(10-01-2023, 07:37 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t give a blue monkey jack rabbit heck how you get sacks, just get them. It changes the entire game. Bottom line bidness boys.
Dude is leading the NFL in sacks heading into week 5
1. Josh Allen - 6
1. TJ Watt - 6
3. Myles Garrett - 5.5
4. D. Hunter - 5
5. M. Parsons - 4
5. M. Judon - 4
This is RARE for Jaguars fans. It ain’t my fault it was against Richardson and Ridder. You get ‘em where you get em. Allen still lined up and beat the LT’s.
Reminds me of the year JJ Watt had 19 or 20 seconds and like 6 of them were on Blaine Gabbert lol
(10-02-2023, 03:08 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]Hes our best player on defense and at a premium position. Why do people want to let him walk?
Tyson Campbell is our best player on defense but Allen definitely is sliding into the #2 spot as of late.
(10-01-2023, 09:31 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 08:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Lol. Week after week, bad take after bad take. You never fail to get worse with your opinions.
What? What would you pay Allen?
It's easy throw a roast. But tell me what you'd pay Allen based on his performance?
Honestly, what is Josh Allen doing when it really matters that you think he needs to be over-paid??
You're talking definitively about his value, but it's clear you haven't looked at the market for his position. Where are you putting him on this list?
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/con...inebacker/
Or this one:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/ini...inebacker/
Or this one:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/ave...inebacker/
The answer is his final contract numbers at minimum will land at 6th or better on each of those lists assuming he continues playing and producing as he has through these first 4 weeks.
He's easily on his way to getting more than twice what you suggest or tagged if the Jags decide they want to see more first. It's not our money and there's no real intrinsic value for a football players services, only market value. If he stays on or close to this pace, his market value will be much higher than you suggest.
(10-01-2023, 06:14 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You tag him at the minimum.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Beginning to think this may be the best option. As you said, how is his production replaced if he leaves?
Let’s see how the rest of the season plays out. But before I committed to a huge contract to Allen I want to see two good years back to back. I want to see some consistency.
Am I the only one who believes Josh Allen Will immediately regress to mediocrity as soon as he inks a new contract?
Just sayin’.
(10-02-2023, 12:24 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one who believes Josh Allen Will immediately regress to mediocrity as soon as he inks a new contract?
Just sayin’.
Could be, but his market value is what it is. Tagging him seems like a prudent choice.
Here's spotrac's calculation of his projected market value.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville...ket-value/
(10-02-2023, 12:24 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one who believes Josh Allen Will immediately regress to mediocrity as soon as he inks a new contract?
Just sayin’.
I think half of Jags nation feels that way, but we have no way of knowing how that plays out and the market is what the market is.
If they risk letting him walk, they have to find a way to replace him while still addressing a minimum of two spots on the OL + nickel corner + Ridley's deal or replacement + Trevor's giant deal + 5 or 6 role players who are set to walk next year.
Adding "replace your only effective pass rusher" to that list is a tall order, brougham.
(10-02-2023, 12:24 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one who believes Josh Allen Will immediately regress to mediocrity as soon as he inks a new contract?
Just sayin’.
Naturally. He's still an above average player though. It would be one thing if he was looking for TJ Watt money, which is more than likely going to be shattered anyway once Micah Parsons starts seeking his second contract extension. I don't he will be though. I think him and his agent will make a strong push to crack the top five currently.
Which is fair. He's been a better and more durable player than Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary have been over the last two, three years.
My main concerns are backfilling, production and draft capital. We will not have the resources next year to backfill yet another pass rushing position and then hope we get production of him. We already may have failed with Travon Walker's selection over Aidan Hutchinson.
We've really pissed away Lawrence's rookie contract window. We're [BLEEP]. I think we're on the verge of imploding financially and I am not sure I want to see Baalke around for the restructuring process. I think he invested a ton of money at fixing up the WR, TE, LB & CB room while failing miserably in adequately supplying consistent, competent football players along the offensive line and defensive line.
I bet we'll see a concerted effort next year, but, the idea of this team winning a Superbowl or making a heavy play off push and deep run are out of my mind now. I think we'll have to wait at least another three, four years now with Lawrence.
(10-02-2023, 12:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 12:24 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one who believes Josh Allen Will immediately regress to mediocrity as soon as he inks a new contract?
Just sayin’.
Naturally. He's still an above average player though. It would be one thing if he was looking for TJ Watt money, which is more than likely going to be shattered anyway once Micah Parsons starts seeking his second contract extension. I don't he will be though. I think him and his agent will make a strong push to crack the top five currently.
