(08-02-2024, 09:09 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2024, 08:48 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Even the 8-3 stretch the offense never really got in a rythm and there were a number of complaints and concerns. I hope the offense is much better than it was last year in the first 11 games because it wasnt very good or consistent.
After that 49ers game, Trevor and the offense was starting to heat up. He had 9 tds and only 1 turnover(wasn't even his fault. It was the pass interference they didnt get called against Engram) through nearly 3 games before the ankle injury derailed it all.
2 games in a row isn't enough consistency for me, was looking good in the Bengals game but got injured.
(08-02-2024, 10:40 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2024, 09:09 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]After that 49ers game, Trevor and the offense was starting to heat up. He had 9 tds and only 1 turnover(wasn't even his fault. It was the pass interference they didnt get called against Engram) through nearly 3 games before the ankle injury derailed it all.
2 games in a row isn't enough consistency for me, was looking good in the Bengals game but got injured.
He played the majority of that Bengals game, which is why I said nearly 3 games. He got hurt towards the end of that game. He was going on a tear and then the injury happened.
The Defense took a complete [BLEEP] (the Defense was already in free fall honestly.. Let a dude in his 2nd ever career start slice you up and down the field like he was a hall of famer.. LOLOL) and it was game over because Trevor wasn't able to carry this team anymore at that point. Plain and simple.
(08-02-2024, 09:08 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2024, 08:58 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Right. So, who gets blamed for that though? Felt like there was some finger pointing earlier on this year when the season ended. Baalke stated that players need to be coached up, etc.
If they fall short again like they did last year, and, they stay relatively healthy? Who is getting canned this time? Baalke? Press? Both?
The guy who picks the players blames the coaches when they're no good? Whut???
We know Doug's offense works.
We know Baalke's drafting mostly doesn't.
(08-02-2024, 08:04 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2024, 08:42 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this. Between the concussion and throwing shoulder injury he could have used another week off. It's hard to do [BLEEP] effectively though when you can't move the ball on the ground and pick-up chump change to keep a drive going. To keep a defense honest, etc.
I hope this is resolved this year. The whole subject with Press though, it's hit or miss for me. I know it'll rile up some folks on here, but, if this offense starts to stall or sputter here and there and they get on a losing streak like they did last year?
Doug's going to need to takeover the reign's full time in my opinion. Especially now with all of the money that's been tossed around this off season and the extensions that have been made. He was able to throw Mike Caldwell to the wolves after the season ended. He might have to do it again this year with Press...
Hopefully we dont have to see the offense sputter to get the change and Doug is the play caller week 1. Doug's play calling is one of the things that make him a great coach.
I do wonder if we give Doug too much of a free pass on these aspects.
Yes Doug won a SB in 2018, but that 6 seasons ago. Offense styles, schemes, and play calls change quickly in the league and often become less successful in a few years. Even after the finishing stretch with Jags and Trevor in 2022. Teams adjusted and took away the intermediate passing game. Sure the WR injuries and bad OL play made it close to impossible to overcome that, but I've heard a number of film people say the Jags offense, especially the running game, has been predictable under Doug & Press. The league is too good to just do the same stuff you did last week much less last month or last year unless you just have All Pro's at multiple positions, which the Jags do not have on offense.
Not saying he will be "the problem" if this season fails, it really depends on how that happens to know if it will affect DP's job.
(08-03-2024, 04:09 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2024, 10:40 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]2 games in a row isn't enough consistency for me, was looking good in the Bengals game but got injured.
He played the majority of that Bengals game, which is why I said nearly 3 games. He got hurt towards the end of that game. He was going on a tear and then the injury happened.
The Defense took a complete [BLEEP] (the Defense was already in free fall honestly.. Let a dude in his 2nd ever career start slice you up and down the field like he was a hall of famer.. LOLOL) and it was game over because Trevor wasn't able to carry this team anymore at that point. Plain and simple.
