I think we need to resign Cam.
He was suspended the first four games this year and we went 2-2.
He comes back we go 6-1. The only loss was the 49ers.
He gets injured in the last win against the tinhorns in that run.
We proceed to lose 4 in a row with the oline looking horrendous.
He comes back and we win again.
Coincidence? Idk you tell me. 7-1 with him in the lineup. You could tell he cares with the emotion he showed when he got injured against the tinhorns.
I think most on here might have been a little too quick to write him off. Fun fact in 2022 he led all OTs in pass blocking on play action passes.
My gut says he should be resigned.
He's not a free agent, he's under contract next year.
He's average.
He's expensive.
He's one test away from a year suspension.
Time to move on and use that $17 million we save next year on line upgrades.
Well if he plays well into the play offs, he would be some great trade potential at least. I do agree though. He’s a good player, and he doesn’t get the respect he deserves many times. Who can the jags replace him with that will be an upgrade is what you have to consider.
At this point I'm either trading him to a needy team for a late first early second, or he;'s staying.
(01-01-2024, 08:54 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]At this point I'm either trading him to a needy team for a late first early second, or he;'s staying.
I'd trade him for a 3rd day pick to offload the salary and I seriously doubt any team would give up more than a 4 for him. He's basically Ezra Cleveland with a longer contract and you saw what the Vikes got for him.
(01-01-2024, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 08:54 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]At this point I'm either trading him to a needy team for a late first early second, or he;'s staying.
I'd trade him for a 3rd day pick to offload the salary and I seriously doubt any team would give up more than a 4 for him. He's basically Ezra Cleveland with a longer contract and you saw what the Vikes got for him.
I was right there with you prior to seeing the difference he makes when hes out there this season... I think we are giving him too little credit for what he can do.
(01-01-2024, 09:05 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I'd trade him for a 3rd day pick to offload the salary and I seriously doubt any team would give up more than a 4 for him. He's basically Ezra Cleveland with a longer contract and you saw what the Vikes got for him.
I was right there with you prior to seeing the difference he makes when hes out there this season... I think we are giving him too little credit for what he can do.
He's the best player on a bad line by a slim margin. It's not his play that bothers me, it's his cost and risk. There's better players out there who are less risky IMO; I think Baalke can find them if he focuses on it.
(01-01-2024, 09:18 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:05 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I was right there with you prior to seeing the difference he makes when hes out there this season... I think we are giving him too little credit for what he can do.
He's the best player on a bad line by a slim margin. It's not his play that bothers me, it's his cost and risk. There's better players out there who are less risky IMO; I think Baalke can find them if he focuses on it.
I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
(01-01-2024, 09:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:18 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He's the best player on a bad line by a slim margin. It's not his play that bothers me, it's his cost and risk. There's better players out there who are less risky IMO; I think Baalke can find them if he focuses on it.
I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
I agree with all that and besides, we can restructure his contract to alleviate the cap hit.
(01-01-2024, 09:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:18 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He's the best player on a bad line by a slim margin. It's not his play that bothers me, it's his cost and risk. There's better players out there who are less risky IMO; I think Baalke can find them if he focuses on it.
I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
Devil you know and all that...I understand. I just was done with him when he got the 4 game, I wish we'd taken that opportunity to fix this problem last offseason when we could've recouped the contract, but we kicked it down the road and made it worse.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
I agree with all that and besides, we can restructure his contract to alleviate the cap hit.
That won't help when he gets suspended again.
(01-01-2024, 08:37 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He's not a free agent, he's under contract next year.
He's average.
He's expensive.
He's one test away from a year suspension.
Time to move on and use that $17 million we save next year on line upgrades.
If he gets suspended, the team gets to keep his salary. So there's no financial risk to the team from him getting suspended.
And even if he is, as you allege, only average, as bad as this line is, there's no way we cut him and have a better offensive line next year. That would be too many positions that needed to be filled. Besides, I don't think we would get even an average left tackle in free agency for less than what we pay Cam. Look at what Jawaan Taylor got in free agency last year.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
Devil you know and all that...I understand. I just was done with him when he got the 4 game, I wish we'd taken that opportunity to fix this problem last offseason when we could've recouped the contract, but we kicked it down the road and made it worse.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all that and besides, we can restructure his contract to alleviate the cap hit.
That won't help when he gets suspended again.
I think a better approach would be to keep Cam and Anton at tackle for now, build the interior of the line in the draft/Fa and potentially look for a T in the middle rounds or perhaps free agency and if we hit on a guy, offload cam in a trade during next season or keep him until the end of next season, and then draft his replacement in that draft.
He was never going anywhere.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
Devil you know and all that...I understand. I just was done with him when he got the 4 game, I wish we'd taken that opportunity to fix this problem last offseason when we could've recouped the contract, but we kicked it down the road and made it worse.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all that and besides, we can restructure his contract to alleviate the cap hit.
That won't help when he gets suspended again.
If he gets suspended, there would be no cap hit at all. His entire cap hit would disappear.
