Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Priority 1,2,and 3 this upcoming offseason.

Adding to this I do worry the offensive philosophy isn't catered to big physical lineman. But even if they can't find true maulers, still need to find guys who can move people.

DL situation will be key in the offseason too.

Hamilton was extended (rightly so in my opinion) but after his injury his play has been abysmal. IF the issue is stricly physical we can expect him to be back to his normal self next season...again if there aren't other issues we don't know of.

Fatukasi was restructured and Roy Robertson Harris was extended after a good 5 games stretch last year. The thing is Fatukasi is almost never fully healthy and he isn't a difference maker, RRH hasn't been playing to a really high level either.

Both these guys have big dead money cap hits if cut pre June (around 9-10M each), around 4M each if cut post june.

The amount of money allocated on IDL isn't matching at all with the play we are getting from these guys.

To give context we are likely going to cut Darious Williams who has almost no dead cap hit (creating another hole) and have to keep at least one of these guys.

Not an easy situation.

(12-11-2023, 07:13 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]DL situation will be key in the offseason too.

Hamilton was extended (rightly so in my opinion) but after his injury his play has been abysmal. IF the issue is stricly physical we can expect him to be back to his normal self next season...again if there aren't other issues we don't know of.

Fatukasi was restructured and Roy Robertson Harris was extended after a good 5 games stretch last year. The thing is Fatukasi is almost never fully healthy and he isn't a difference maker, RRH hasn't been playing to a really high level either.

Both these guys have big dead money cap hits if cut pre June (around 9-10M each), around 4M each if cut post june.

The amount of money allocated on IDL isn't matching at all with the play we are getting from these guys.

To give context we are likely going to cut Darious Williams who has almost no dead cap hit (creating another hole) and have to keep at least one of these guys.

Not an easy situation.

Your cuts (replacement) for next season:

Sherff (Tugboat) saves $16.5 million
Robinson (Little) saves $16.6 million
Williams (Brown) saves $10 million
Jenkins (Johnson) saves $9 million
Fatukasi (Lacy) saves $8 million

There's plenty of money sitting in guys we can replace fairly easily in the offseason. I just wish we'd spent draft capital on big guys already since they take a year to really develop; we're behind in the timeline for this and it's showing in how weak our backups are right now.

(12-11-2023, 07:13 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]DL situation will be key in the offseason too.

Hamilton was extended (rightly so in my opinion) but after his injury his play has been abysmal. IF the issue is stricly physical we can expect him to be back to his normal self next season...again if there aren't other issues we don't know of.

Fatukasi was restructured and Roy Robertson Harris was extended after a good 5 games stretch last year. The thing is Fatukasi is almost never fully healthy and he isn't a difference maker, RRH hasn't been playing to a really high level either.

Both these guys have big dead money cap hits if cut pre June (around 9-10M each), around 4M each if cut post june.

The amount of money allocated on IDL isn't matching at all with the play we are getting from these guys.

To give context we are likely going to cut Darious Williams who has almost no dead cap hit (creating another hole) and have to keep at least one of these guys.

Not an easy situation.

Last year they had a pretty good thing happening down the stretch with Fatukasi playing the NT or DT over center on obvious run sets and Hamilton going in there on pass sets. (not the only way they were used, but it was a big part of their deployment)

That said - Fatukasi has been a real positive component to the run defense when it has worked well. You see him in there gumming up lanes and eating blocks from two linemen pretty often on the better run stops we make. 
Fast forward to now and it isn't working well. Looking at injury reports and snap counts over the last month and Foley has been getting fewer snaps and nursing two separate injuries. (heel and ankle) 

Hamilton's issues are more mysterious - not just because we haven't been given in depth detail of the infection/illness, but because we also don't have a prognosis of recovery.  
i.e. getting back to proper playing weight, strength and endurance. Is he ever going to be 330 pounds and forcefully moving guards and centers back into the pocket?  Hard to say at this point. 

I said all that to say:

Where these two players are medically and athletically in the Spring may decide their fate with the team. 
They are both valuable, but not if they aren't nearer to 100% ability than they are now. 

If the team does decide to invest capital in the interior DL and they need to trim down the current roster, Fatukasi's contract does have an out clause and they could release him with 9 million in dead cap money. It would save them 10 million long term on his deal (20 mil guaranteed - 30 mil potential pay out) but that only saves 3 million against the 2024 cap - if I'm reading spotrac's site correctly. 
If someone can clarify that, please chime in. 

I'd prefer they get these guys healthy and utilize them, personally. But it is something this staff will need to carefully evaluate and decide on. 

