Pass Rusher looks to be a more glaring issue as time goes on. Josh Allen has got had a sack since October 2nd while Travon Walkers last sack was on October 23rd. The team has to find different ways to get to the Qb. I would allow Walker to try some more 3 technique like he did and college while allowing Lloyd to rush the Qb like in college. Good teams adjust. Right now the pass rush is not getting it done.
Might be time to send the ol corner blitz
(11-30-2022, 07:38 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Might be time to send the ol corner blitz
They've sent Jenkins on a blitz 19 times this year, dude. Cisco has blitzed 5 times.
Our edge guys aren't getting there quickly enough and we don't have a legit interior pass rusher.
Hamilton is getting better and Fatukasi is a great runstuffer, but we need a 3Tech guy that can beat guards quickly.
Arden Key flashed in that role but has fallen off.
Allen seems weak for some reason on 60% of his snaps, looks like he's almost there on the rest.
Walker just needs to learn some hand technique and a couple moves inside. He gets tied up and can't free himself.
Better coverage will help both of them. Teams are getting the ball out quickly against us often.
These guys need to be getting home when QBs hold it though.
Not good enough
I think allen and walker are getting held a lot. They dont get the respect to get the call. They need to start blitzing to create some miss matches. Attack the offense.
They've been terrible, I focus on them and they make each OT look like pro bowlers
(11-30-2022, 09:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 07:38 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Might be time to send the ol corner blitz
They've sent Jenkins on a blitz 19 times this year, dude. Cisco has blitzed 5 times.
Our edge guys aren't getting there quickly enough and we don't have a legit interior pass rusher.
Hamilton is getting better and Fatukasi is a great runstuffer, but we need a 3Tech guy that can beat guards quickly.
Arden Key flashed in that role but has fallen off.
Allen seems weak for some reason on 60% of his snaps, looks like he's almost there on the rest.
Walker just needs to learn some hand technique and a couple moves inside. He gets tied up and can't free himself.
Better coverage will help both of them. Teams are getting the ball out quickly against us often.
These guys need to be getting home when QBs hold it though.
Not good enough
Listening to the Radio the other day...
I don't remember who it was, but they read my mind...
Why not move Walker to the inside and let him rush with his hand on the ground. Then, take Devon Lloyd and try him out as the edge rusher?
Walker and Lloyd are absolutely first round talents. But it's clear they are tweeners that need to be put in the right spots for thier talent. It's time to get imaginative and move those 2 guys arond.
Especially Walker. Walker loves to just bull rush on pass plays. Heck, just put him on a Guard and let him wreak havoc!
Lloyd is smart and fast, but he's lost out there at Will LB. Put him on the edge and let him pin his ears back and go after the QB. Lloyd looks like a swivel hipped Mo-Fo that can use his athleticism to get around the edge. Give him that opportunity.
Walker will be fine. He's hungry and talented. I rarely have high hopes for an incoming draft class because the off-season is so demanding for them. I think Walker should get his moves in the next couple years. Allen, on the other hand... not sure what to say about him. He's fast, but I think he's too light in the pants. He also gets held a LOT. Maybe Walker's development will take pressure off him, but that's not where I feel like he should be at this point in his career if he was truly an elite DE.
Do you really think Lloyd is big enough to be an edge rusher? Moving Walker inside on occasion isn't a terrible idea, but do you think it would hinder his development? Same goes for Lloyd.
(11-30-2022, 12:01 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 09:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They've sent Jenkins on a blitz 19 times this year, dude. Cisco has blitzed 5 times.
Our edge guys aren't getting there quickly enough and we don't have a legit interior pass rusher.
Hamilton is getting better and Fatukasi is a great runstuffer, but we need a 3Tech guy that can beat guards quickly.
Arden Key flashed in that role but has fallen off.
Allen seems weak for some reason on 60% of his snaps, looks like he's almost there on the rest.
Walker just needs to learn some hand technique and a couple moves inside. He gets tied up and can't free himself.
Better coverage will help both of them. Teams are getting the ball out quickly against us often.
These guys need to be getting home when QBs hold it though.
Not good enough
Listening to the Radio the other day...
I don't remember who it was, but they read my mind...
Why not move Walker to the inside and let him rush with his hand on the ground. Then, take Devon Lloyd and try him out as the edge rusher?
Walker and Lloyd are absolutely first round talents. But it's clear they are tweeners that need to be put in the right spots for thier talent. It's time to get imaginative and move those 2 guys arond.
Especially Walker. Walker loves to just bull rush on pass plays. Heck, just put him on a Guard and let him wreak havoc!
Lloyd is smart and fast, but he's lost out there at Will LB. Put him on the edge and let him pin his ears back and go after the QB. Lloyd looks like a swivel hipped Mo-Fo that can use his athleticism to get around the edge. Give him that opportunity.
Everyone here, on the radio/tv/internet and even the coaching staff have talked about getting Walker snaps inside at 3 tech ever since he was drafted.