Which is fair. He's been a better and more durable player than Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary have been over the last two, three years.
My main concerns are backfilling, production and draft capital. We will not have the resources next year to backfill yet another pass rushing position and then hope we get production of him. We already may have failed with Travon Walker's selection over Aidan Hutchinson.
We've really pissed away Lawrence's rookie contract window. We're [BLEEP]. I think we're on the verge of imploding financially and I am not sure I want to see Baalke around for the restructuring process. I think he invested a ton of money at fixing up the WR, TE, LB & CB room while failing miserably in adequately supplying consistent, competent football players along the offensive line and defensive line.
I bet we'll see a concerted effort next year, but, the idea of this team winning a Superbowl or making a heavy play off push and deep run are out of my mind now. I think we'll have to wait at least another three, four years now with Lawrence.
C'mon man. This is an over reaction to a couple of bad games. You wouldn't be saying that had we pulled it out against the chiefs and not mailed it in to some degree against the tinhorns. Bad games happen to most teams even Super Bowl winning ones. Bad stretches of games happen to good teams every single year. Our window is now and it will still be our window in 3 or 4 years as well. We may not have the best roster on paper, but we have a roster than that is good enough and can go deep in the playoffs this year. Even the best rosters have weaknesses. You can hope for more than that, but that's all you can really ask for in this league.
(10-02-2023, 01:09 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 12:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Naturally. He's still an above average player though. It would be one thing if he was looking for TJ Watt money, which is more than likely going to be shattered anyway once Micah Parsons starts seeking his second contract extension. I don't he will be though. I think him and his agent will make a strong push to crack the top five currently.
Which is fair. He's been a better and more durable player than Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary have been over the last two, three years.
My main concerns are backfilling, production and draft capital. We will not have the resources next year to backfill yet another pass rushing position and then hope we get production of him. We already may have failed with Travon Walker's selection over Aidan Hutchinson.
We've really pissed away Lawrence's rookie contract window. We're [BLEEP]. I think we're on the verge of imploding financially and I am not sure I want to see Baalke around for the restructuring process. I think he invested a ton of money at fixing up the WR, TE, LB & CB room while failing miserably in adequately supplying consistent, competent football players along the offensive line and defensive line.
I bet we'll see a concerted effort next year, but, the idea of this team winning a Superbowl or making a heavy play off push and deep run are out of my mind now. I think we'll have to wait at least another three, four years now with Lawrence.
C'mon man. This is an over reaction to a couple of bad games. You wouldn't be saying that had we pulled it out against the chiefs and not mailed it in to some degree against the tinhorns. Bad games happen to most teams even Super Bowl winning ones. Bad stretches of games happen to good teams every single year. Our window is now and it will still be our window in 3 or 4 years as well. We may not have the best roster on paper, but we have a roster than that is good enough and can go deep in the playoffs this year. Even the best rosters have weaknesses. You can hope for more than that, but that's all you can really ask for in this league.
No. Not really. I was on record back in January immediately after the loss in Kansas City. Citing the same exact challenges that the Bengals had during their run where they were ultimately exposed by the Rams front with their inferior offensive lineman unit.
My assessment was that, we would be entering a perceived, weak AFC South in 2023. We're all equal now at 2 - 2 and each team has some qualities that are noteworthy in the long run.
Our problem is that we're weak on both sides of the line. We're not going to have enough fire power on defense unless Walker wakes up opposite of Allen and we hope for a healthy Smoot and Hamilton entering the rotation with fresh legs and game breaking abilities right off the bat.
The other problem is resting right between our LT and rookie RT. That whole interior is what is going to prevent this team from making a serious push for a title. It's just not in the cards. We'll probably see exactly what I mean this Sunday against the Bills.
I think we'll get bullied by the tacks twice this year with their line play on both sides. I fully mean that. They're better coached than our guys positionally. My reasoning behind waiting another three, four years is easy to understand.
Baalke's free agency class from two years ago will be on it's way out by the end of 2024. By the time Baalke or a new GM figures out how to draft offensive lineman and defensive lineman properly? Guess what you're now missing? A solid receiving core, a dominate TE presence, a speedy RB, a league leading tackler at inside backer, a quality CB in Campbell.
Already behind the 8-ball entering 2024's draft next year.
(10-02-2023, 01:09 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 12:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Naturally. He's still an above average player though. It would be one thing if he was looking for TJ Watt money, which is more than likely going to be shattered anyway once Micah Parsons starts seeking his second contract extension. I don't he will be though. I think him and his agent will make a strong push to crack the top five currently.
