(03-23-2024, 12:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2024, 12:18 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]I would expect they are Jaguars fans and want their team to win. Not a great analogy though.
Obviously I'm trying to get you to say they were Trump supporters who wanted Trump to remain in office. Why don't you agree with that?
I have neither agreed nor disagreed with that assessment, your question was about Jaguars fans. Don't blame me for your own rambling narrative.
I'm sure some of them were ardent Trump supporters who were focused on him remaining in office.
I also suspect for many it was more about justice, as there was substantial evidence to suggest multiple instances of tampering had occurred and the Democrat's only response was denial. They never expressed concern for the integrity of the voting process, thereby adding to the credibility to Trump's claim of a "stolen" election. Had they invited an immediate joint review/inspection in suspect states/counties, they could have diffused, rather than exacerbated the controversy.
I believe the majority of those who entered the Capitol arrived with no preplanned agenda and just got caught up in the moment. To go back to your football analogy, this was the political Superbowl, and they wanted to be part of it. A peaceful rally with a speech led to a march, which became a protest, then suddenly some pushed their way into the building and others simply followed.
(03-23-2024, 05:29 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2024, 05:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, but let's focus on the ones who shoved riot police. If you try to push cops around, wherever you are, you're probably pretty invested in what's going on. Not a spectator anymore, right?
Glad you've decided to talk about the CIA plants, ANTIFAites, and Feds.
Thank you for answering question #2. Unfortunately your answer will cause you to get the next two questions wrong. Don't worry, there was no grade, at least not in this life. You are dismissed.
(03-23-2024, 06:06 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2024, 12:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously I'm trying to get you to say they were Trump supporters who wanted Trump to remain in office. Why don't you agree with that?
I have neither agreed nor disagreed with that assessment, your question was about Jaguars fans. Don't blame me for your own rambling narrative.
I'm sure some of them were ardent Trump supporters who were focused on him remaining in office.
I also suspect for many it was more about justice, as there was substantial evidence to suggest multiple instances of tampering had occurred and (1) the Democrat's only response was denial. They never expressed concern for the integrity of the voting process, thereby adding to the credibility to Trump's claim of a "stolen" election. (2) Had they invited an immediate joint review/inspection in suspect states/counties, they could have diffused, rather than exacerbated the controversy.
I believe the majority of those who entered the Capitol arrived with no preplanned agenda and just got caught up in the moment. To go back to your football analogy, this was the political Superbowl, and they wanted to be part of it. A peaceful rally with a speech led to a march, which became a protest, then suddenly some pushed their way into the building and others simply followed.
1) Now you're doing exactly what you accused me of doing. Lumping different people together. I thought that was bad?
2) in Georgia and in Arizona there were in fact thorough reviews -by elected Republicans.
I get it now.. Mikesez is Alice and he's currently falling into the void of the rabbit hole leading to Wonderland.
Seems like you need a tin foil hat, dude.. You sound like one of those conspiracy theorists that you despise.
(03-23-2024, 07:01 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]I get it now.. Mikesez is Alice and he's currently falling into the void of the rabbit hole leading to Wonderland.
Seems like you need a tin foil hat, dude.. You sound like one of those conspiracy theorists that you despise.
Which part sounds like a conspiracy theory to you?
You think the guys beating cops with Trump flags didn't want Trump to remain in office?
(03-24-2024, 08:57 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-23-2024, 07:01 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]I get it now.. Mikesez is Alice and he's currently falling into the void of the rabbit hole leading to Wonderland.
Seems like you need a tin foil hat, dude.. You sound like one of those conspiracy theorists that you despise.
Which part sounds like a conspiracy theory to you?
You think the guys beating cops with Trump flags didn't want Trump to remain in office?
The part where you attribute to an entire group the actions of a small, small minority, then try to gaslight the rest of America into believing that group was there to try to overthrow the government with one gun.
(03-24-2024, 11:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2024, 08:57 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Which part sounds like a conspiracy theory to you?
You think the guys beating cops with Trump flags didn't want Trump to remain in office?
The part where you attribute to an entire group the actions of a small, small minority, then try to gaslight the rest of America into believing that group was there to try to overthrow the government with one gun.
Neither of those things matter either way. Doesn't matter how many guns they had. Egypt had two successful insurrections in the 2010s and none of the civilians had any guns at all. Doesn't matter if most of the people were just onlookers. There were plenty of brawlers and plenty of chanters. Ignore the onlookers and we still have a problem, right?
