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Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4? They’re really not considered premium spots.

(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4?  They’re really not considered premium spots.

This guy gets it.

Lets draft that 430lb NT from Florida.

(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4?  They’re really not considered premium spots.

They are kind of unicorns 

Hard to find - especially outside the early rounds and I'd love to see you 
tell Aaron Donald he isn't playing a "premium position"

(11-26-2023, 09:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4?  They’re really not considered premium spots.

They are kind of unicorns 

Hard to find - especially outside the early rounds and I'd love to see you 
tell Aaron Donald he isn't playing a "premium position"

So why worry about it?

Your concern is to try and find an Aaron Donald?  When our current IDL is 4th in rush defense???

Come on, my friend.

(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4? They’re really not considered premium spots.

3rd - 5th. That's if you're looking for a Fatukasi type though that eats up space and holds the line. Ideally this staff should be mixing in other players but it's limited with Hamilton out. He's the missing piece this year.

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I like this kid from Texas.

https://youtu.be/zX8MLHHnTAI?si=GfiBadsLLzD0pYY-

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Also this kid from Miami.

https://youtu.be/GpabGz39En8?si=dS2Y0AF3tAK6X7vV

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(11-26-2023, 09:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4?  They’re really not considered premium spots.

3rd - 5th. That's if you're looking for a Fatukasi type though that eats up space and holds the line. Ideally this staff should be mixing in other players but it's limited with Hamilton out. He's the missing piece this year.

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I like this kid from Texas.

https://youtu.be/zX8MLHHnTAI?si=GfiBadsLLzD0pYY-

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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Also this kid from Miami.

https://youtu.be/GpabGz39En8?si=dS2Y0AF3tAK6X7vV

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So you're looking at mostly 3rd and beyond.  So you basically the idea that IDL is an issue isn't really a thing...

Dude, our D-Line is pretty dog on solid.  What in the world, based on this game we just played, makes anyone think that we're suspect on the D-Line, specifically the "IDL"?

Yeah, we have to always draft depth and develop those we draft.  But why focus on an interior D-Lineman when we already have many of them and we have so many other needs?  We have O-Line needs, right?  I thought that was the thing that people were freaking out about.  

And now, with a D-Line that is 4th best in Run Defense, we have people calling out our D-Line???  What world are we living in?

(11-26-2023, 09:26 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 09:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]3rd - 5th. That's if you're looking for a Fatukasi type though that eats up space and holds the line. Ideally this staff should be mixing in other players but it's limited with Hamilton out. He's the missing piece this year.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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I like this kid from Texas.

https://youtu.be/zX8MLHHnTAI?si=GfiBadsLLzD0pYY-

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

---

Also this kid from Miami.

https://youtu.be/GpabGz39En8?si=dS2Y0AF3tAK6X7vV

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So you're looking at mostly 3rd and beyond.  So you basically the idea that IDL is an issue isn't really a thing...

Dude, our D-Line is pretty dog on solid.  What in the world, based on this game we just played, makes anyone think that we're suspect on the D-Line, specifically the "IDL"?

Yeah, we have to always draft depth and develop those we draft.  But why focus on an interior D-Lineman when we already have many of them and we have so many other needs?  We have O-Line needs, right?  I thought that was the thing that people were freaking out about.  

And now, with a D-Line that is 4th best in Run Defense, we have people calling out our D-Line???  What world are we living in?

Depends on what you need and value. Could have argued Kalijah Kancey and Mazi Smith for this team at one point leading into the draft.

Sweat from Texas is probably a late RD2, early RD3 prospect. Taylor out of Miami is athletic enough to play the nose, 5-tech and 3-tech.

He'll be a late RD1 to early RD2 prospect. Especially after the combine and pro days. He's a lean 305 at 6'3. Very twitchy and disruptive.

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(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4?  They’re really not considered premium spots.

In the 1st if one is at the top of our board when it's our pick.  This has been a need for many years and it still is.

(11-26-2023, 09:05 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 09:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They are kind of unicorns 

Hard to find - especially outside the early rounds and I'd love to see you 
tell Aaron Donald he isn't playing a "premium position"

So why worry about it?

Your concern is to try and find an Aaron Donald?  When our current IDL is 4th in rush defense???

