Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Sure right now. Look back at their previous 5-10 draft classes and let me know which ones were amazing outside of mostly their first or possibly second round picks.

I will give the Chiefs 2020 draft was really good. The rest are just par for the course.

(04-28-2024, 12:07 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Double dipping at DT when you already have a plethora of talent at that position while ignoring IOL the entire draft is really somethin….

Its kinda like double dipping at LB when you already have talent there….

Plethora of talent? Lol.   Interior dline was just as bad as need as interior oline was.  You are always stuck on position.  If the player is worth it take him especially on the dline, hopefully they are. Double dipping on the dline is not close to double dipping on LB.  If half of our picks were WRs you would be stoked about it.

The key to being good in the NFL. Have a good QB and don't bomb your first round picks. All the rest is just get lucky every now and then.

(04-28-2024, 07:17 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Its just a different version of Gene Smith's "smartest guy in the room" philosophy.  Trying to find better talent where others overlook whether it be smaller school guys, players coming off injuries, etc...  If it works out you're a genius but if it doesn't you're a fool.  At some point it'd be nice to find a guy who just drafts players that were really good college players that played against good competition and who fit the philosophy of the team we are trying to build.

That’s pretty much my take on it. Guys who are too in love with their own intellect need to step back. I try to do that in my life. (Don’t always succeed.) Even if I thought I was smarter than everyone else in the room, it would be dumb to assume that if everyone else doesn’t see it my way, I’m the one who’s right and they’re wrong.

How is that Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Philly, and now Chargers, seem to get it consistently right?  Our next GM needs to be poached from one of them.


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Bro.   Pittsburgh just missed on a qb.

I challenge anyone to just go to profootballreference and just look through the picks made in previous years. Very few are special. Most of those teams just did a much better job of keeping their guys. Our draftees did fairly fine, a lot of multi year starters just several for not the Jaguars.

The franchise is a mess because instead of paying Ramsey we traded him for Chaisson and Etienne I believe and replaced him with cj Henderson.

Those are the mistakes.

---

A lot of teams like the Eagles seem to have their draft boards follow the posted draft boards (consensus) so every year they get annointed as these great drafters. But look back at their drafts 3-4 years later and there isn't much difference between them and almost all others. Especially if you just look at good teams.

@HardCoreMoJagFan

2019
2             Mecole Hardman           56          WR       
2             Juan Thornhill   63          S            
3             Khalen Saunders            84          DT         
6             Rashad Fenton 201        CB         
6             Darwin Thompson         214        RB         
7             Nick Allegretti   216        G           
2020
Round 2, pick 31 (No. 63 overall): Willie Gay Jr, LB, Mississippi State
Round 3, pick 32 (No. 96 overall): Lucas Niang, OT, TCU
Round 4, pick 32 (No. 138 overall): L’Jarius Sneed, S, Louisiana Tech
Round 5, pick 31 (No. 177 overall): Mike Danna, DE, Michigan
Round 7, pick 23 (No. 237 overall): Thakarius Keyes, CB, Tulane

2021
Round 2, Pick No. 58: Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri
Round 2, Pick No. 63: Creed Humphrey, C, Oklahoma
Round 4, Pick No. 144: Joshua Kaindoh, EDGE, Florida State
Round 5, Pick No. 162: Noah Gray, TE, Duke
Round 5, Pick No. 181: Cornell Powell, WR, Clemson
Round 6, Pick No. 226: Trey Smith, G, Tennessee

2022
Round 1, Pick No. 21: Trent McDuffie, CB, Washington
Round 1, Pick No. 30: George Karlaftis, DE, Purdue
Round 2, Pick No. 54: Skyy Moore, WR, Western Michigan
Round 2, Pick No. 62: Bryan Cook, S, Cincinnati
Round 3, Pick No. 103: Leo Chanel, LB, Wisconsin
Round 4, Pick No. 135: Joshua Williams, CB, Fayetteville State
Round 5, Pick No. 145: Darian Kinnard, G, Kentucky
Round 7, Pick No. 243: Jaylen Watson, CB, Washington State
Round 7, Pick No. 251: Isiah Pacheco, RB, Rutgers
Round 7, Pick No. 259: Nazeeh Johnson, CB, Marshall

2023
Round 1, Pick 31
Felix Anudike-Uzomah, DE | Kansas State
Round 2, Pick 55 (From DET via MIN)
Rashee Rice, WR | SMU
Round 3, Pick 92 (From CIN)
Wanya Morris, OT | Oklahoma
Round 4, Pick 119
Chamarri Conner, CB | Virginia Tech
Round 5, Pick 166
BJ Thompson, EDGE | Stephen F. Austin
Round 6, Pick 194 (From DET)
Keondre Coburn, DT | Texas
Round 7, Pick 250*
Nic Jones, CB | Ball State

Brett Veach consistently finds quality players at position of need every year.  I'd take him all day and twice on Sunday.