Is there a provision in Article 2 of the constitution or in Title 3 of the US Code to allow for a delay of the proceedings?
(03-25-2024, 07:33 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2024, 11:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The part where you attribute to an entire group the actions of a small, small minority, then try to gaslight the rest of America into believing that group was there to try to overthrow the government with one gun.
Neither of those things matter either way. Doesn't matter how many guns they had. Egypt had two successful insurrections in the 2010s and none of the civilians had any guns at all. Doesn't matter if most of the people were just onlookers. There were plenty of brawlers and plenty of chanters. Ignore the onlookers and we still have a problem, right?
Is there a provision in Article 2 of the constitution or in Title 3 of the US Code to allow for a delay of the proceedings?
Actually, it does matter. We're not Egypt. It also circles back to the hysteria the media and some of the folks on the left tried to generate out of this.
You would have thought it was a real Bloodbath. Much of the claims were exaggerated and it was a fart in the wind compared to other riots and protests that had occured leading up to that point.
Democracy went on.
Presidency went on.
Our lives went on.
Nothing really changed in the grand scheme of things. The fact that we're an armed nation with a Government and Law Enforcement that typically has an itchy trigger finger?
We made out good. I would like to see the roles reversed though. Just for [BLEEP] and giggles.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
(03-25-2024, 08:21 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 07:33 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Neither of those things matter either way. Doesn't matter how many guns they had. Egypt had two successful insurrections in the 2010s and none of the civilians had any guns at all. Doesn't matter if most of the people were just onlookers. There were plenty of brawlers and plenty of chanters. Ignore the onlookers and we still have a problem, right?
Is there a provision in Article 2 of the constitution or in Title 3 of the US Code to allow for a delay of the proceedings?
Actually, it does matter. We're not Egypt. It also circles back to the hysteria the media and some of the folks on the left tried to generate out of this.
You would have thought it was a real Bloodbath. Much of the claims were exaggerated and it was a fart in the wind compared to other riots and protests that had occured leading up to that point.
Democracy went on.
Presidency went on.
Our lives went on.
Nothing really changed in the grand scheme of things. The fact that we're an armed nation with a Government and Law Enforcement that typically has an itchy trigger finger?
We made out good. I would like to see the roles reversed though. Just for [BLEEP] and giggles.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Ok let's compare. Over 100 police officers were injured on Jan 6. One died. How many police officers were injured in Seattle during the previous summer?
(03-25-2024, 08:33 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 08:21 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, it does matter. We're not Egypt. It also circles back to the hysteria the media and some of the folks on the left tried to generate out of this.
You would have thought it was a real Bloodbath. Much of the claims were exaggerated and it was a fart in the wind compared to other riots and protests that had occured leading up to that point.
Democracy went on.
Presidency went on.
Our lives went on.
Nothing really changed in the grand scheme of things. The fact that we're an armed nation with a Government and Law Enforcement that typically has an itchy trigger finger?
We made out good. I would like to see the roles reversed though. Just for [BLEEP] and giggles.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Ok let's compare. Over 100 police officers were injured on Jan 6. One died. How many police officers were injured in Seattle during the previous summer?
Did that police officer die as a result of his injuries?
(03-25-2024, 08:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 08:33 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Ok let's compare. Over 100 police officers were injured on Jan 6. One died. How many police officers were injured in Seattle during the previous summer?
Did that police officer die as a result of his injuries?
Let's say he didn't. Does that excuse the fact that over 100 were injured?
How many were injured in Seattle?
(03-25-2024, 08:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 08:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Did that police officer die as a result of his injuries?
Let's say he didn't. Does that excuse the fact that over 100 were injured?
How many were injured in Seattle?
Are these John Kerry injuries or real ones?
I'm not counting a bruise or a splinter they got while getting their fat incompetent [BLEEP] out of the way.
(03-25-2024, 08:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 08:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Did that police officer die as a result of his injuries?
Let's say he didn't. Does that excuse the fact that over 100 were injured?
How many were injured in Seattle?
No, it doesn't, and the number injured in Seattle is irrelevant. The fact that you present the officer's death, which was not attributable to his injuries, as an argument, however, illustrates your bias. You're consumed by hatred of Trump and incapable of looking at the evidence objectively.
(03-25-2024, 09:30 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 08:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Let's say he didn't. Does that excuse the fact that over 100 were injured?
How many were injured in Seattle?
Are these John Kerry injuries or real ones?
I'm not counting a bruise or a splinter they got while getting their fat incompetent [BLEEP] out of the way.