The staff simply made a very common decision to allow him to learn one position at a time. And he clearly is still learning to rush from the edge.
Is it time to "prematurely" slide him inside despite that decision in June? Probably. Can't really hurt at this point IMO.
Will they do it?
No idea.
(11-30-2022, 12:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 12:01 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Radio the other day...
I don't remember who it was, but they read my mind...
Why not move Walker to the inside and let him rush with his hand on the ground. Then, take Devon Lloyd and try him out as the edge rusher?
Walker and Lloyd are absolutely first round talents. But it's clear they are tweeners that need to be put in the right spots for thier talent. It's time to get imaginative and move those 2 guys arond.
Especially Walker. Walker loves to just bull rush on pass plays. Heck, just put him on a Guard and let him wreak havoc!
Lloyd is smart and fast, but he's lost out there at Will LB. Put him on the edge and let him pin his ears back and go after the QB. Lloyd looks like a swivel hipped Mo-Fo that can use his athleticism to get around the edge. Give him that opportunity.
Everyone here, on the radio/tv/internet and even the coaching staff have talked about getting Walker snaps inside at 3 tech ever since he was drafted.
The staff simply made a very common decision to allow him to learn one position at a time. And he clearly is still learning to rush from the edge.
Is it time to "prematurely" slide him inside despite that decision in June? Probably. Can't really hurt at this point IMO.
Will they do it?
No idea.
They allowed him to learn one position? Eh... I mean, that's a nice platitude. But he's doing the same thing in week 11 that he was doing in week 1.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a football player. But I've been coached and trained before. What I see from Walker in week 11 is the same I've seen from him 4 months ago. He's either not willing to learn, or this isn't the best position for him.
That's just my opinion. I'm not a football savant or anything. I'm just watching the games like everyone else. Walker has talent. But it doesn't look like he's an Edge rusher. That's just what I see. And the clamor and clangor is getting louder.
EDIT - I'm not calling Walker a bust. Matter of fact, I still thing he's special. I'm just saying that we are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Let him succeed where he feels the most comfortable.
(11-30-2022, 12:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 12:01 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Radio the other day...
I don't remember who it was, but they read my mind...
Why not move Walker to the inside and let him rush with his hand on the ground. Then, take Devon Lloyd and try him out as the edge rusher?
Walker and Lloyd are absolutely first round talents. But it's clear they are tweeners that need to be put in the right spots for thier talent. It's time to get imaginative and move those 2 guys arond.
Especially Walker. Walker loves to just bull rush on pass plays. Heck, just put him on a Guard and let him wreak havoc!
Lloyd is smart and fast, but he's lost out there at Will LB. Put him on the edge and let him pin his ears back and go after the QB. Lloyd looks like a swivel hipped Mo-Fo that can use his athleticism to get around the edge. Give him that opportunity.
Everyone here, on the radio/tv/internet and even the coaching staff have talked about getting Walker snaps inside at 3 tech ever since he was drafted.
The staff simply made a very common decision to allow him to learn one position at a time. And he clearly is still learning to rush from the edge.
Is it time to "prematurely" slide him inside despite that decision in June? Probably. Can't really hurt at this point IMO.
Will they do it?
No idea.
I think they'll eventually have to do something along these lines. The premier pass rushers in this league, for the most part, they tend to move around a lot. It's rare you'll see a traditional or pure LE or RE just stay at their one spot.
My only argument with Walker being strictly at his current position is due to their zone scheme and the fact that they're probably more concerned with not getting ran over or around if Walker is out of position. Which, for me? I don't think it's something you have to do a whole lot of.
If it's an obvious 3rd and long passing situations? They need to consider Walker inside, right over the Guard or Center and they need to figure out a way to stunt Lloyd or Allen around him and Fatukasi/Hamilton. The [BLEEP] that they've been doing on the edge is vanilla at best, and that's putting it lightly.
It's the same players doing the same moves with no results. Didn't matter if it was a 1st, 2nd or 3rd string OT that Allen or Walker were up against. They just bull rush. Muma and Oloukon man the middle. Let Walker, Lloyd and Allen move around a lot more on 3rd and long passing situations. I think it would be a decent start.
Pederson said, it's a new year coming back from the Bye Week. So, why the hell not? Let's get a little more flexible and creative out there. Also, where the hell is Smoot? Seems like he gets hot and then all of a sudden he's benched or not out there. What was his snap count on Sunday and in Kansas City? Curious.
Sacks are nice, but disruption can be just as nice, as we seen on Sunday.
(11-29-2022, 10:56 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]Pass Rusher looks to be a more glaring issue as time goes on. Josh Allen has got had a sack since October 2nd while Travon Walkers last sack was on October 23rd. The team has to find different ways to get to the Qb. I would allow Walker to try some more 3 technique like he did and college while allowing Lloyd to rush the Qb like in college. Good teams adjust. Right now the pass rush is not getting it done.
Yes, since Muma seems to be taking Lloyd's snaps, so Lloyd should start taking pass-rushing snaps. Travon needs more interior snaps to to audition to be Smoot's or Key's replacement. Ideally, only one of them should be resigned.