(01-01-2024, 09:27 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 08:37 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He's not a free agent, he's under contract next year.
He's average.
He's expensive.
He's one test away from a year suspension.
Time to move on and use that $17 million we save next year on line upgrades.
If he gets suspended, the team gets to keep his salary. So there's no financial risk to the team from him getting suspended.
And even if he is, as you allege, only average, as bad as this line is, there's no way we cut him and have a better offensive line next year. That would be too many positions that needed to be filled. Besides, I don't think we would get even an average left tackle in free agency for less than what we pay Cam. Look at what Jawaan Taylor got in free agency last year.
The line isn't that bad, we have a terrible center and need to figure out left guard (Cleveland, Tugboat, FA), both of which can be fixed in free agency for a reasonable price. We need to draft another tackle to swing behind Little and Harrison and who can replace Little if they decide to let him walk for 2025. I wanted to cut Scherff, but he's our best lineman. Find a replacement and move on or draft a guy to replace him in 2025. There, all fixed. The idea that we can't just replace 4 linemen nexxt year is silly too, it can and should be done if it's what's best for the team going forward.
Me personally?
I'd roll with Little and Harrison at tackle. Resign Cleveland and keep Scherff 1 more year at Guard. Sign Connor Williams from Miami in Free Agency, since he's coming off an ACL this should give Baalke the leg tingle he gets around those guys. Draft the best tackle and guard I can find in rounds 1 and 2, carry Tugboat and Fortner as bench/depth/develpment.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:19 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree his contract is pretty bad, but at the same time do we really want to go into the offseason needing 2-3 new interior OL and a new tackle?.. I mean call me crazy but considering the injuries Lawrence has taken this year maybe being risky with it isn't worth it.
Devil you know and all that...I understand. I just was done with him when he got the 4 game, I wish we'd taken that opportunity to fix this problem last offseason when we could've recouped the contract, but we kicked it down the road and made it worse.
(01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all that and besides, we can restructure his contract to alleviate the cap hit.
That won't help when he gets suspended again.
I don’t think he will get suspended again. He would really get himself blackballed, and he appears to be too smart for that. It’s very difficult to find good line men as we all are witnessing. At least, we have some good tackles as things stand. Next we need to grab a couple of guards and a center and hopefully one of those will hit.
(01-01-2024, 09:28 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Devil you know and all that...I understand. I just was done with him when he got the 4 game, I wish we'd taken that opportunity to fix this problem last offseason when we could've recouped the contract, but we kicked it down the road and made it worse.
That won't help when he gets suspended again.
I think a better approach would be to keep Cam and Anton at tackle for now, build the interior of the line in the draft/Fa and potentially look for a T in the middle rounds or perhaps free agency and if we hit on a guy, offload cam in a trade during next season or keep him until the end of next season, and then draft his replacement in that draft.
I agree. Good players cost money. Left tackle is a position worth investing in. I think the record when cam starts versus not, and the lack of run game when he’s out, speaks for itself.
I would draft center or guard first round if there is a top player available.
(01-01-2024, 09:57 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:24 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Devil you know and all that...I understand. I just was done with him when he got the 4 game, I wish we'd taken that opportunity to fix this problem last offseason when we could've recouped the contract, but we kicked it down the road and made it worse.
That won't help when he gets suspended again.
I don’t think he will get suspended again. He would really get himself blackballed, and he appears to be too smart for that. It’s very difficult to find good line men as we all are witnessing. At least, we have some good tackles as things stand. Next we need to grab a couple of guards and a center and hopefully one of those will hit.
In 7 years he's been arrested for drugs and stolen firearms and been popped for PEDS twice. I'd say he's not nearly as smart as you want to believe. He's also injury-prone which is why I think he used the PEDs and he's not getting sturdier as he ages.
(01-01-2024, 10:16 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 09:57 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think he will get suspended again. He would really get himself blackballed, and he appears to be too smart for that. It’s very difficult to find good line men as we all are witnessing. At least, we have some good tackles as things stand. Next we need to grab a couple of guards and a center and hopefully one of those will hit.
In 7 years he's been arrested for drugs and stolen firearms and been popped for PEDS twice. I'd say he's not nearly as smart as you want to believe. He's also injury-prone which is why I think he used the PEDs and he's not getting sturdier as he ages.
I just can't see getting rid of our starting LT when we have greater needs at center and left guard. Not to mention our other needs. I don't want to create an additional hole in the roster when we have plenty already.
(01-01-2024, 10:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2024, 10:16 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In 7 years he's been arrested for drugs and stolen firearms and been popped for PEDS twice. I'd say he's not nearly as smart as you want to believe. He's also injury-prone which is why I think he used the PEDs and he's not getting sturdier as he ages.
I just can't see getting rid of our starting LT when we have greater needs at center and left guard. Not to mention our other needs. I don't want to create an additional hole in the roster when we have plenty already.
We have no other needs more important that fixing the offensive line. If they do nothing else but that this offseason we will be fine. I understand the anxiety about moving on, but it's time.