11-20-2023, 08:29 PM
11-21-2023, 08:59 PM
11-21-2023, 11:10 PM
11-22-2023, 09:49 AM
The Jags are clearly better than the bad teams, as good as the good teams, and not quite as good as the great ones. An ascending team with a very bright future.
11-22-2023, 10:18 AM
(11-22-2023, 09:49 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags are clearly better than the bad teams, as good as the good teams, and not quite as good as the great ones. An ascending team with a very bright future.
Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
11-22-2023, 10:24 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]This is my concern as well. Once your free agency classes start getting up there in age or closer to contracts expiring you're now left with your draft classes.(11-22-2023, 09:49 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags are clearly better than the bad teams, as good as the good teams, and not quite as good as the great ones. An ascending team with a very bright future.
Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
Baalke or whomever ends up here in maybe an executive role, something they entertained earlier this year I think with Rick Spielman.
I agree, going to be hard to get over the hump. The 49ers are a prime example of this. So are the Eagles. Landing quality players in the draft enables you to do a lot more as a football team with little drop off or needs where you can make a trade or two for a missing piece.
Even winning teams with late picks figure it out better than most. Kansas City seems to do good enough.
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11-22-2023, 10:28 AM
Even the sunniest of days are cloudy to some people.
11-22-2023, 10:31 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.This is my concern as well. Once your free agency classes start getting up there in age or closer to contracts expiring you're now left with your draft classes.
Baalke or whomever ends up here in maybe an executive role, something they entertained earlier this year I think with Rick Spielman.
I agree, going to be hard to get over the hump. The 49ers are a prime example of this. So are the Eagles. Landing quality players in the draft enables you to do a lot more as a football team with little drop off or needs where you can make a trade or two for a missing piece.
Even winning teams with late picks figure it out better than most. Kansas City seems to do good enough.
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I know time flies when you're having fun, but that was last year.
(11-22-2023, 10:28 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Even the sunniest of days are cloudy to some people.
Yeah I got news for you guys with hate boners for Baalke, he's probably not going anywhere for a long time.
11-22-2023, 10:34 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.This is my concern as well. Once your free agency classes start getting up there in age or closer to contracts expiring you're now left with your draft classes.
Baalke or whomever ends up here in maybe an executive role, something they entertained earlier this year I think with Rick Spielman.
I agree, going to be hard to get over the hump. The 49ers are a prime example of this. So are the Eagles. Landing quality players in the draft enables you to do a lot more as a football team with little drop off or needs where you can make a trade or two for a missing piece.
I honestly think Buffalo and Kansas City have slowly started suffering from lack luster drafts.
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Kc has drafted an incredible defense, so they'll continue to be good even if it's in a different way than they have been, but you're right about Buffalo.
Here in Jax we're going to have to either give a massive contact to Josh Allen or lose him with no one of his ability to replace him. Oluokon has a huge number for a linebacker next year. Agnew will be gone, and likely the same for Ridley and Scherf. Plus the Jaguars have huge cap outlays on guys like Kirk and Robinson that will probably need restructuring if we want to keep them around.
I'm not saying the Jaguars can't continue to succeed without some guys, but getting better doesn't look likely right now.
11-22-2023, 10:35 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:28 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Even the sunniest of days are cloudy to some people.
The future is bright. Maybe. Sometimes that light at the end of your tunnel was just a freight train coming your way.
I am more optimistic than most though. If we're looking back at the previous drafts there's good talent that needs to be extended here.
Little at LT
Campbell at CB
Cisco at S
I think Brown at CB has earned an extension. I think Walker at OLB and Lloyd at ILB are absolutely ascending and will earn their extensions, especially going into next year. I think offensively it'll be interesting. Harrison is promising at RT. Fortner leaves a lot to be desired at Center. We have some holes to address at Guard, and maybe we already did that with Cleveland in before the trade deadline.