Agreed on the defense, they fell apart as well the 2nd half of the season. We need that group to be more consistent as well. Need better from both sides. The biggest issue from the offense was the run game. At times we couldnt get a yard if our life depended on it. 25% of the time we didnt even get a yard or some crazy stat like that. It was historically bad in that aspect and that usually starts with the center so im just glad we upgraded there. When the run game is that bad no need for the safeties to cheat up, LBs etc. its a ripple affect and makes it much harder for the passing game when the oppossing defense doesnt have to worry about the run.
(08-02-2024, 10:40 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2024, 09:09 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]After that 49ers game, Trevor and the offense was starting to heat up. He had 9 tds and only 1 turnover(wasn't even his fault. It was the pass interference they didnt get called against Engram) through nearly 3 games before the ankle injury derailed it all.
2 games in a row isn't enough consistency for me, was looking good in the Bengals game but got injured.
That's right, we DEMAND FULL CONSISTENCY!!!!!!!!
(08-03-2024, 07:17 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2024, 09:08 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The guy who picks the players blames the coaches when they're no good? Whut???
We know Doug's offense works.
We know Baalke's drafting mostly doesn't.
(08-02-2024, 08:04 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Hopefully we dont have to see the offense sputter to get the change and Doug is the play caller week 1. Doug's play calling is one of the things that make him a great coach.
I do wonder if we give Doug too much of a free pass on these aspects.
Yes Doug won a SB in 2018, but that 6 seasons ago. Offense styles, schemes, and play calls change quickly in the league and often become less successful in a few years. Even after the finishing stretch with Jags and Trevor in 2022. Teams adjusted and took away the intermediate passing game. Sure the WR injuries and bad OL play made it close to impossible to overcome that, but I've heard a number of film people say the Jags offense, especially the running game, has been predictable under Doug & Press. The league is too good to just do the same stuff you did last week much less last month or last year unless you just have All Pro's at multiple positions, which the Jags do not have on offense.
Not saying he will be "the problem" if this season fails, it really depends on how that happens to know if it will affect DP's job.
Doug runs the Reid offense which is a variant of the Holmgren offense which is a variant of the Walsh offense; they are all forms of the West Coast offense that's a staple of the NFL. The schemes haven't changed in almost 50 years, they just get run by either good players or bad players.
(08-03-2024, 11:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2024, 10:40 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]2 games in a row isn't enough consistency for me, was looking good in the Bengals game but got injured.
That's right, we DEMAND FULL CONSISTENCY!!!!!!!!
Absolutely, but a 4 or 5 game stretch would be nice
(08-03-2024, 12:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2024, 07:17 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I do wonder if we give Doug too much of a free pass on these aspects.
Yes Doug won a SB in 2018, but that 6 seasons ago. Offense styles, schemes, and play calls change quickly in the league and often become less successful in a few years. Even after the finishing stretch with Jags and Trevor in 2022. Teams adjusted and took away the intermediate passing game. Sure the WR injuries and bad OL play made it close to impossible to overcome that, but I've heard a number of film people say the Jags offense, especially the running game, has been predictable under Doug & Press. The league is too good to just do the same stuff you did last week much less last month or last year unless you just have All Pro's at multiple positions, which the Jags do not have on offense.
Not saying he will be "the problem" if this season fails, it really depends on how that happens to know if it will affect DP's job.
Doug runs the Reid offense which is a variant of the Holmgren offense which is a variant of the Walsh offense; they are all forms of the West Coast offense that's a staple of the NFL. The schemes haven't changed in almost 50 years, they just get run by either good players or bad players.
I disagree with this to some extent. A good example is how the Shanahan offense has started to take over the league. First it was just Denver, then it spread to Houston, Rams, 49ers, Detroit, and finally back to Houston. New Orleans will run it this year with Klint Kubiak.
I think West Coast is similar to 4-3, in the sense that it is a big descriptor but there are many different ways to run it.
(08-03-2024, 01:01 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2024, 12:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Doug runs the Reid offense which is a variant of the Holmgren offense which is a variant of the Walsh offense; they are all forms of the West Coast offense that's a staple of the NFL. The schemes haven't changed in almost 50 years, they just get run by either good players or bad players.