---

(04-28-2024, 07:54 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]I challenge anyone to just go to profootballreference and just look through the picks made in previous years. Very few are special. Most of those teams just did a much better job of keeping their guys. Our draftees did fairly fine, a lot of multi year starters just several for not the Jaguars.

The franchise is a mess because instead of paying Ramsey we traded him for Chaisson and Etienne I believe and replaced him with cj Henderson.

Those are the mistakes.

---

A lot of teams like the Eagles seem to have their draft boards follow the posted draft boards (consensus) so every year they get annointed as these great drafters. But look back at their drafts 3-4 years later and there isn't much difference between them and almost all others. Especially if you just look at good teams.

See the bolded.

I’d take ETN over Ramsey all day, every day. We didn’t win anything with or because of that head case.


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(04-28-2024, 08:20 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 07:54 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]I challenge anyone to just go to profootballreference and just look through the picks made in previous years.  Very few are special.  Most of those teams just did a much better job of keeping their guys.  Our draftees did fairly fine, a lot of multi year starters just several for not the Jaguars.

The franchise is a mess because instead of paying Ramsey we traded him for Chaisson and Etienne I believe and replaced him with cj Henderson.

Those are the mistakes.

---

A lot of teams like the Eagles seem to have their draft boards follow the posted draft boards (consensus) so every year they get annointed as these great drafters.  But look back at their drafts 3-4 years later and there isn't much difference between them and almost all others.  Especially if you just look at good teams.

See the bolded.

I’d take ETN over Ramsey all day, every day. We didn’t win anything with or because of that head case.


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Ramsey literally had the game winning INT against the Bills in the 2017 playoffs lololol.

(04-28-2024, 08:31 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:20 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]See the bolded.

I’d take ETN over Ramsey all day, every day. We didn’t win anything with or because of that head case.


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Ramsey literally had the game winning INT against the Bills in the 2017 playoffs lololol.

Did we win any AFC Champiionships or Super Bowls?  Nope. Hate that dude. Glad he's gone.  Look forward every year to seeing highlights of him getting burnt and blaming everyone else on the team.

(04-28-2024, 06:47 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 06:06 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Just listened to PFF draft recap. (These guys are not the be all, end all. But they’re usually not wildly off, either).  They described the Jags draft as the typical Baalke draft: ultimate boom or bust. I’d say that’s fairly accurate. If we hit on all or most, it’s a great draft. If not, then what the heck were you thinking.

For what it’s worth, they said Titans draft was worse.


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Its just a different version of Gene Smith's "smartest guy in the room" philosophy.  Trying to find better talent where others overlook whether it be smaller school guys, players coming off injuries, etc...  If it works out you're a genius but if it doesn't you're a fool.  At some point it'd be nice to find a guy who just drafts players that were really good college players that played against good competition and who fit the philosophy of the team we are trying to build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD0O-Yc9094

(04-28-2024, 08:37 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:31 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Ramsey literally had the game winning INT against the Bills in the 2017 playoffs lololol.

Did we win any AFC Champiionships or Super Bowls?  Nope. Hate that dude. Glad he's gone.  Look forward every year to seeing highlights of him getting burnt and blaming everyone else on the team.

If we don't get ref'd in 2017, yes we do win an AFC Championship and likely the Super Bowl as well. Myles Jack still isn't down btw.

Whether you like him or not, he's an Elite player in this league and makes whatever team he's on better.

(04-28-2024, 08:54 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:37 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Did we win any AFC Champiionships or Super Bowls?  Nope. Hate that dude. Glad he's gone.  Look forward every year to seeing highlights of him getting burnt and blaming everyone else on the team.

If we don't get ref'd in 2017, yes we do win an AFC Championship and likely the Super Bowl as well. Myles Jack still isn't down btw.

Whether you like him or not, he's an Elite player in this league and makes whatever team he's on better.

True statement. He was treated badly here by management.  He knew his worth and didn't have to put up with it. I don't condone his method, but understand the why.

(04-28-2024, 07:51 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 07:17 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]That’s pretty much my take on it. Guys who are too in love with their own intellect need to step back. I try to do that in my life. (Don’t always succeed.) Even if I thought I was smarter than everyone else in the room, it would be dumb to assume that if everyone else doesn’t see it my way, I’m the one who’s right and they’re wrong.

