Elevated testosterone levels are a HUGE advantage in competition. I take TRT and keep my levels around 1000-1200 and at age 51, I was still using 120 lbs dumbbells for chest press and 80 for shoulder press. Intersex individuals have a huge advantage when it comes to a sport like boxing because of the additional upper body strength it provides.
Should intersex individuals be banned from the Olympics? Absolutely.
(08-03-2024, 10:53 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2024, 10:33 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]You said. There's no evidence that these people are transgender. They're probably intersex or a similar disorder. Intersex assigned female people have been in the Olympics for about a century.
My bad for not being very specific.
Heinrich formerly Dora Ratjen is the most famous example, he identified as a man later in life but was raised as a girl/woman and competed with females. He was both anatomically and hormonally intersex. Yea, and when found out was stripped of the world record returning it to Dorothy Tyler-Odam.
Castor Semenya is a recent example. She has male hormones but female body parts.
Once again after being found out the following occurred.
In 2019, new IAAF (World Athletics) rules came into force for athletes like Semenya with certain disorders of sex development (DSDs) requiring medication to suppress testosterone levels in order to participate in 400m, 800m, and 1500m women's events. Semenya objected to undergoing the treatment which is now mandatory.
We should assume there are other examples that never became public. Why? you are welcome to assume but that is not proof.
Men develop an additional layer of muscle which does not go away. How is that fair? It is not.
Why am I not surprised that Mikesez is the only one here that justifies males in female sports?
(08-04-2024, 09:00 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Why am I not surprised that Mikesez is the only one here that justifies males in female sports?
These two boxers are not anatomically male. It may be that they should have to take hormone suppression medication before competing, but that's an issue for the refs to decide, not the politicians. It's an athletics issue, not a political or transgender issue. They are intersex, not transgender.
Mike is correct. The boxer was born with female genitalia and has always identified as a female. However, she has XY chromosomes. It's a highly unusual situation.
(08-04-2024, 11:55 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 09:00 AM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Why am I not surprised that Mikesez is the only one here that justifies males in female sports?
These two boxers are not anatomically male. It may be that they should have to take hormone suppression medication before competing, but that's an issue for the refs to decide, not the politicians. It's an athletics issue, not a political or transgender issue. They are intersex, not transgender.
Yes, and after the fact when the deception was uncovered the appropriate actions were taken. Bottom line is (I believe Americus2 said it best.) They should lobby for a separate classification not insist on competing with a known unfair advantage.
I agree they can honestly believe they whatever they want. What they cannot do is demand to be celebrated, acquire extra or special privileges because of that. Also, they do not have the right to interfere with anyone's children. If they do then that indicates indeed they are not being honest Both boxers knew they were doing wrong and hid it. Once exposed banned. A recent classic example is the failed swimmer Lia Thomas. She was as a man ranked #462 and now #1 as a woman. Some people just want the easy button to success, fame and fortune. I am ok with a Trans and inter sexed people class being added to the man/ women class. However I suspect the Trans and inter sexed do not. They just want the easy button.
Still no proof?
(08-04-2024, 12:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Mike is correct. The boxer was born with female genitalia and has always identified as a female. However, she has XY chromosomes. It's a highly unusual situation.
Well, you can't say he's correct, because he was repeating the leftist narrative that this was only about testosterone, which it wasn't. I feel sorry for the Algerian boxer, but nobody can be rational anymore. Once again, this is an issue that is largely propagated by the left, then they point fingers at the right for overreacting. If they'd stop trying to normalize abnormal things, people would be much more understanding.
I have a question. If a person had all female parts from birth but had way too much testosterone levels would you sleep with her?
(08-04-2024, 12:11 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 11:55 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]These two boxers are not anatomically male. It may be that they should have to take hormone suppression medication before competing, but that's an issue for the refs to decide, not the politicians. It's an athletics issue, not a political or transgender issue. They are intersex, not transgender.
Yes, and after the fact when the deception was uncovered the appropriate actions were taken. Bottom line is (I believe Americus2 said it best.) They should lobby for a separate classification not insist on competing with a known unfair advantage.
I agree they can honestly believe they whatever they want. What they cannot do is demand to be celebrated, acquire extra or special privileges because of that. Also, they do not have the right to interfere with anyone's children. If they do then that indicates indeed they are not being honest Both boxers knew they were doing wrong and hid it. Once exposed banned. A recent classic example is the failed swimmer Lia Thomas. She was as a man ranked #462 and now #1 as a woman. Some people just want the easy button to success, fame and fortune. I am ok with a Trans and inter sexed people class being added to the man/ women class. However I suspect the Trans and inter sexed do not. They just want the easy button.
Still no proof?
Lia Thomas is a totally different situation.
(08-04-2024, 12:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 12:11 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, and after the fact when the deception was uncovered the appropriate actions were taken. Bottom line is (I believe Americus2 said it best.) They should lobby for a separate classification not insist on competing with a known unfair advantage.