I disagree with this to some extent. A good example is how the Shanahan offense has started to take over the league. First it was just Denver, then it spread to Houston, Rams, 49ers, Detroit, and finally back to Houston. New Orleans will run it this year with Klint Kubiak.
I think West Coast is similar to 4-3, in the sense that it is a big descriptor but there are many different ways to run it.
You both have good points. It all boils down to which stance you want to take, some will argue "It's Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's", others will say, "A good coach can feel out their roster and mid game put their Jimmy's and Joe's in the best possible plays to work to their advantage".
The problem is that, both arguments have a common denominator. Once the rubber meets the road? It's all situational and adjustments have to be made in real time. Best examples I can think of fall back on the Patriots in their two biggest Superbowl victories.
The win over Seattle and the win over Atlanta. Because of a bad play call at the goal line, with, at the time? One of the top, if not, best short yardage backs in the business in Lynch? The Seahawks did the unthinkable and choked with the victory right there for the taking. A simple play call changes the course of two dynasties and legacies there.
The Atlanta game? Kyle should have tried taking more air out of the football and bleeding the clock dry. It's as simple as that. His unwillingness to adapt and change mid game enabled one of the greatest choke jobs in NFL history.
We can argue about, "Well, it's the Patriots! It's Brady!". Okay, let's, again, flip it back to their losses with the Giants, twice, and then the Eagles. Those teams were talented, however, at the time, the Giants went toe-to-toe with an undefeated football team, something that had not been done since the 1970's. Because of the coaching decisions in those games? And, a little luck?
They got it done. Big time players make big time plays. Good coaches get the most out of those players. We'll find out what Jacksonville has this season. If they fall short? Somebody is getting the boot. While I don't feel it'll be Pederson personally. I could see this being Baalke's last stint and/or Taylor's if the offense does not take the step forward they we were expecting last year.
It all boils down to the O line. The defense is going to be a degree of magnitude better. But ultimately, did they do enough to address starter quality and depth on the O line.
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(08-03-2024, 09:59 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]It all boils down to the O line. The defense is going to be a degree of magnitude better. But ultimately, did they do enough to address starter quality and depth on the O line.
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Yes, Morse and Cleveland with good ol Walker Little as the swingman and some rookies mixed in with a revived tugboat.
(08-03-2024, 09:08 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2024, 01:01 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree with this to some extent. A good example is how the Shanahan offense has started to take over the league. First it was just Denver, then it spread to Houston, Rams, 49ers, Detroit, and finally back to Houston. New Orleans will run it this year with Klint Kubiak.
I think West Coast is similar to 4-3, in the sense that it is a big descriptor but there are many different ways to run it.
You both have good points. It all boils down to which stance you want to take, some will argue "It's Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's", others will say, "A good coach can feel out their roster and mid game put their Jimmy's and Joe's in the best possible plays to work to their advantage".
The problem is that, both arguments have a common denominator. Once the rubber meets the road? It's all situational and adjustments have to be made in real time. Best examples I can think of fall back on the Patriots in their two biggest Superbowl victories.
The win over Seattle and the win over Atlanta. Because of a bad play call at the goal line, with, at the time? One of the top, if not, best short yardage backs in the business in Lynch? The Seahawks did the unthinkable and choked with the victory right there for the taking. A simple play call changes the course of two dynasties and legacies there.
The Atlanta game? Kyle should have tried taking more air out of the football and bleeding the clock dry. It's as simple as that. His unwillingness to adapt and change mid game enabled one of the greatest choke jobs in NFL history.
We can argue about, "Well, it's the Patriots! It's Brady!". Okay, let's, again, flip it back to their losses with the Giants, twice, and then the Eagles. Those teams were talented, however, at the time, the Giants went toe-to-toe with an undefeated football team, something that had not been done since the 1970's. Because of the coaching decisions in those games? And, a little luck?
They got it done. Big time players make big time plays. Good coaches get the most out of those players. We'll find out what Jacksonville has this season. If they fall short? Somebody is getting the boot. While I don't feel it'll be Pederson personally. I could see this being Baalke's last stint and/or Taylor's if the offense does not take the step forward they we were expecting last year.