How is that Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Philly, and now Chargers, seem to get it consistently right?  Our next GM needs to be poached from one of them.


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Bro.   Pittsburgh just missed on a qb.

Draft is all about probabilities. You won't hit on every pick. It's impossible. But not all draft strategies are equal. Over time some teams, such as the steelers, for example, are better than others. And it bears out in their record. Only one losing season since the turn of the century. 

The absolute first criteria, especially for early picks, should be were you a really good college football player. Were you rated highly based on your performance on the field and not because you tested well. If you weren't a really good college player that's just one more variable and unknown you have to speculate about.

Our first rounder was a good college football player. Our second wasn't. Maybe the injury set him back who knows but he wasn't that good. Our third was solid but the testing shot him up draft boards. Maybe the tape didn't tell the story. Maybe his flaws, such as bad tackling, can be fixed. But again it's all about the probabilities. Any of these guys could end up a hall of famer but what are the odds.

(04-28-2024, 08:54 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:37 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Did we win any AFC Champiionships or Super Bowls?  Nope. Hate that dude. Glad he's gone.  Look forward every year to seeing highlights of him getting burnt and blaming everyone else on the team.

If we don't get ref'd in 2017, yes we do win an AFC Championship and likely the Super Bowl as well. Myles Jack still isn't down btw.

Whether you like him or not, he's an Elite player in this league and makes whatever team he's on better.

According to PFF, Ramsey was the 57th ranked CB in the NFL last year. According to ESPN, he had 3 INTs and 5 passes defended.  He's always been overrated.

By comparison, Darious Williams was 13th ranked.  4 INTs and 19 passes defended.

Having good corners is important.  Having "elite" ones is not.

(04-28-2024, 08:20 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]@HardCoreMoJagFan

2019
2             Mecole Hardman           56          WR       
2             Juan Thornhill   63          S            
3             Khalen Saunders            84          DT         
6             Rashad Fenton 201        CB         
6             Darwin Thompson         214        RB         
7             Nick Allegretti   216        G           
2020
Round 2, pick 31 (No. 63 overall): Willie Gay Jr, LB, Mississippi State
Round 3, pick 32 (No. 96 overall): Lucas Niang, OT, TCU
Round 4, pick 32 (No. 138 overall): L’Jarius Sneed, S, Louisiana Tech
Round 5, pick 31 (No. 177 overall): Mike Danna, DE, Michigan
Round 7, pick 23 (No. 237 overall): Thakarius Keyes, CB, Tulane

2021
Round 2, Pick No. 58: Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri
Round 2, Pick No. 63: Creed Humphrey, C, Oklahoma
Round 4, Pick No. 144: Joshua Kaindoh, EDGE, Florida State
Round 5, Pick No. 162: Noah Gray, TE, Duke
Round 5, Pick No. 181: Cornell Powell, WR, Clemson
Round 6, Pick No. 226: Trey Smith, G, Tennessee

2022
Round 1, Pick No. 21: Trent McDuffie, CB, Washington
Round 1, Pick No. 30: George Karlaftis, DE, Purdue
Round 2, Pick No. 54: Skyy Moore, WR, Western Michigan
Round 2, Pick No. 62: Bryan Cook, S, Cincinnati
Round 3, Pick No. 103: Leo Chanel, LB, Wisconsin
Round 4, Pick No. 135: Joshua Williams, CB, Fayetteville State
Round 5, Pick No. 145: Darian Kinnard, G, Kentucky
Round 7, Pick No. 243: Jaylen Watson, CB, Washington State
Round 7, Pick No. 251: Isiah Pacheco, RB, Rutgers
Round 7, Pick No. 259: Nazeeh Johnson, CB, Marshall

2023
Round 1, Pick 31
Felix Anudike-Uzomah, DE | Kansas State
Round 2, Pick 55 (From DET via MIN)
Rashee Rice, WR | SMU
Round 3, Pick 92 (From CIN)
Wanya Morris, OT | Oklahoma
Round 4, Pick 119
Chamarri Conner, CB | Virginia Tech
Round 5, Pick 166
BJ Thompson, EDGE | Stephen F. Austin
Round 6, Pick 194 (From DET)
Keondre Coburn, DT | Texas
Round 7, Pick 250*
Nic Jones, CB | Ball State

Brett Veach consistently finds quality players at position of need every year.  I'd take him all day and twice on Sunday.