Which is fair. He's been a better and more durable player than Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary have been over the last two, three years.
My main concerns are backfilling, production and draft capital. We will not have the resources next year to backfill yet another pass rushing position and then hope we get production of him. We already may have failed with Travon Walker's selection over Aidan Hutchinson.
We've really pissed away Lawrence's rookie contract window. We're [BLEEP]. I think we're on the verge of imploding financially and I am not sure I want to see Baalke around for the restructuring process. I think he invested a ton of money at fixing up the WR, TE, LB & CB room while failing miserably in adequately supplying consistent, competent football players along the offensive line and defensive line.
I bet we'll see a concerted effort next year, but, the idea of this team winning a Superbowl or making a heavy play off push and deep run are out of my mind now. I think we'll have to wait at least another three, four years now with Lawrence.
C'mon man. This is an over reaction to a couple of bad games. You wouldn't be saying that had we pulled it out against the chiefs and not mailed it in to some degree against the tinhorns. Bad games happen to most teams even Super Bowl winning ones. Bad stretches of games happen to good teams every single year. Our window is now and it will still be our window in 3 or 4 years as well. We may not have the best roster on paper, but we have a roster than that is good enough and can go deep in the playoffs this year. Even the best rosters have weaknesses. You can hope for more than that, but that's all you can really ask for in this league.
The Bengals are getting CRUSHED this season and I doubt their fans are feeling the doom and gloom about the future.
This team is 2-2 and it hasn't come close to playing it's best football yet. They get hot in December again? I can see them making a run in the playoffs.
(10-02-2023, 01:25 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 01:09 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon man. This is an over reaction to a couple of bad games. You wouldn't be saying that had we pulled it out against the chiefs and not mailed it in to some degree against the tinhorns. Bad games happen to most teams even Super Bowl winning ones. Bad stretches of games happen to good teams every single year. Our window is now and it will still be our window in 3 or 4 years as well. We may not have the best roster on paper, but we have a roster than that is good enough and can go deep in the playoffs this year. Even the best rosters have weaknesses. You can hope for more than that, but that's all you can really ask for in this league.
The Bengals are getting CRUSHED this season and I doubt their fans are feeling this way.
This team is 2-2 and it hasn't come close to playing it's best football yet. They get hot in December again? I can see them making a run in the playoffs.
A shallow run, sure. A deep run? Doubtful. We can maybe cover up enough of our weaknesses to barely skate in but I doubt this team will be ready to go toe to toe, blow for blow with teams like Miami, Buffalo and Kansas City. I just don't see it. Again, all of that can change. I understand it's early.
However, a lot has to go our way. Starting with the interior line play improvement on offense, Walker waking up opposite of Allen and hoping for healthier rotational lineman pieces to return from injury on defense. Too many variables there in the grand scheme of things.
(10-02-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 01:25 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]The Bengals are getting CRUSHED this season and I doubt their fans are feeling this way.
This team is 2-2 and it hasn't come close to playing it's best football yet. They get hot in December again? I can see them making a run in the playoffs.
A shallow run, sure. A deep run? Doubtful. We can maybe cover up enough of our weaknesses to barely skate in but I doubt this team will be ready to go toe to toe, blow for blow with teams like Miami, Buffalo and Kansas City. I just don't see it. Again, all of that can change. I understand it's early.
However, a lot has to go our way. Starting with the interior line play improvement on offense, Walker waking up opposite of Allen and hoping for healthier rotational lineman pieces to return from injury on defense. Too many variables there in the grand scheme of things.
While I don't disagree entirely, I disagree with the premise that it'll take another 3-5 years.
They have the coach. They have the QB.
When you have those two things, you make a run just about every year.
(10-02-2023, 11:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 11:17 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Little has like 8 starts
Cisco is highly overrated on this board but the guy is nothing special
Campbell is the only one really worthy of a nice contract
I disagree with your view of Allen. Also, better O-line and we win those same game much easier and maybe even win the Texans game where they had almost an entire backup O-line playing and Allen did nothing.
Little is currently our best lineman. Should be an inexpensive starter at LT to save cap space.
Cisco has made multiple turnovers this year, has an enforcing presence as well in the secondary.
It's a risk either way. My concern, again, where are you going to get the production from? With limited draft capital in April of next year?
We're on the hook for a 2nd or 3rd with Atlanta due to the Ridley trade. Baalke really [BLEEP] up with those 13 picks.