It's both, it's Jimmy's and Joe's and X's and O's. You have to have the players but you have to have to call the right plays and have a better scheme/ play calls to get the most out of the players and for them to play at their best. 2 coaches could have the same play book and each could call 2 different games with the some play book and you can see 2 different outcomes. Play calling is a huge part and if it wasn't you wouldn't see multiple defensive and offensive coordinators getting fired each year.
Doug's play calling is one of the things that make him a great coach. He needs to take that role back imo and then there are no excuse. Shad Khan agrees and Doug said he will take Shads opinion into account when making the decision on who calls plays. I feel like that's one of the reasons Shad brought Doug here to coach the team. I think Doug ends up the play caller for that reason at the very least.
(08-04-2024, 11:02 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2024, 09:08 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You both have good points. It all boils down to which stance you want to take, some will argue "It's Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's", others will say, "A good coach can feel out their roster and mid game put their Jimmy's and Joe's in the best possible plays to work to their advantage".
The problem is that, both arguments have a common denominator. Once the rubber meets the road? It's all situational and adjustments have to be made in real time. Best examples I can think of fall back on the Patriots in their two biggest Superbowl victories.
The win over Seattle and the win over Atlanta. Because of a bad play call at the goal line, with, at the time? One of the top, if not, best short yardage backs in the business in Lynch? The Seahawks did the unthinkable and choked with the victory right there for the taking. A simple play call changes the course of two dynasties and legacies there.
The Atlanta game? Kyle should have tried taking more air out of the football and bleeding the clock dry. It's as simple as that. His unwillingness to adapt and change mid game enabled one of the greatest choke jobs in NFL history.
We can argue about, "Well, it's the Patriots! It's Brady!". Okay, let's, again, flip it back to their losses with the Giants, twice, and then the Eagles. Those teams were talented, however, at the time, the Giants went toe-to-toe with an undefeated football team, something that had not been done since the 1970's. Because of the coaching decisions in those games? And, a little luck?
They got it done. Big time players make big time plays. Good coaches get the most out of those players. We'll find out what Jacksonville has this season. If they fall short? Somebody is getting the boot. While I don't feel it'll be Pederson personally. I could see this being Baalke's last stint and/or Taylor's if the offense does not take the step forward they we were expecting last year.
It's both, it's Jimmy's and Joe's and X's and O's. You have to have the players but you have to have to call the right plays and have a better scheme/ play calls to get the most out of the players and for them to play at their best. 2 coaches could have the same play book and each could call 2 different games with the some play book and you can see 2 different outcomes. Play calling is a huge part and if it wasn't you wouldn't see multiple defensive and offensive coordinators getting fired each year.
Doug's play calling is one of the things that make him a great coach. He needs to take that role back imo and then there are no excuse. Shad Khan agrees and Doug said he will take Shads opinion into account when making the decision on who calls plays. I feel like that's one of the reasons Shad brought Doug here to coach the team. I think Doug ends up the play caller for that reason at the very least.
Again, for the slow guys, it doesn't matter who they say is the play caller. Doug, Press, Billy Bob in the 3rd row...it's just a drama factory for clicks. It all goes through Pederson and Taylor clearly calls Pederson's offense the way Pederson wants it called. The offense looked no different between the last two seasons, all that was different is that Lawrence got hurt this year because the line was terrible. Both years the run game was a hinderance, both years drops were a problem, both years the pass pro wasn't good enough. THAT is what matters, this Madden-fueled idea that the play caller is the biggest factor in a team's success is just silly. It doesn't matter whether it's Pederson or Taylor, the results were already shown to be the same.
To think the play that's called doesn't matter lol
(08-04-2024, 03:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]To think the play that's called doesn't matter lol
To think it matters when your line is getting whipped...lol. To think it was different between the two seasons...lol. To think Doug isn't getting what he wants from the calls and just lets it go...lol. To think it's Xs and Os and not Jimmys and Joes...LOL.