Come on, my friend.

Run defense is less than half of of an interior lineman's job. The greater task is making QBs uncomfortable. 

We do not get enough pocket collapse or interior pressure vs the pass as things stand and we don't know if Hamilton and RRH are going to be enough next year. We don't even know what the heck is going on with Hamilton besides being too out of shape to play right now. 

I never said a damn thing about needing the next Aaron Donald and there is nothing wrong with wanting your line to have someone that disrupts from the A and B gaps. It's a vital piece. 

Calais Campbell was that guy on third down for us for a while with Allen and Ngakoue outside. 
In a different scheme we had Marcus stroud and Jon Henderson for a time. 

We are currently missing that component. 

RRH is a good rotational piece - but his percentage of plays disrupting from the inside is pretty low compared to the better DTs and 3-4 ends. 
Fatukasi is great eating double teams vs the run but gets pressure or pocket collapse at a very low rate vs the pass. 
Smoot is a good lunchpail guy coming off a tough injury - but not good enough to ignore the missing interior pass rush.

What happened to Davon. Thought he was supposed to be back after the bye?

Yea passing downs more idl push would be nice.

(11-26-2023, 11:39 PM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]What happened to Davon.  Thought he was supposed to be back after the bye?

Yea passing downs more idl push would be nice.

He is apparently having a hard time with conditioning/ getting back into playing shape and strength since finally getting over the infection.

Apparently davon also lost alot of weight causing some of his game shape self.

(11-26-2023, 06:01 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 05:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I know we have missed Hamilton, but this team lacks a push in the middle to compliment its outside pass rush. 

Where does an interior disruptor rank among your offseason wish list? 

https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/...73877?s=20


[url=https://twitter.com/NextGenStats][/url]

A big part of the problem is the refs never call offensive holding on passing attempts for our defense.

Is that a symptom of refs swallowing whistles, though, or is it that our guys are not beating the OL in front of them? No reason to hold if you can handle a dude without resorting to cheating.

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(11-26-2023, 08:42 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]Honest question, what round do you even draft an interior disruptor for a 3-4?  They’re really not considered premium spots.

wherever they fit.

(11-26-2023, 09:26 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-26-2023, 09:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]3rd - 5th. That's if you're looking for a Fatukasi type though that eats up space and holds the line. Ideally this staff should be mixing in other players but it's limited with Hamilton out. He's the missing piece this year.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

---

I like this kid from Texas.

https://youtu.be/zX8MLHHnTAI?si=GfiBadsLLzD0pYY-

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

---

Also this kid from Miami.

https://youtu.be/GpabGz39En8?si=dS2Y0AF3tAK6X7vV

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So you're looking at mostly 3rd and beyond.  So you basically the idea that IDL is an issue isn't really a thing...

Dude, our D-Line is pretty dog on solid.  What in the world, based on this game we just played, makes anyone think that we're suspect on the D-Line, specifically the "IDL"?

Yeah, we have to always draft depth and develop those we draft.  But why focus on an interior D-Lineman when we already have many of them and we have so many other needs?  We have O-Line needs, right?  I thought that was the thing that people were freaking out about.  

And now, with a D-Line that is 4th best in Run Defense, we have people calling out our D-Line???  What world are we living in?

Probably a look at our cap space and realizing that if you are looking for affordable replacement of present performance, Foley may be the easiest to replicate on the cheap.

Hamilton got paid, but hasn't seen the field. The depth behind him is not matching his output. We can fix that!

I'm also more concerned about pass rush and contain than I am rushing stats. It's a pass the ball and rush the passer league. Being stout against the run is fine, but few teams are relying on the run to win in today's game.

We're in a pretty good position, roster-wise. At this stage, we are fine-tuning, not wholesale overhauling. We have to spend the picks somewhere. Everyone in the thread is already saying that OL is the primary focus, but IDL help would be good, too. What would you propose otherwise? Darft yet another RB? How about an inside backer? We could always pull a Gene Smiff and grab a starting punter. That worked out, right?