I think we invested some picks in areas though that are hindering the team right now. Muma being a 3rd RD pick. Miller being a 4th RD pick. Bigsby being a 3rd RD pick. Jury is still out some of these guys but in the interim it just seems very, very wasteful. We'll see. I don't think Baalke is the answer but I also don't think he's completely the problem.
He absolutely got it done in free agency. I do think though that we need another layer in the building to help intermediate, educate or see something differently evaluation wise between Pederson and Baalke. A VP or EVP like Rick Spielman could help us in some instances. Maybe Rick Smith if he's out there still and interested in getting back into football at some capacity.
11-22-2023, 10:35 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 09:49 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags are clearly better than the bad teams, as good as the good teams, and not quite as good as the great ones. An ascending team with a very bright future.
Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.
Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely. Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance. What a disaster that was. And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal. That was a terrible deal.
Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about. Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.
11-22-2023, 10:36 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:31 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:24 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is my concern as well. Once your free agency classes start getting up there in age or closer to contracts expiring you're now left with your draft classes.
Baalke or whomever ends up here in maybe an executive role, something they entertained earlier this year I think with Rick Spielman.
I agree, going to be hard to get over the hump. The 49ers are a prime example of this. So are the Eagles. Landing quality players in the draft enables you to do a lot more as a football team with little drop off or needs where you can make a trade or two for a missing piece.
Even winning teams with late picks figure it out better than most. Kansas City seems to do good enough.
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I know time flies when you're having fun, but that was last year.
(11-22-2023, 10:28 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Even the sunniest of days are cloudy to some people.
Yeah I got news for you guys with hate boners for Baalke, he's probably not going anywhere for a long time.
Agreed. It's probably the weed and wine catching up to me at 35.
11-22-2023, 10:40 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:35 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.
Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely. Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance. What a disaster that was. And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal. That was a terrible deal.
Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about. Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.
Don't forget the part where they focus more on a stat line than on watching a particular player play and go "Aha! See I knew he was terrible."
11-22-2023, 10:43 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:35 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.
Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely. Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance. What a disaster that was. And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal. That was a terrible deal.
Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about. Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.
I agree to some extent. Every team is going to have some swings and misses. It's just math at the end of the day. Those teams often find ways to overcome those mistakes though. Nobody cares about the Trey Lance failure when you backfilled his job with Mr. Irrelevant and you still have guys like McCaffrey, Kittle, Aiyuk, Samuel & Williams on offense with Bosa, Warner and now Young on defense.
Kansas City still has a 7 - 3 record and is only 1 game behind Baltimore for the 1 seed. I don't think anybody cares about the Taylor signing when they're seeing guys like McDuffie, Sneed, Gay, Karlaftis and Jones getting it done enough on defense. They should have beat the Eagles. Mahomes tossed an endzone INT, Kelce fumbled inside the 10 and Scantling dropped a perfect TD pass to take the win.
They also found guys like Pacheco late last year and Rice this year at WR. Sky Moore, Noah, etc. We'll have our moment as a football team. Hell, it might be our year for all we know. We'll see more of it become a reality hopefully this Sunday with a win in Houston. If not? We're still ascending.
(11-22-2023, 10:40 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:35 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.
Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely. Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance. What a disaster that was. And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal. That was a terrible deal.
Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about. Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.
Don't forget the part where they focus more on a stat line than on watching a particular player play and go "Aha! See I knew he was terrible."
This I also agree with. That stat buffs around here or out there. I only care about the Wins and Losses columns. This team has been winning plenty since last year. That's all that matters. Whether you win pretty or win ugly. A win's a win.
11-22-2023, 11:17 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:40 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:35 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.
Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely. Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance. What a disaster that was. And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal. That was a terrible deal.
Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about. Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.
Don't forget the part where they focus more on a stat line than on watching a particular player play and go "Aha! See I knew he was terrible."
My opinions on the quality of the roster aren't about stats, it's about the eye test.