Let's agree that John Kerry exaggerated each of the injuries he got purple hearts for.
Let's agree that most soldiers at the time would have said "NBD" to the type of injury Kerry got.
Do you mean to suggest that every single member of the DC metro police and Capitol police forces take the John Kerry approach to injury reporting?
If so, do you mean to imply that this makes it OK to push and shove cops and pepper spray them?
Does the Seattle police force have this apparent "John Kerry syndrome"?
(03-25-2024, 09:32 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 08:54 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Let's say he didn't. Does that excuse the fact that over 100 were injured?
How many were injured in Seattle?
No, it doesn't, and the number injured in Seattle is irrelevant. The fact that you present the officer's death, which was not attributable to his injuries, as an argument, however, illustrates your bias. You're consumed by hatred of Trump and incapable of looking at the evidence objectively.
This isn't about me. This is about January 6. Stop making it about me. If you want a thread that's about me start a new thread.
Trump supporters want to dodge the fact that some other Trump supporters had a riot, fought with the police, and invaded the US Capitol in an attempt to stop the Congress from certifying the election. And it was all because Mr. Trump had convinced them that the certification could actually be stopped.
(03-25-2024, 10:06 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trump supporters want to dodge the fact that some other Trump supporters had a riot, fought with the police, and invaded the US Capitol in an attempt to stop the Congress from certifying the election. And it was all because Mr. Trump had convinced them that the certification could actually be stopped.
Dodge?
They were stupid as [BLEEP] and they deserve like a couple months in jail.
But that's not an insurrection
(03-25-2024, 10:14 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (03-25-2024, 10:06 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Trump supporters want to dodge the fact that some other Trump supporters had a riot, fought with the police, and invaded the US Capitol in an attempt to stop the Congress from certifying the election. And it was all because Mr. Trump had convinced them that the certification could actually be stopped.
Dodge?
They were stupid as [BLEEP] and they deserve like a couple months in jail.
But that's not an insurrection
It was a riot with the intent of overturning an election. I don't care what people call it. Insurrection is defined as "a violent uprising against authority or government." So maybe it was a small insurrection. But I agree with you, what they did was very stupid.
Most Trump supporters can agree with the facts. What we are objecting to is the intentional framing of the situation as in insurrection that extends to the larger movement that supports Trump. It was intentionally framed that way specifically to curtail the MAGA movement, which is not an insurrectionist group.
Look at the charges, Marty. Of the thousands CONVICTED, I think 8 have been convicted for seditious conspiracy or related charges: 4 Oath Keepers and 4 Proud Boys (one who wasn't even there). 17 others were convicted of assault, 20 more if you count impeding or obstructing an officer. 2 were gun related charges (one who had a firearm on him when arrested, and one who was convicted with hearsay evidence from his son), with 5 more using a deadly weapon like a fire extinguisher or barricade. Another 20 or so for violent entry and destruction of government property. That sounds worse than it is, since many of these people committed multiple crimes.
In TOTAL 28 people were accused of violence against another person of some sort. That number jumps to 39 if you include acts of vandalism, like forcible entry, destruction of property, or broad sedition charges. The vast, vast majority of these cases are trespassing. Noone has been tried for insurrection.
It's estimated that over 1,000 people entered the Capitol building that day. 39 of them did something violent. The rest passed through and did nothing worth mentioning, yet there have been 750 convictions, with another 350 yet to be sentenced. They are trying to convict EVERY person who entered the building that day. Extending this narrative to the MAGA movement as a whole is fringe conspiracy. It's peddled by the establishment, and a corrupt, leftist media complex that has a vested interest in denouncing any opposition to the establishment.
This is not even to speak of the federal agents and informants embedded in this group that were obviously NOT charged. It's not a conspiracy. It's undeniable. We have transcripts of court proceedings. They were there. It's optics, man... and a few of the most zealous Trump supporters got carried away or tricked into committing a crime. Sure. Convict them. After that, the rest is a civil protest by people who believe the election was fraudulent. It's their right to protest.
Your eyes saw some violence that day. The stories were largely exaggerated, the media cherry-picked and repeatedly showed you the same clips of violence over and over. The establishment embellished the stories of violence and Trump's role in it, including known lies like a police officer dying as a result of their injuries and Trump grabbing the wheel of his vehicle. These are lies. Agents were embedded in the crowd. These are facts.
A person with most common sense would take those two conflicting narratives alone and realize there is more to this story than was presented in the media. It doesn't have to be a fully fleshed out position, but it should be enought to give you pause about taking any sort of hardliner stance.
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