game isn't it. We get fooled because they break 1 or 2 per game, but the true test is on 3rd or 4th and 1. They fail more than they convert.
And this defense has given up two long drives for the game winner. Good defenses don't do that!!! Has Walker had a sack since week 1? I don't think so! Where is Josh Allen?
Short yardage situations are as much about the OL as the RB.
If you're making a thread complaining about what looks like a pretty dynamic run game because of short yardage struggles - you probably should have started an offensive line or fullback thread instead.
I actually think Doug is only barely scratching the surface of what he could accomplish with the run game in terms of situational play calling.
ETN could have hung 200 on the tinhorns yesterday if they fed him the ball.
The defense giving up game winning drives is a concern. But you'd better factor in time of possession and more importantly how imbalanced T.o.P. has been late in contests. They can only jump back out there after so many 3 and outs or short possessions. Not to mention the squandered opportunities to score by the offense that would negate the "game-winning" aspect of your complaint.
Walker and Allen probably should have shown more yesterday vs the tinhorn OL, but it's a bit early to be bashing them IMO.
Lots of football left to play.
(10-10-2022, 09:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2022, 11:32 PM)Mandeezee Wrote: [ -> ]I've been saying since week 1 that run game isn't it. We get fooled because they break 1 or 2 per game, but the true test is on 3rd or 4th and 1. They fail more than they convert.
And this defense has given up two long drives for the game winner. Good defenses don't do that!!! Has Walker had a sack since week 1? I don't think so! Where is Josh Allen?
Short yardage situations are as much about the OL as the RB.
If you're making a thread complaining about what looks like a pretty dynamic run game because of short yardage struggles - you probably should have started an offensive line or fullback thread instead.
I actually think Doug is only barely scratching the surface of what he could accomplish with the run game in terms of situational play calling.
ETN could have hung 200 on the tinhorns yesterday if they fed him the ball.
The defense giving up game winning drives is a concern. But you'd better factor in time of possession and more importantly how imbalanced T.o.P. has been late in contests. They can only jump back out there after so many 3 and outs or short possessions. Not to mention the squandered opportunities to score by the offense that would negate the "game-winning" aspect of your complaint.
Walker and Allen probably should have shown more yesterday vs the tinhorn OL, but it's a bit early to be bashing them IMO.
Lots of football left to play.
I agree about short yardage running. The offensive line doesn't do a good job creating movement.
The defense yesterday wasn't about time of possession. Until the last drive when Travon showed he's not going to contribute this season, the top was very even, and was only slightly uneven by the end
I don't like hearing the tired excuse for the defense, because it's not about being tired, it's about not having the size to hold up. The team was built to play with a lead.
(10-10-2022, 09:34 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 09:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Short yardage situations are as much about the OL as the RB.
If you're making a thread complaining about what looks like a pretty dynamic run game because of short yardage struggles - you probably should have started an offensive line or fullback thread instead.
I actually think Doug is only barely scratching the surface of what he could accomplish with the run game in terms of situational play calling.
ETN could have hung 200 on the tinhorns yesterday if they fed him the ball.
The defense giving up game winning drives is a concern. But you'd better factor in time of possession and more importantly how imbalanced T.o.P. has been late in contests. They can only jump back out there after so many 3 and outs or short possessions. Not to mention the squandered opportunities to score by the offense that would negate the "game-winning" aspect of your complaint.
Walker and Allen probably should have shown more yesterday vs the tinhorn OL, but it's a bit early to be bashing them IMO.
Lots of football left to play.
I agree about short yardage running. The offensive line doesn't do a good job creating movement.
The defense yesterday wasn't about time of possession. Until the last drive when Travon showed he's not going to contribute this season, the top was very even, and was only slightly uneven by the end
I don't like hearing the tired excuse for the defense, because it's not about being tired, it's about not having the size to hold up. The team was built to play with a lead.
Possession
was lopsided in the second half - I was checking the update of it on the scoreboard after every short possession by the Jags and watching it get worse and worse.