1

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(04-28-2024, 07:54 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]I challenge anyone to just go to profootballreference and just look through the picks made in previous years.  Very few are special.  Most of those teams just did a much better job of keeping their guys.  Our draftees did fairly fine, a lot of multi year starters just several for not the Jaguars.

The franchise is a mess because instead of paying Ramsey we traded him for Chaisson and Etienne I believe and replaced him with cj Henderson.

Those are the mistakes.

---

A lot of teams like the Eagles seem to have their draft boards follow the posted draft boards (consensus) so every year they get annointed as these great drafters.  But look back at their drafts 3-4 years later and there isn't much difference between them and almost all others.  Especially if you just look at good teams.

See the bolded.

I’d take ETN over Ramsey all day, every day. We didn’t win anything with or because of that head case.


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You listed that but outside of 2020 there isn't a whole ton of special on there outside the first picks in most drafts.  Again he isn't missing in the first round, which is the goal, but neither is Baalke.

---

The other game Id like to play is which teams past three drafts would you straight up trade for our last three? That's not counting this year because we know nothing on this year.

21, 22, 23 tell me which teams draft over those three years you'd straight up trade. I'm sure there are some im just curious which.

(04-28-2024, 09:23 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:20 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]@HardCoreMoJagFan

2019
2             Mecole Hardman           56          WR       
2             Juan Thornhill   63          S            
3             Khalen Saunders            84          DT         
6             Rashad Fenton 201        CB         
6             Darwin Thompson         214        RB         
7             Nick Allegretti   216        G           
2020
Round 2, pick 31 (No. 63 overall): Willie Gay Jr, LB, Mississippi State
Round 3, pick 32 (No. 96 overall): Lucas Niang, OT, TCU
Round 4, pick 32 (No. 138 overall): L’Jarius Sneed, S, Louisiana Tech
Round 5, pick 31 (No. 177 overall): Mike Danna, DE, Michigan
Round 7, pick 23 (No. 237 overall): Thakarius Keyes, CB, Tulane

2021
Round 2, Pick No. 58: Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri
Round 2, Pick No. 63: Creed Humphrey, C, Oklahoma
Round 4, Pick No. 144: Joshua Kaindoh, EDGE, Florida State
Round 5, Pick No. 162: Noah Gray, TE, Duke
Round 5, Pick No. 181: Cornell Powell, WR, Clemson
Round 6, Pick No. 226: Trey Smith, G, Tennessee

2022
Round 1, Pick No. 21: Trent McDuffie, CB, Washington
Round 1, Pick No. 30: George Karlaftis, DE, Purdue
Round 2, Pick No. 54: Skyy Moore, WR, Western Michigan
Round 2, Pick No. 62: Bryan Cook, S, Cincinnati
Round 3, Pick No. 103: Leo Chanel, LB, Wisconsin
Round 4, Pick No. 135: Joshua Williams, CB, Fayetteville State
Round 5, Pick No. 145: Darian Kinnard, G, Kentucky
Round 7, Pick No. 243: Jaylen Watson, CB, Washington State
Round 7, Pick No. 251: Isiah Pacheco, RB, Rutgers
Round 7, Pick No. 259: Nazeeh Johnson, CB, Marshall

2023
Round 1, Pick 31
Felix Anudike-Uzomah, DE | Kansas State
Round 2, Pick 55 (From DET via MIN)
Rashee Rice, WR | SMU
Round 3, Pick 92 (From CIN)
Wanya Morris, OT | Oklahoma
Round 4, Pick 119
Chamarri Conner, CB | Virginia Tech
Round 5, Pick 166
BJ Thompson, EDGE | Stephen F. Austin
Round 6, Pick 194 (From DET)
Keondre Coburn, DT | Texas
Round 7, Pick 250*
Nic Jones, CB | Ball State

Brett Veach consistently finds quality players at position of need every year.  I'd take him all day and twice on Sunday.

1

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See the bolded.

I’d take ETN over Ramsey all day, every day. We didn’t win anything with or because of that head case.


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You listed that but outside of 2020 there isn't a whole ton of special on there outside the first picks in most drafts.  Again he isn't missing in the first round, which is the goal, but neither is Baalke.

---

The other game Id like to play is which teams past three drafts would you straight up trade for our last three?  That's not counting this year because we know nothing on this year.

21, 22, 23 tell me which teams draft over those three years you'd straight up trade.  I'm sure there are some im just curious which.