Looks like we should have went Torrence at LG and traded up for Joe Tippmann at C.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Caldrac did u call 1010 today? They were talking about Torrence instead of Strange.
(10-01-2023, 08:28 PM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]This guy saying offer Allen 9 mil…lol
Lol!!
(10-02-2023, 10:46 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 06:42 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with every sentence. 100 tag hun at minimum. It would be crazy if Allen don’t finish the year with 12-15 sacks after getting 6 in the first 4 games. If he can get 15 he will ho All-Pro and earn his 2nd Pro Bowl selection. This is a great problem to have.
Dude is gonna get a BAG if he continues to ball out. I welcome it, we need a premiere pass rusher! If this team could ever hit on another decent/good end rusher Allen would be dominant.
Oh for sure. If he fizzles out he will fumble the bag. Jaguars will probably tag him and then he will holdout..you know the drill. Or maybe they let him walk like they did Jawaan. I’m taking full advantage of Allen’s bag hunt this year.
(10-02-2023, 01:09 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 12:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Naturally. He's still an above average player though. It would be one thing if he was looking for TJ Watt money, which is more than likely going to be shattered anyway once Micah Parsons starts seeking his second contract extension. I don't he will be though. I think him and his agent will make a strong push to crack the top five currently.
Which is fair. He's been a better and more durable player than Joey Bosa and Rashan Gary have been over the last two, three years.
My main concerns are backfilling, production and draft capital. We will not have the resources next year to backfill yet another pass rushing position and then hope we get production of him. We already may have failed with Travon Walker's selection over Aidan Hutchinson.
We've really pissed away Lawrence's rookie contract window. We're [BLEEP]. I think we're on the verge of imploding financially and I am not sure I want to see Baalke around for the restructuring process. I think he invested a ton of money at fixing up the WR, TE, LB & CB room while failing miserably in adequately supplying consistent, competent football players along the offensive line and defensive line.
I bet we'll see a concerted effort next year, but, the idea of this team winning a Superbowl or making a heavy play off push and deep run are out of my mind now. I think we'll have to wait at least another three, four years now with Lawrence.
C'mon man. This is an over reaction to a couple of bad games. You wouldn't be saying that had we pulled it out against the chiefs and not mailed it in to some degree against the tinhorns. Bad games happen to most teams even Super Bowl winning ones. Bad stretches of games happen to good teams every single year. Our window is now and it will still be our window in 3 or 4 years as well. We may not have the best roster on paper, but we have a roster than that is good enough and can go deep in the playoffs this year. Even the best rosters have weaknesses. You can hope for more than that, but that's all you can really ask for in this league.
I think the cap situation and team regression is something to worry about if we don't somehow pull it together this year and go deep and at least make a SB appearance. If we win a SB or at least make an appearance, everything was worth it.
Either way, Trevor will want top $ regardless if he's deserving of it or not... He will be making 45-50mil a year and will be a large part of our cap space. Compile that with how we've built this team (mainly through free agency) and cap hell is a real possibility, or at least losing a good deal of talent because of our lackluster drafts. That, and Trevor isn't Peyton Manning 2.0, so luring FAs here on the cheap literally won't happen.
So to worry about the team's cap room/depth and progress after Trevor is off the rookie deal is definitely a concern. Once you pay the QB, he has to carry that team as he will be 20%+ of the cap hit.
(10-01-2023, 01:46 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 01:39 PM)Go Jagwaas Derp Wrote: [ -> ]Hope next week we can have another “Josh Allen intercepted by Josh Allen”
Or Josh Allen sacked Josh Allen. ???
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
¿Por qué no los dos?
(10-01-2023, 03:42 PM)wg171 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 03:05 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...98342?s=20
Allen had a really good rookie year and he is off to a fantastic start this season. What happened to him after that rookie year? Is his performance so far due to him wanting to get paid in FA?? Will he be a dominate force once he does get paid or fade into mediocrity??
Totally dominates in some games and then almost disappears in others. He is truly an enigma to me.
He had a great rookie season because Calais was a force on the opposite side. Calais left, and guys like Chaisson and Walker are not providing the same level of disruption.
Now Allen is maturing and developing, and is the force. We need the next Josh Allen to step up and take advantage of the distraction he's causing on his side of the line.
(10-02-2023, 01:35 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 01:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A shallow run, sure. A deep run? Doubtful. We can maybe cover up enough of our weaknesses to barely skate in but I doubt this team will be ready to go toe to toe, blow for blow with teams like Miami, Buffalo and Kansas City. I just don't see it. Again, all of that can change. I understand it's early.