Right now - they carry 7 IDL players and 4 OLB players on the roster. So adding a legit disruptor to the mix at IDL will not be too difficult in the numbers game positionally. You have guys like Gotsis, Leadbetter, and Blackson there that can be upgraded by a superior player. (all good hustlers, but all upgradable) That is if they retain RRH, Fatukasi and Hamilton - and I believe they will. Lacy is cheap and should def be retained and developed. 


TL;DR

I hope they can get D-Ham and Foley back to full strength and keep them while adding an interior disruptor to the mix. Not a ton of $$ benefit if they move on from either of those guys.

(12-11-2023, 09:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 07:13 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]DL situation will be key in the offseason too.

Hamilton was extended (rightly so in my opinion) but after his injury his play has been abysmal. IF the issue is stricly physical we can expect him to be back to his normal self next season...again if there aren't other issues we don't know of.

Fatukasi was restructured and Roy Robertson Harris was extended after a good 5 games stretch last year. The thing is Fatukasi is almost never fully healthy and he isn't a difference maker, RRH hasn't been playing to a really high level either.

Both these guys have big dead money cap hits if cut pre June (around 9-10M each), around 4M each if cut post june.

The amount of money allocated on IDL isn't matching at all with the play we are getting from these guys.

To give context we are likely going to cut Darious Williams who has almost no dead cap hit (creating another hole) and have to keep at least one of these guys.

Not an easy situation.

Your cuts (replacement) for next season:

Sherff (Tugboat) saves $16.5 million
Robinson (Little) saves $16.6 million
Williams (Brown) saves $10 million
Jenkins (Johnson) saves $9 million
Fatukasi (Lacy) saves $8 million

There's plenty of money sitting in guys we can replace fairly easily in the offseason. I just wish we'd spent draft capital on big guys already since they take a year to really develop; we're behind in the timeline for this and it's showing in how weak our backups are right now.

Brown and Johnson in the secondary are probably the only two players I have faith in as replacements next year. Hodges is an unknown and already off to a rough start with the injury. Lacy has done nothing. Little is a concern for me personally. He's also not holding up physically. 

I don't think I want Baalke back here next year unless he has a new Director to report to that can overrule his decision making in some cases because he really has set this team back now with some really stupid draft decisions that have caught up to the team this year. 

The decisions to take Muma, Connor, Strange, Bigsby & Miller are aggravating. The fact that he had a stupid amount of draft picks back in April and we've really only seen some impact out of it early is also a concern. Harrison at RT has been decent, not stellar, but, decent. Johnson has flashed a few times here and there. Outside of that? Not good. Washington recently. So, 3 out of what? 14? Big WHIFF there as a scouting team and decision maker.

(12-11-2023, 10:17 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 09:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Your cuts (replacement) for next season:

Sherff (Tugboat) saves $16.5 million
Robinson (Little) saves $16.6 million
Williams (Brown) saves $10 million
Jenkins (Johnson) saves $9 million
Fatukasi (Lacy) saves $8 million

There's plenty of money sitting in guys we can replace fairly easily in the offseason. I just wish we'd spent draft capital on big guys already since they take a year to really develop; we're behind in the timeline for this and it's showing in how weak our backups are right now.

Brown and Johnson in the secondary are probably the only two players I have faith in as replacements next year. Hodges is an unknown and already off to a rough start with the injury. Lacy has done nothing. Little is a concern for me personally. He's also not holding up physically. 

I don't think I want Baalke back here next year unless he has a new Director to report to that can overrule his decision making in some cases because he really has set this team back now with some really stupid draft decisions that have caught up to the team this year. 

The decisions to take Muma, Connor, Strange, Bigsby & Miller are aggravating. The fact that he had a stupid amount of draft picks back in April and we've really only seen some impact out of it early is also a concern. Harrison at RT has been decent, not stellar, but, decent. Johnson has flashed a few times here and there. Outside of that? Not good. Washington recently. So, 3 out of what? 14? Big WHIFF there as a scouting team and decision maker.

I don't want Baalke here. I also won't judge this year's rookie class on the first 4 months of their rookie season.

(12-11-2023, 12:03 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 10:17 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Brown and Johnson in the secondary are probably the only two players I have faith in as replacements next year. Hodges is an unknown and already off to a rough start with the injury. Lacy has done nothing. Little is a concern for me personally. He's also not holding up physically. 

I don't think I want Baalke back here next year unless he has a new Director to report to that can overrule his decision making in some cases because he really has set this team back now with some really stupid draft decisions that have caught up to the team this year. 