L'Jarius Sneed, round 4
Nick Alleghretti, round 7
Noah Gray, round 5
Isaiah Pacheco, round 7
Rashee Rice, round 2
Creed Humphrey, round 2
Nick Bolton, round 2
Mecole Hardman, round 2

All either solid contributors or starters.

(04-28-2024, 09:20 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 08:54 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't get ref'd in 2017, yes we do win an AFC Championship and likely the Super Bowl as well. Myles Jack still isn't down btw.

Whether you like him or not, he's an Elite player in this league and makes whatever team he's on better.

According to PFF, Ramsey was the 57th ranked CB in the NFL last year. According to ESPN, he had 3 INTs and 5 passes defended.  He's always been overrated.

By comparison, Darious Williams was 13th ranked.  4 INTs and 19 passes defended.

Having good corners is important.  Having "elite" ones is not.

Ramsey missed the first 7 or 8 games last year due to knee surgery... But what I said is fact. When he is on the field, he makes whatever team he's on better. I like Williams, but he aint Ramsey and it isn't close. But I know your really dumb hate for a football player will stay clouding your judgement.
https://twitter.com/elitetakes_/status/1...6939222136
https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/...0358040014

(04-28-2024, 09:10 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 07:51 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Bro.   Pittsburgh just missed on a qb.

Draft is all about probabilities. You won't hit on every pick. It's impossible. But not all draft strategies are equal. Over time some teams, such as the steelers, for example, are better than others. And it bears out in their record. Only one losing season since the turn of the century. 

The absolute first criteria, especially for early picks, should be were you a really good college football player. Were you rated highly based on your performance on the field and not because you tested well. If you weren't a really good college player that's just one more variable and unknown you have to speculate about.

Our first rounder was a good college football player. Our second wasn't. Maybe the injury set him back who knows but he wasn't that good. Our third was solid but the testing shot him up draft boards. Maybe the tape didn't tell the story. Maybe his flaws, such as bad tackling, can be fixed. But again it's all about the probabilities. Any of these guys could end up a hall of famer but what are the odds.

Jarrion Jones was the 9th rated cb in college football with a 75 run defense score.  

Maason smith was an elite Hs prospect had a really good freshman year and then tore his acl.  Not to mention, his DC Is on the staff.  The characterization that he wasn't that good us specious.   

I already mentioned Devon Foster.  Top ten pff tackle with an 85 rb score, that probably projects as your starting RT next year.

(04-28-2024, 09:33 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 09:23 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]You listed that but outside of 2020 there isn't a whole ton of special on there outside the first picks in most drafts.  Again he isn't missing in the first round, which is the goal, but neither is Baalke.

---

The other game Id like to play is which teams past three drafts would you straight up trade for our last three?  That's not counting this year because we know nothing on this year.

21, 22, 23 tell me which teams draft over those three years you'd straight up trade.  I'm sure there are some im just curious which.

L'Jarius Sneed, round 4
Nick Alleghretti, round 7
Noah Gray, round 5
Isaiah Pacheco, round 7
Rashee Rice, round 2
Creed Humphrey, round 2
Nick Bolton, round 2
Mecole Hardman, round 2

All either solid contributors or starters.

You listed 5 seasons and pulled up 8 solid contributes or starters.


Anton Harrison
Antonio Johnson
Travon Walker
Devin Lloyd
Trevor Lawrence
Travis Etienne
Tyson Campbell
Andre Cisco
Luke Fortner
Luke Farrell 
Montaric Brown 

That's 11 in 3 seasons.

(04-28-2024, 09:48 PM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-28-2024, 09:33 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]L'Jarius Sneed, round 4
Nick Alleghretti, round 7
Noah Gray, round 5
Isaiah Pacheco, round 7
Rashee Rice, round 2
Creed Humphrey, round 2
Nick Bolton, round 2
Mecole Hardman, round 2

All either solid contributors or starters.

You listed 5 seasons and pulled up 8 solid contributes or starters.


Anton Harrison
Antonio Johnson
Travon Walker
Devin Lloyd
Trevor Lawrence
Travis Etienne
Tyson Campbell
Andre Cisco
Luke Fortner
Luke Farrell 
Montaric Brown 

That's 11 in 3 seasons.

You had to stretch that with Fortner, Farrell, and Brown.


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Also, I’ve stated elsewhere in the threads that our first six selections all look to be good players. I just didn’t like them being taken rather than the OL help we desperately need. If UFDA signing Jones from Oregon pans out, I’ll take feel a lot better about the draft.


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You put Noah gray in there. And there is no argument Fortner is a contributed. Dude started for three years.