When the tinhorns got their first possession in the second half- the next several series were 17:04 for the visitors and 4.49 for the Jags combined.
This absolutely wears on your defense - especially when your best run defender is out of the rotation with a torn quad.
The defense is not perfectly built, but ignoring these factors as "excuses" is disingenuous.
(10-09-2022, 11:50 PM)JaguarJosh2 Wrote: [ -> ]We don't have a pile pusher or downhill runner. Makes short yardage situations difficult.
I glanced up at the TV and saw Ezekiel Elliott gashing the Rams late in the game with several 5- to 10-yard chunks. They kept dialing up the same play running behind the Cowboys beastly center. The Rams couldn't stop it. I think it's more a function of the interior offensive line than the runner. James Robinson is fine as an interior runner. It's simply that the Jags have a rookie center and a suspect left guard who gets rag dolled. Thus, the pile can't be moved.
Jacksonville Jaguars (12)
It would have sounded absurd entering the season to say the Jacksonville Jaguars have one of the best NFL defenses in 2022. Entering Week 5, though, Jacksonville ranked sixth in Football Outsiders' DVOA defense ratings.6 mins ago
(10-10-2022, 09:02 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We do have a good run game but we have to stick with it. Etienne is averaging 4.9 ypc while JRob is averaging 4.1 ypc. You have to stick with the run though. It was 2nd and 1 and we were on the 7 yrd like I think and Doug wants to throw the ball and Trevor throws a pick. When we need 1 yard, and the want to run the run play out of shotgun. How about old school goaline offense with a FB leading the way.
Doug wants to air it out like he has Kurt Warner in his prime, but Trevor is still basically a rookie. It's obvious to everyone on here that he needs to call a balanced game to support Trevor's development. Maybe someone can print a bunch of message board posts about this subject and deliver them to 1 TIAA Bank Field.
(10-10-2022, 09:55 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2022, 11:50 PM)JaguarJosh2 Wrote: [ -> ]We don't have a pile pusher or downhill runner. Makes short yardage situations difficult.
I glanced up at the TV at the gym and saw Ezekiel Eliot gashing the Rams late in the game with several 5 to 7-yard runs. They kept dialing up the same type of play, behind the Cowboys center, who is a beast. The Rams couldn't stop it. I think it's more a function of the interior offensive line. We have a rookie center and a suspect left guard who gets rag dolled. Thus, the pile can't be moved.
I'd like to see them do what I've seen a few teams do in the past and ID a backup OL or DL guy who can be coached to lead block as a makeshift fullback. Somebody 260+.
Run Robinson or Snoop Connor behind that guy to the right side.
Could dial up great little passes to a leaking TE off of it as well.
The defense has a chance to get right this week with that Colt OL. Ryan is toast and Taylor is still gimpy. Let make them 0-2 against us
(10-10-2022, 09:55 AM)EWingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Jacksonville Jaguars (12)
It would have sounded absurd entering the season to say the Jacksonville Jaguars have one of the best NFL defenses in 2022. Entering Week 5, though, Jacksonville ranked sixth in Football Outsiders' DVOA defense ratings.6 mins ago
We do have a top 10 defense statistically overall, however, they have given up points on key drives during our losses which needs to be acknowledged. If there are reasons why, like being gassed, that’s fine, but we should be looking at the situations to gain full or better understanding of what’s going on rather than strictly looking at rankings and box scores.
Yesterday there were two drives given up at key times in the 2nd half which drastically affected the outcome. 1 being rookie Stingley making the mistake of bringing his interception out of the back of the end zone and getting tackled on the 2 yard line. You’d think our D would be able to get a stop and give us the ball back with good field position, but that’s not what happened. The tinhorns drove to midfield before being forced to punt. I believe the punt was fair caught around our 8 yard line. That drive effectively flipped the field which was huge for them as it compounded Trevor’s mistake in the end zone.
The 2nd I’ve already harped on elsewhere which was the Walker penalty (effectively a turnover) and ensuing drive down the field for a TD.