Here's one of many plays from this season to serve as example of how when our outside pressure is pushed behind the pocket - the QB has space to work without the interior push:



In this play RRH and Tyler Lacy are effectively beaten in their one on one matchups while the nose gets doubled. 
We've sen several QBs able to step up to evade pressure this way all season. 

Not having a 3-4 end/DT  that will win those matchups more often is hurting our pass defense from being what it could be IMO. 

RRH is good in spurts - we don't have a healthy Hamilton right now or know what his future status might become.  Smoot might occasionally flash. 
I feel like they may want to invest here in the offseason if Hamilton doesn't come around and show something.

FWIW - even thought it is completely counter to my assertion we need help rushing the interior - Fatukasi and RRH had their best days of the season in win rates yesterday. (23% and 18% respectively) Those are good numbers.

There was a backup guard in the game - but how these guys (and Hamilton if back) play down the stretch will be big in terms of whether this area gets attention in the offseason.

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...16987?s=20

(11-27-2023, 02:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW - even thought it is completely counter to my assertion we need help rushing the interior - Fatukasi and RRH had their best days of the season in win rates yesterday. (23% and 18% respectively) Those are good numbers.

There was a backup guard in the game - but how these guys (and Hamilton if back) play down the stretch will be big in terms of whether this area gets attention in the offseason.

I don't think any of our linemen are the true Nose that we need. Fatukasi is more 43 DT playing at the 295 or so he is now and the other two are more prototypical 34 ends. If you're committed to a 34 then your 3 linemen should be a combined 975 pounds with a boulder of a man in the middle. Remember when the ravens had The Goose and Ted Washington out there? That's how you play that 34 the right way. Our guys just aren't that big and it shows when the double team flows both Foley and RRH right out of the middle play after play.

(11-27-2023, 02:32 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-27-2023, 02:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW - even thought it is completely counter to my assertion we need help rushing the interior - Fatukasi and RRH had their best days of the season in win rates yesterday. (23% and 18% respectively) Those are good numbers.

There was a backup guard in the game - but how these guys (and Hamilton if back) play down the stretch will be big in terms of whether this area gets attention in the offseason.

I don't think any of our linemen are the true Nose that we need. Fatukasi is more 43 DT playing at the 295 or so he is now and the other two are more prototypical 34 ends. If you're committed to a 34 then your 3 linemen should be a combined 975 pounds with a boulder of a man in the middle. Remember when the ravens had The Goose and Ted Washington out there? That's how you play that 34 the right way. Our guys just aren't that big and it shows when the double team flows both Foley and RRH right out of the middle play after play.

We need a Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork type to anchor the middle. Just don't see very many guys like that anymore. Like NYC said, unicorns. We could maybe try and get a guy in the draft like that but it's too early for all of that right now projection wise. 

That kid Sweat from Texas though is good with leverage, and whipping double teams. We need that for sure. He has the right size. He's pushing over 350 pounds easily. If I could only have one of those guys in this draft? He would be the pick. 

Guys like Williams out of OSU and Stackhouse out of Georgia will get more attention because they play for the bigger programs but Sweat just seems more active and disruptive every time I see him in a game.

(11-27-2023, 02:37 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-27-2023, 02:32 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think any of our linemen are the true Nose that we need. Fatukasi is more 43 DT playing at the 295 or so he is now and the other two are more prototypical 34 ends. If you're committed to a 34 then your 3 linemen should be a combined 975 pounds with a boulder of a man in the middle. Remember when the ravens had The Goose and Ted Washington out there? That's how you play that 34 the right way. Our guys just aren't that big and it shows when the double team flows both Foley and RRH right out of the middle play after play.

We need a Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork type to anchor the middle. Just don't see very many guys like that anymore. Like NYC said, unicorns. We could maybe try and get a guy in the draft like that but it's too early for all of that right now projection wise. 

That kid Sweat from Texas though is good with leverage, and whipping double teams. We need that for sure. He has the right size. He's pushing over 350 pounds easily. If I could only have one of those guys in this draft? He would be the pick. 

Guys like Williams out of OSU and Stackhouse out of Georgia will get more attention because they play for the bigger programs but Sweat just seems more active and disruptive every time I see him in a game.

That's exactly right. Put a roadblock out there right over the Center and watch how good the pass rush gets when he's got nowhere to step up to.