The decisions to take Muma, Connor, Strange, Bigsby & Miller are aggravating. The fact that he had a stupid amount of draft picks back in April and we've really only seen some impact out of it early is also a concern. Harrison at RT has been decent, not stellar, but, decent. Johnson has flashed a few times here and there. Outside of that? Not good. Washington recently. So, 3 out of what? 14? Big WHIFF there as a scouting team and decision maker.

I don't want Baalke here. I also won't judge this year's rookie class on the first 4 months of their rookie season.

I will. Especially the earlier selections. Strange and Bigsby were over drafted and they came off as luxury picks, not quality picks that we needed. Everything that we're [BLEEP] about right now? 

Maybe a better decision made in RD2 and RD3 results in this team having a win or two more at this point in time because the interior is woefully incompetent on both sides and we probably could have and should have found starters in those rounds that are better than what we have now.

I miss Uche Nwarneri.

He pointed out how bad the O-Line was last year.  Yet, last year we were so much more explosive, even with an O-Line corps that was suspect.

It's just frustrating watching an Offense with similar talent look so inept from the prior year.

(12-11-2023, 04:44 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I miss Uche Nwarneri.

He pointed out how bad the O-Line was last year.  Yet, last year we were so much more explosive, even with an O-Line corps that was suspect.

It's just frustrating watching an Offense with similar talent look so inept from the prior year.

2022 - 294 points through first 13 games
2023 - 312 points through first 13 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. Relatively same team with same issues from last year with tougher schedule.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

(12-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 04:44 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I miss Uche Nwarneri.

He pointed out how bad the O-Line was last year.  Yet, last year we were so much more explosive, even with an O-Line corps that was suspect.

It's just frustrating watching an Offense with similar talent look so inept from the prior year.

2022 - 244 points through first 12 games
2023 - 312 points through first 12 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. 68 points spread out over 13 games is a +5 point difference per game. That's kind of a big deal man...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Don't worry, it's him and not you.

(12-11-2023, 05:03 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]2022 - 244 points through first 12 games
2023 - 312 points through first 12 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. 68 points spread out over 13 games is a +5 point difference per game. That's kind of a big deal man...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Don't worry, it's him and not you.

Had to adjust a little bit. Missed a game or two. Still ahead from last year as cited above. With a tougher schedule this year Vs. last year with the same exact, if not, WORSE offensive line now to contest with.

The offense would probably have even more points in some of the earlier games if they had needed to score more points but the defense was actually playing a lot better earlier this year so it wasn't needed.

This team is only one win away from already tying last year's overall record as well, which they should be able to achieve, even if they drop to 8 - 6 with a Raven's loss this upcoming Sunday. They should muster wins over the Buccaneers, Panthers and tacks. If not? Then we can revisit this straw man argument he's developed.

But, I doubt they lose out so it'll be a moot point.

(12-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 04:44 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I miss Uche Nwarneri.

He pointed out how bad the O-Line was last year.  Yet, last year we were so much more explosive, even with an O-Line corps that was suspect.

It's just frustrating watching an Offense with similar talent look so inept from the prior year.

2022 - 244 points through first 12 games
2023 - 312 points through first 12 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. 68 points spread out over 13 games is a +5 point difference per game. That's kind of a big deal man...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So last year we had less points, but with a better O-Line (This is what certain people have been telling me.  That our O-Line last year was better, and that's why this year our offense is so terrible).

And this year with a "terrible" O-Line we have more points?  (And this is with the fact that we have a bad O-Line, which is the consensus of very popular posters here)

And yet we are still at the same position we were last year, fighting for our playoff lives...

I'm not sure what your point is...

(12-11-2023, 05:07 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]2022 - 244 points through first 12 games
2023 - 312 points through first 12 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. 68 points spread out over 13 games is a +5 point difference per game. That's kind of a big deal man...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So last year we had less points, but with a better O-Line (This is what certain people have been telling me.  That our O-Line last year was better, and that's why this year our offense is so terrible).

And this year with a "terrible" O-Line we have more points?  (And this is with the fact that we have a bad O-Line, which is the consensus of very popular posters here)

And yet we are still at the same position we were last year, fighting for our playoff lives...

I'm not sure what your point is...

Not even close to the same as last year. Pump the brakes.

(12-11-2023, 05:07 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]2022 - 244 points through first 12 games
2023 - 312 points through first 12 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. 68 points spread out over 13 games is a +5 point difference per game. That's kind of a big deal man...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So last year we had less points, but with a better O-Line (This is what certain people have been telling me.  That our O-Line last year was better, and that's why this year our offense is so terrible).

And this year with a "terrible" O-Line we have more points?  (And this is with the fact that we have a bad O-Line, which is the consensus of very popular posters here)

And yet we are still at the same position we were last year, fighting for our playoff lives...