However, a lot has to go our way. Starting with the interior line play improvement on offense, Walker waking up opposite of Allen and hoping for healthier rotational lineman pieces to return from injury on defense. Too many variables there in the grand scheme of things.
While I don't disagree entirely, I disagree with the premise that it'll take another 3-5 years.
They have the coach. They have the QB.
When you have those two things, you make a run just about every year.
Maybe, maybe not. It's going to be tough sledding as the next few years progress and we're wishing we had more time in the pocket for Lawrence. Just like now, just like last year, just like during the play-off loss to the Chiefs. We're also going to wish we had more than one competent edge rusher to chase after Mahomes, Allen, Tagovailoa, Herbert, etc.
The candle is burning at both ends. That was my primary point earlier. By the time you think they have it altogether? Something else on the car falls apart. "Nice! We got the engine restocked, a set of new tires!" *moving along a few weeks into season* "Ahhhh [BLEEP]! We went over the mileage, didn't get the oil done on time, didn't check the coolant, damn, now the radiator is leaking water".
We'll finally get the horses up front in about two years, and then, we'll lose the skilled, premium options we have now at the skill positions. Instead of [BLEEP] about Lawrence not having enough time in the pocket? We'll be [BLEEP] about not having any big name receivers that can separate or take the top off a defense. We'll be [BLEEP] about a lackluster safety valve at TE and RB.
Instead of [BLEEP] about the lack of push on the defensive front? We'll be screaming when LB's get isolated and whiff on open tackles or a CB and S get roasted consistently. Classic.
(10-01-2023, 04:12 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 03:29 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting stat: Jacksonville's defense provided some international firsts. Jaguars pass rusher Josh Allen became the first player to record three sacks in a game overseas, and safety Darious Williams recorded the longest pick-six in international game history with his 61-yard TD.
Williams interception was also the 2nd longest interception returned for a TD in franchise history.
Beasley has the longest. I think Cisco has the 3rd longest. I don’t feel like conforming it.
If Allen keeps playing like this, somebody bout to throw racks his way. Don’t fumble the bag Allen. Some team out there will be willing to make him one of the highest defensive players in the league. He’s on his way to his 2nd Pro Bowl right now and possibly All-Pro.
Allen’s motto this season: sacks for racks
Ps…come on Rams!!! I’m tryna get that 1st place in the divison back.
I kinda feel like our hand is forced to be that bidder, at this point.
Unless Walker progresses to the next level of productivity, we'd be left back at square one and zero tangible pass rush if we let Allen walk.
(10-02-2023, 02:14 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 04:12 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Williams interception was also the 2nd longest interception returned for a TD in franchise history.
Beasley has the longest. I think Cisco has the 3rd longest. I don’t feel like conforming it.
If Allen keeps playing like this, somebody bout to throw racks his way. Don’t fumble the bag Allen. Some team out there will be willing to make him one of the highest defensive players in the league. He’s on his way to his 2nd Pro Bowl right now and possibly All-Pro.
Allen’s motto this season: sacks for racks
Ps…come on Rams!!! I’m tryna get that 1st place in the divison back.
I kinda feel like our hand is forced to be that bidder, at this point.
Unless Walker progresses to the next level of productivity, we'd be left back at square one and zero tangible pass rush if we let Allen walk.
Yep I agree. Without Allen we have no pass rushing playmakers/game changers/closers. It reminds me of the year Spicer held out and we had no choice but to pay him. Except Allen is on track for an All-Pro/Pro Bowl season right now which means we’re going to have to open up the check book. With Lawrence’s deal looming, the Jaguars won’t have much wiggle room in negotiations so they might tag Allen. Then around the corner you got to pay Campbell. Are they keeping Ridley? Etienne? Cisco, Jenkins, Robinson, etc.
Might not have enough loot in the inventory for Allen. Maybe Allen will play on the tag for a year and give us time to come up with some cash and we catch him on the flip.
(10-02-2023, 11:17 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Little has like 8 starts
Cisco is highly overrated on this board but the guy is nothing special
Campbell is the only one really worthy of a nice contract
I disagree with your view of Allen. Also, better O-line and we win those same game much easier and maybe even win the Texans game, where they had almost an entire backup O-line playing and Allen did nothing.
Cisco is the 3rd highest graded safety in the league through 4 games and josh allen is the 7th graded pass rusher. I think it's more you underrating them than others overrating them. You seem to have a know it all attitude so I'm sure you'll have some smug response saying you know more than professionals do when evaluating play.