When I watch the Jaguars play what I see is a very well coached team getting the most out of a so-so defensive roster and a QB playing behind a bad offensive line.
Whose fault is it that the line is bad? Whose fault is it that the defense can mostly bend without breaking against bad offensive teams (until those teams decide they have to throw deep, then they go right down the field for TDs during points in the game when that should be the thing our defense is the most focused on stopping) but get run over by the 49ers and texans?
11-22-2023, 11:44 AM
(11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 09:49 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags are clearly better than the bad teams, as good as the good teams, and not quite as good as the great ones. An ascending team with a very bright future.
Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
Just look at the win column and quit tying yourself into a pretzel trying to find a way to misinterpret that.
11-22-2023, 12:02 PM
(11-22-2023, 11:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:18 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]
Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.
Just look at the win column and quit tying yourself into a pretzel trying to find a way to misinterpret that.
We're talking acceleration, here, not velocity. The team is good right now, I just don't see them as ascending, anymore.
At this point they need to get lucky with a draft pick or two turning into an elite player if they're going to get better, because they're at the point where picking middling players won't overcome normal attrition and they won't have cap space to sign elite guys in free agency, and taking middling players is what Baalke does on a good day.
11-22-2023, 12:12 PM
(11-22-2023, 11:17 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 10:40 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Don't forget the part where they focus more on a stat line than on watching a particular player play and go "Aha! See I knew he was terrible."
My opinions on the quality of the roster aren't about stats, it's about the eye test.
When I watch the Jaguars play what I see is a very well coached team getting the most out of a so-so defensive roster and a QB playing behind a bad offensive line.
Whose fault is it that the line is bad? Whose fault is it that the defense can mostly bend without breaking against bad offensive teams (until those teams decide they have to throw deep, then they go right down the field for TDs during points in the game when that should be the thing our defense is the most focused on stopping) but get run over by the 49ers and texans?
That wasn't directed specifically at you or any one person in particular, there are a lot of stat boys here. I will say though that you've adopted a very strong opinion off of, quite frankly, little information and many assumptions. You do you, but that's something I try to avoid. I could go on, but I've learned less is more in recent years so I'll leave it at this: Just because you need something on your roster, doesn't mean it was necessarily readily available when you went shopping in the offseason. Also, this roster has to be considered at least above average on the whole, right?
11-22-2023, 12:16 PM
11-22-2023, 12:29 PM
(11-22-2023, 12:02 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ](11-22-2023, 11:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just look at the win column and quit tying yourself into a pretzel trying to find a way to misinterpret that.
We're talking acceleration, here, not velocity. The team is good right now, I just don't see them as ascending, anymore.
At this point they need to get lucky with a draft pick or two turning into an elite player if they're going to get better, because they're at the point where picking middling players won't overcome normal attrition and they won't have cap space to sign elite guys in free agency, and taking middling players is what Baalke does on a good day.
They need to hit on a couple of picks in the next draft. Sure.
So that means they are not ascending?
Meh - I don't know.
They just hit 7-3 at week eleven.
They have only won 7 games in an entire season 3 times in the past 13 seasons. Don't overthink it. That feels like ascent.
Baalke needs to oversee a difficult offseason with big contracts to sort, a cap to finesse, and he'll need to hit on a couple of draft picks. It really doesn't seem insurmountable for him IMO. Not easy, not impossible.
If he mismanages the cap and lands another Brenton Strange/Luke Fortner type pick or two - then we can start pumping the brakes on our "ascent"
But if he gets the deals done with room to work, adds talent to the OL, and drafts guys more like his Cisco, Lloyd, Campbell type picks, then we are still onward and upward.
Personally - I'm concerned with player development on that OL as much as acquisition.
We need a line coach that can get production out of Fortner/Shatley types like DeShea Townsend gets out of Herndon/Junior/Brown/Wingard.