I'm not sure what your point is...

My point is that it's obvious Press Taylor hooked up with your Mom, Wife and/or Sister. Go back and read what I adjusted. 

Defense this year has been better at times, therefore, offensively we didn't need to score as much. 
Last year, defense was worse, offense had to do a little bit more to win games. 

Tougher schedule this year Vs. last year. Offensive line is somehow worse than it was last year, just a fact at this point, it [BLEEP] sucks. We're not fighting for our play-off lives, by the way, we finished 9 - 8 last year. 

There's four games left and they're just one game shy from tying it from last year. Point is, when you get down with these next four games? The odds that this offense is better than it was last year is extremely high. This is, again, against better opponents on the schedule overall, with a banged up Lawrence, no Kirk now, missing Zay Jones for a solid month or more and no help outside of an occasional run by Lawrence in the running game.

Our run blocking has stalled out, badly. Compared to last year? Etienne will be lucky to get his numbers he had last year with four games left. That's with him already tying his rushing attempts from last year. With four games left. He's at 219 on the year Vs. 220 last year. His average dropped from 5.1 to 3.7. He did have James Robinson with a few good games in September of last year as well which ate into his opportunities.

(12-11-2023, 05:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 05:07 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]So last year we had less points, but with a better O-Line (This is what certain people have been telling me.  That our O-Line last year was better, and that's why this year our offense is so terrible).

And this year with a "terrible" O-Line we have more points?  (And this is with the fact that we have a bad O-Line, which is the consensus of very popular posters here)

And yet we are still at the same position we were last year, fighting for our playoff lives...

I'm not sure what your point is...

My point is that it's obvious Press Taylor hooked up with your Mom, Wife and/or Sister. 

It was all 3.  And that's why I'm as critical as I am.  And I'm justified!!!  

With that said, I just realized this is the wrong thread to have this discussion.  So you have my concession.


Edit: Just to clarify, many dudes, Uche especially was calling out how bad our O-Line was last year. It wasn't as though our O-Line was so money last year.

I still don't get how you guys forget how inconsistent our O-Line was in 2022... Trevor almost broke a knee last year right around this same time against Detroit... It's beyond me how some of you guys are so rosey about last year's O-Line...

(12-11-2023, 04:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 12:03 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want Baalke here. I also won't judge this year's rookie class on the first 4 months of their rookie season.

I will. Especially the earlier selections. Strange and Bigsby were over drafted and they came off as luxury picks, not quality picks that we needed. Everything that we're [BLEEP] about right now? 

Maybe a better decision made in RD2 and RD3 results in this team having a win or two more at this point in time because the interior is woefully incompetent on both sides and we probably could have and should have found starters in those rounds that are better than what we have now.

You have to hold up the specific guys that were available and should have been taken to call any pick a luxury in my opinion.  Position alone doesn't cut it, for instance, if they had all offensive and defensive linemen that were left on the board graded outside of the 2nd or 3rd rounds.  I've heard Torrance's name bandied about, so there's 1 potential miss either by scouting or by draft day strategy.  Let's hear the others.

The draft isn't always about filling immediate needs.  That's what free agency is for.  You have to take into account future needs (i.e. keeping an eye on whose contracts are expiring next year and beyond) in the draft as well on top of having the specific player graded somewhere in the vicinity of the top of your board.

(12-11-2023, 05:07 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 05:00 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]2022 - 244 points through first 12 games
2023 - 312 points through first 12 games

Relatively same amount of turnovers on offense and redzone blunders as last year as well.

Just not seeing what you're seeing I guess. 68 points spread out over 13 games is a +5 point difference per game. That's kind of a big deal man...

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

So last year we had less points, but with a better O-Line (This is what certain people have been telling me.  That our O-Line last year was better, and that's why this year our offense is so terrible).

And this year with a "terrible" O-Line we have more points?  (And this is with the fact that we have a bad O-Line, which is the consensus of very popular posters here)

And yet we are still at the same position we were last year, fighting for our playoff lives...

I'm not sure what your point is...

The point is now that Press Taylor is calling the plays we're scoring more points with less talent. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

(12-11-2023, 05:26 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 04:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I will. Especially the earlier selections. Strange and Bigsby were over drafted and they came off as luxury picks, not quality picks that we needed. Everything that we're [BLEEP] about right now? 

Maybe a better decision made in RD2 and RD3 results in this team having a win or two more at this point in time because the interior is woefully incompetent on both sides and we probably could have and should have found starters in those rounds that are better than what we have now.