Both of these were failures in the 2nd half by an otherwise good defense.
(10-10-2022, 10:21 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 09:55 AM)EWingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Jacksonville Jaguars (12)
It would have sounded absurd entering the season to say the Jacksonville Jaguars have one of the best NFL defenses in 2022. Entering Week 5, though, Jacksonville ranked sixth in Football Outsiders' DVOA defense ratings.6 mins ago
We do have a top 10 defense statistically overall, however, they have given up points on key drives during our losses which needs to be acknowledged. If there are reasons why, like being gassed, that’s fine, but we should be looking at the situations to gain full or better understanding of what’s going on rather than strictly looking at rankings and box scores.
Yesterday there were two drives given up at key times in the 2nd half which drastically affected the outcome. 1 being rookie Stingley making the mistake of bringing his interception out of the back of the end zone and getting tackled on the 2 yard line. You’d think our D would be able to get a stop and give us the ball back with good field position, but that’s not what happened. The tinhorns drove to midfield before being forced to punt. I believe the punt was fair caught around our 8 yard line. That drive effectively flipped the field which was huge for them as it compounded Trevor’s mistake in the end zone.
The 2nd I’ve already harped on elsewhere which was the Walker penalty (effectively a turnover) and ensuing drive down the field for a TD.
Both of these were failures in the 2nd half by an otherwise good defense.
This is also a very young defense with more experienced players just peppered in. Hell, I can only imagine how some of these younger bucks would be playing with more experience, example, Cisco.. I mean, dude should have been playing from jump street last season. But no, Urbs had to keep him on the bench and throw him a bone once in a while.
This is a fairly young defense, and it's already coming together. Expecting defensive dominance from this young core is setting yourself up for disappointment. There's a plan in place and the only thing that's going to help these kids out on defense is reps, experience and the film room, and I guarantee you, they're hitting it hard..
(10-10-2022, 09:02 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We do have a good run game but we have to stick with it. Etienne is averaging 4.9 ypc while JRob is averaging 4.1 ypc. You have to stick with the run though. It was 2nd and 1 and we were on the 7 yrd like I think and Doug wants to throw the ball and Trevor throws a pick. When we need 1 yard, and the want to run the run play out of shotgun. How about old school goaline offense with a FB leading the way.
@if we run more, those averages might go down tho@
(10-10-2022, 09:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Short yardage situations are as much about the OL as the RB.
If you're making a thread complaining about what looks like a pretty dynamic run game because of short yardage struggles - you probably should have started an offensive line or fullback thread instead.
I actually think Doug is only barely scratching the surface of what he could accomplish with the run game in terms of situational play calling.
ETN could have hung 200 on the tinhorns yesterday if they fed him the ball.
The defense giving up game winning drives is a concern. But you'd better factor in time of possession and more importantly how imbalanced T.o.P. has been late in contests. They can only jump back out there after so many 3 and outs or short possessions. Not to mention the squandered opportunities to score by the offense that would negate the "game-winning" aspect of your complaint.
Walker and Allen probably should have shown more yesterday vs the tinhorn OL, but it's a bit early to be bashing them IMO.
Lots of football left to play.
all of this right here. couldn't say it better myself, so I'll just quote you and hope someone doesn't see your name at the top
(10-10-2022, 01:10 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-10-2022, 09:02 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]We do have a good run game but we have to stick with it. Etienne is averaging 4.9 ypc while JRob is averaging 4.1 ypc. You have to stick with the run though. It was 2nd and 1 and we were on the 7 yrd like I think and Doug wants to throw the ball and Trevor throws a pick. When we need 1 yard, and the want to run the run play out of shotgun. How about old school goaline offense with a FB leading the way.
@if we run more, those averages might go down tho@
It might not, we don't know until we try. It just shows that we have been able to run the football and we get away from it. Like yesterday when we passed the ball twice as much as we ran it and we got a whole 6 points out of it against the number 31st run D.