(11-30-2022, 12:01 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Radio the other day...
I don't remember who it was, but they read my mind...
Why not move Walker to the inside and let him rush with his hand on the ground. Then, take Devon Lloyd and try him out as the edge rusher?
Walker and Lloyd are absolutely first round talents. But it's clear they are tweeners that need to be put in the right spots for thier talent. It's time to get imaginative and move those 2 guys arond.
Especially Walker. Walker loves to just bull rush on pass plays. Heck, just put him on a Guard and let him wreak havoc!
Lloyd is smart and fast, but he's lost out there at Will LB. Put him on the edge and let him pin his ears back and go after the QB. Lloyd looks like a swivel hipped Mo-Fo that can use his athleticism to get around the edge. Give him that opportunity.
I've been hearing this a lot as well. We talked about this all offseason how it was a weak draft at the top so this is part of the excuse for Walker. But you have to hate the idea of taking two guys in the first round and forcing them to learn new roles. Ideally a first rounder, especially a #1 overall draft pick, should come in being able to translate what he did well in college and continuing doing that in the NFL. In a perfect world you arent taking guys in the first round who are just athletes and now asking them to learn to do things they either didnt do well in college or didnt do at all. With Walker we are asking him to play a role he didnt do in college. And Lloyd we are asking him to do things he supposedly wasnt great at in college. You should be drafting guys in the first round who excelled at something in college and should excel at that in the NFL. If you have to learn all new skills or a whole new role to be a good NFL player maybe you shouldnt be a first rounder.
I get with Walker you think he has the ability to do well in a pass rushing 3-4 LB role. And I understand why maybe you'd want to avoid stunting his development (although I still think having him rush inside on ocassion wouldnt be a bad thing). For Lloyd though he looks lost. Let him do what he did well in college which is rush from the LB spot and let him get his confidence back.
Expecting walker to take a massive leap come next season as well as lloyd
Patience people patience
They are both awful and not doing their jobs.
(11-30-2022, 08:59 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Expecting walker to take a massive leap come next season as well as lloyd
Patience people patience
It is crazy to expect production out of the number 1 pick in the draft? Call me crazy.
(11-30-2022, 09:19 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 08:59 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Expecting walker to take a massive leap come next season as well as lloyd
Patience people patience
It is crazy to expect production out of the number 1 pick in the draft? Call me crazy.
Ofc but a rookie is still a rookie
(11-30-2022, 06:55 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 09:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They've sent Jenkins on a blitz 19 times this year, dude. Cisco has blitzed 5 times.
Our edge guys aren't getting there quickly enough and we don't have a legit interior pass rusher.
Hamilton is getting better and Fatukasi is a great runstuffer, but we need a 3Tech guy that can beat guards quickly.
Arden Key flashed in that role but has fallen off.
Allen seems weak for some reason on 60% of his snaps, looks like he's almost there on the rest.
Walker just needs to learn some hand technique and a couple moves inside. He gets tied up and can't free himself.
Better coverage will help both of them. Teams are getting the ball out quickly against us often.
These guys need to be getting home when QBs hold it though.
Not good enough
Jenkins plays corner ?
LOL
It's a DB blitz either way - basically the same thing
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to send the SS when one of your corners are already having trouble in coverage
(11-30-2022, 01:08 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (11-30-2022, 12:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone here, on the radio/tv/internet and even the coaching staff have talked about getting Walker snaps inside at 3 tech ever since he was drafted.
The staff simply made a very common decision to allow him to learn one position at a time. And he clearly is still learning to rush from the edge.
Is it time to "prematurely" slide him inside despite that decision in June? Probably. Can't really hurt at this point IMO.
Will they do it?
No idea.
They allowed him to learn one position? Eh... I mean, that's a nice platitude. But he's doing the same thing in week 11 that he was doing in week 1.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a football player. But I've been coached and trained before. What I see from Walker in week 11 is the same I've seen from him 4 months ago. He's either not willing to learn, or this isn't the best position for him.
That's just my opinion. I'm not a football savant or anything. I'm just watching the games like everyone else. Walker has talent. But it doesn't look like he's an Edge rusher. That's just what I see. And the clamor and clangor is getting louder.
EDIT - I'm not calling Walker a bust. Matter of fact, I still thing he's special. I'm just saying that we are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Let him succeed where he feels the most comfortable.
Pass rushers take time to develop. Happens all the time.
I realize we live in the age of impatience and overreaction but 11 games from a rookie ain't jack [BLEEP] to judge anything by
You're being ridiculous
The staff thinks the best way to develop this special talent is to teach him how to rush from the edge and then begin moving him to other spots.
You're simply too impatient to let Doug Pederson, Mike Caldwell, and Brenton Buckner put their 30+ years of NFL coaching experience to work at fulfilling their plan for the young man.
I think they'll get him the tools he needs to succeed in time and I realize it may be 2023 before we see more impact.
It is what it is.