You have to hold up the specific guys that were available and should have been taken to call any pick a luxury in my opinion.  Position alone doesn't cut it, for instance, if they had all offensive and defensive linemen that were left on the board graded outside of the 2nd or 3rd rounds.  I've heard Torrance's name bandied about, so there's 1 potential miss either by scouting or by draft day strategy.  Let's hear the others.

The draft isn't always about filling immediate needs.  That's what free agency is for.  You have to take into account future needs in the draft as well on top of having the specific player graded somewhere in the vicinity of the top of your board.

Torrance was already gone when they took Strange, they would've had to move up to take him. I would have been ok with that actually.

(12-11-2023, 05:26 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 04:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I will. Especially the earlier selections. Strange and Bigsby were over drafted and they came off as luxury picks, not quality picks that we needed. Everything that we're [BLEEP] about right now? 

Maybe a better decision made in RD2 and RD3 results in this team having a win or two more at this point in time because the interior is woefully incompetent on both sides and we probably could have and should have found starters in those rounds that are better than what we have now.

You have to hold up the specific guys that were available and should have been taken to call any pick a luxury in my opinion.  Position alone doesn't cut it, for instance, if they had all offensive and defensive linemen that were left on the board graded outside of the 2nd or 3rd rounds.  I've heard Torrance's name bandied about, so there's 1 potential miss either by scouting or by draft day strategy.  Let's hear the others.

The draft isn't always about filling immediate needs.  That's what free agency is for.  You have to take into account future needs (i.e. keeping an eye on whose contracts are expiring next year and beyond) in the draft as well on top of having the specific player graded somewhere in the vicinity of the top of your board.

Robinson is a cut candidate at LT.
Bartch/Little/Shatley at LG. Gross.
Fortner was not good as a rookie at C.
Scherff is long in the tooth at RG.
Harrison drafted at RT to replace Taylor.

Engram was tagged and extended. Farrell was on the roster already.

Etienne still has a year or two on rookie deal. Hasty was extended. Johnson was signed.

Going TE and RB in RD2 and RD3 made no sense then like it makes no sense now and the lack of production speaks volumes on a team that had a bad line last year and managed to one up itself again this year.

Trading for Cleveland and trying for Hunter before the deadline along with that kid from New England are admissions of failure by Baalke.

That's how I ultimately view it. Sat on 13 picks. Should have tried trading up more and got more aggressive to fill holes and areas of need. We'll never know now and it'll naturally be a wait and see game now with Strange and Bigsby, but, again, those choices reeked of luxury / reach.

We blew it.


Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

(12-11-2023, 06:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-11-2023, 05:26 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]You have to hold up the specific guys that were available and should have been taken to call any pick a luxury in my opinion.  Position alone doesn't cut it, for instance, if they had all offensive and defensive linemen that were left on the board graded outside of the 2nd or 3rd rounds.  I've heard Torrance's name bandied about, so there's 1 potential miss either by scouting or by draft day strategy.  Let's hear the others.

The draft isn't always about filling immediate needs.  That's what free agency is for.  You have to take into account future needs (i.e. keeping an eye on whose contracts are expiring next year and beyond) in the draft as well on top of having the specific player graded somewhere in the vicinity of the top of your board.

Robinson is a cut candidate at LT.
Bartch/Little/Shatley at LG. Gross.
Fortner was not good as a rookie at C.
Scherff is long in the tooth at RG.
Harrison drafted at RT to replace Taylor.

Engram was tagged and extended. Farrell was on the roster already.

Etienne still has a year or two on rookie deal. Hasty was extended. Johnson was signed.

Going TE and RB in RD2 and RD3 made no sense then like it makes no sense now and the lack of production speaks volumes on a team that had a bad line last year and managed to one up itself again this year.

Trading for Cleveland and trying for Hunter before the deadline along with that kid from New England are admissions of failure by Baalke.

That's how I ultimately view it. Sat on 13 picks. Should have tried trading up more and got more aggressive to fill holes and areas of need. We'll never know now and it'll naturally be a wait and see game now with Strange and Bigsby, but, again, those choices reeked of luxury / reach.

We blew it.


Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Quality replacements still have to be there in the draft when you're up.  If I've hupothetically got all the O & D linemen graded in the low 70's and I have a TE and an RB in the upper 70's early 80's.  I'd go with the clear higher grades and revisit the lines later in the draft which is apparently what they did.  We'll never know if anyone we coveted got sniped a pick or two before we selected.  That's going to happen.  It may not happen every year, but it's going to happen a bunch over the course of several years even to the most prepared GMs.  I guess, bottom line is, don't get too emotionally invested in a take where you have a handful of pieces (of info) to the 1000 piece puzzle that is the draft.  Give the class some time and review and grade a couple years down the road.