I agree they can honestly believe they whatever they want. What they cannot do is demand to be celebrated, acquire extra or special privileges because of that. Also, they do not have the right to interfere with anyone's children. If they do then that indicates indeed they are not being honest Both boxers knew they were doing wrong and hid it. Once exposed banned. A recent classic example is the failed swimmer Lia Thomas. She was as a man ranked #462 and now #1 as a woman. Some people just want the easy button to success, fame and fortune. I am ok with a Trans and inter sexed people class being added to the man/ women class. However I suspect the Trans and inter sexed do not. They just want the easy button.
Still no proof?
Lia Thomas is a totally different situation.
Still no proof. They should lobby for a separate classification not insist on competing with a known unfair advantage.
(08-04-2024, 12:36 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I have a question. If a person had all female parts from birth but had way too much testosterone levels would you sleep with her?
Probably wouldn't have much choice if he/she/they/zhe/etc decided you would.
I really get tired of debating this story. Why don't we talk about all those trans men unfairly winning the men's competitions?
(08-04-2024, 12:28 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 12:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Mike is correct. The boxer was born with female genitalia and has always identified as a female. However, she has XY chromosomes. It's a highly unusual situation.
Well, you can't say he's correct, because he was repeating the leftist narrative that this was only about testosterone, which it wasn't. I feel sorry for the Algerian boxer, but nobody can be rational anymore. Once again, this is an issue that is largely propagated by the left, then they point fingers at the right for overreacting. If they'd stop trying to normalize abnormal things, people would be much more understanding.
What is it about besides testosterone?
(08-04-2024, 02:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 12:36 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I have a question. If a person had all female parts from birth but had way too much testosterone levels would you sleep with her?
Probably wouldn't have much choice if he/she/they/zhe/etc decided you would.
I really get tired of debating this story. Why don't we talk about all those trans men unfairly winning the men's competitions?
Very sorry, I just was looking for proof that it was ok and had been done for over 100 years. My bad...
(08-04-2024, 03:31 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 02:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Probably wouldn't have much choice if he/she/they/zhe/etc decided you would.
I really get tired of debating this story. Why don't we talk about all those trans men unfairly winning the men's competitions?
Very sorry, I just was looking for proof that it was ok and had been done for over 100 years. My bad...
Nah, I was just bein' snarky about how this doesn't really affect men's competitions. And you won't find evidence from that guy, it ruins his fun being Captain Contrarian.
(08-04-2024, 02:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 12:36 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I have a question. If a person had all female parts from birth but had way too much testosterone levels would you sleep with her?
Probably wouldn't have much choice if he/she/they/zhe/etc decided you would.
I really get tired of debating this story. Why don't we talk about all those trans men unfairly winning the men's competitions?
*Crickets*
(08-04-2024, 03:31 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 02:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Probably wouldn't have much choice if he/she/they/zhe/etc decided you would.
I really get tired of debating this story. Why don't we talk about all those trans men unfairly winning the men's competitions?
Very sorry, I just was looking for proof that it was ok and had been done for over 100 years. My bad...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...x_athletes
I didn't say it was OK. I said it wasn't new, and wasn't political, and has nothing to do with transgenderism.
(08-04-2024, 04:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 03:31 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Very sorry, I just was looking for proof that it was ok and had been done for over 100 years. My bad...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...x_athletes
I didn't say it was OK. I said it wasn't new, and wasn't political, and has nothing to do with transgenderism.
I do love how your Copy Pasta highlights the issue so clearly:
Sex verification is not conducted on athletes in the men's categories.[63] If a male athlete's performance is considered suspicious, doping controls are used.[
(08-04-2024, 04:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 03:31 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Very sorry, I just was looking for proof that it was ok and had been done for over 100 years. My bad...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...x_athletes
I didn't say it was OK. I said it wasn't new, and wasn't political, and has nothing to do with transgenderism.
Thanks, interesting article. Seems most had operations or took the drugs to compete. However, the real issue basically began with Hilter's Germany and passion for proving the Aryan race superior? You really going with that? Guess in my scorecard that is a check mark against the Democrats this year evaluation.
https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/how-the-...g-tzsnzfci
One began lobbying for a new class called Open. The rest were just looking for the easy button. Proves it has happened but not that it is ok.Also is is less than 100 years.
(08-04-2024, 04:38 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-04-2024, 04:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_in...x_athletes
I didn't say it was OK. I said it wasn't new, and wasn't political, and has nothing to do with transgenderism.
Thanks, interesting article. Seems most had operations or took the drugs to compete. However, the real issue basically began with Hilter's Germany and passion for proving the Aryan race superior? You really going with that? Guess in my scorecard that is a check mark against the Democrats this year evaluation.
https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/how-the-...g-tzsnzfci
One began lobbying for a new class called Open. The rest were just looking for the easy button. Proves it has happened but not that it is ok.Also is is less than 100 years.
A decision by the IOC is a strike against Democrats? OK.