(10-03-2024, 10:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2024, 11:43 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Draft, Develop, Repeat.
There was a wise moderator that used to say that during the 2010s when things started going sideways for the first time.
The thing many moderators now forget is that there is this key word: "Develop"
If you can't draft talent, get rid of the GM. If you can't develop players, get rid of the coaches. If you can't do either. Start over again.
That dude was pretty wise. Kinda a jerk sometimes, but wise.
I miss that guy.
FBT?
moar like MIA amirite
(10-03-2024, 10:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2024, 11:43 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Draft, Develop, Repeat.
There was a wise moderator that used to say that during the 2010s when things started going sideways for the first time.
The thing many moderators now forget is that there is this key word: "Develop"
If you can't draft talent, get rid of the GM. If you can't develop players, get rid of the coaches. If you can't do either. Start over again.
That dude was pretty wise. Kinda a jerk sometimes, but wise.
I miss that guy.
FBT?
I think it was Pirkster (sp?) He had a blue duck as his avatar. He was prickly, but smart.
(10-03-2024, 07:32 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-03-2024, 10:06 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]FBT?
I think it was Pirkster (sp?) He had a blue duck as his avatar. He was prickly, but smart.
Pirkster's avatar according to Google Lens is from the Seven Samurai, but I always thought it was the coconut banging guy from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Perry the Platypus was a different poster, can't remember the name.
(10-01-2024, 04:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 04:19 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Last one we had was Jalen Ramsey, defensively built, and Myles Jack is still not down. We had like 4 all pros on that D? That 2017 team damn sure should of been in the superbowl. It's a players league, you don't build around average.
True. That defense was so good I forgot who the defensive coordinator was. Babish or Babich maybe? Carried by talent that exceeded his X's and O's.
It was a good defense though. You had Ngakoue, Campbell and Jackson along the line. Smith and Jack on the outside with Paul in the middle manning it all.
Ramsey and Bouye were tough to get past on the outside and our safety play was solid. Think it was Gipson and one other guy I can't remember.
We need a better front office for sure with a better general manager. Starts there.
Barry Church, from the Cowboys.
In 2017, Barry Church had a career year with a career-high 1.5 sacks, a career-high 51 return yards, a career-high 8 PD’s and a career-high 4 int’s and returned one of those interceptions for a TD, which was also a career-high since it was the only time he returned an interception for a TD. (He scooped a fumble recovery for a TD over in Dallas)
Church started all 16 games for the Jaguars in 2017. The following season he started 11 games for the Jaguars, with just 1 interception and then retired after the 2018 season.
FS Church, SS Gipson, RCB Bouye, LCB Ramsey combined for 18 interceptions in 2017, which is a franchise record for a Jaguars starting unit in the secondary.
That defense was unbelievable, and should have played in the Super Bowl that season with a chance to have their names etched into one of the greatest defensive units in Super Bowl history, under Sacksonville.
(10-01-2024, 10:22 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 04:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Are you listing players to build around or players that will be on the roster next year?
This list is more about players we can build around following this season. Some of the players listed as possibilities will not be on the roster next season if they don't produce the remainder of this season. Walker Little, for example, is likely to be with another team willing to pay him more than the Jaguars. Personally, I'd like to see him get plugged in at right or left tackle now to see if he's worth keeping. Re-signing Robinson was a mistake.
Regarding Walker Little being plugged in: They’ve already done that boss. He was plugged in at left tackle when Cam was suspended, then right tackle when Taylor was injured, then back to left tackle when Cam went down with an injury, then they tried him at left guard and everytime he was sent right back to playing end. They ended up signing Ezra Cleveland, and drafting Anton Harrison.
(10-04-2024, 08:10 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 04:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]True. That defense was so good I forgot who the defensive coordinator was. Babish or Babich maybe? Carried by talent that exceeded his X's and O's.
It was a good defense though. You had Ngakoue, Campbell and Jackson along the line. Smith and Jack on the outside with Paul in the middle manning it all.
Ramsey and Bouye were tough to get past on the outside and our safety play was solid. Think it was Gipson and one other guy I can't remember.
We need a better front office for sure with a better general manager. Starts there.
Barry Church, from the Cowboys.
In 2017, Barry Church had a career year with a career-high 1.5 sacks, a career-high 51 return yards, a career-high 8 PD’s and a career-high 4 int’s and returned one of those interceptions for a TD, which was also a career-high since it was the only time he returned an interception for a TD. (He scooped a fumble recovery for a TD over in Dallas)
Church started all 16 games for the Jaguars in 2017. The following season he started 11 games for the Jaguars, with just 1 interception and then retired after the 2018 season.
The Ramsey effect. Which is why we need a DAMN superstar! Let's look around the league and see who's in first of their division and who they build around.
AFC East- Bills- Josh Allen
AFC West- Chiefs- Mahomes
AFC North- Steelers- Watt
AFC South- Texans- ? (but probably Collins)
NFC East- Commanders- Daniels
NFC West- Seahawks- Metcalf
NFC North- Vikings- Jefferson
NFC South- Falcons- Kirko
Our superstar SHOULD be TLAW, but it's a bad season rn. Travis Hunter is waiting.
(10-04-2024, 09:01 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ] (10-04-2024, 08:10 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Barry Church, from the Cowboys.
In 2017, Barry Church had a career year with a career-high 1.5 sacks, a career-high 51 return yards, a career-high 8 PD’s and a career-high 4 int’s and returned one of those interceptions for a TD, which was also a career-high since it was the only time he returned an interception for a TD. (He scooped a fumble recovery for a TD over in Dallas)
Church started all 16 games for the Jaguars in 2017. The following season he started 11 games for the Jaguars, with just 1 interception and then retired after the 2018 season.
The Ramsey effect. Which is why we need a DAMN superstar! Let's look around the league and see who's in first of their division and who they build around.
AFC East- Bills- Josh Allen
AFC West- Chiefs- Mahomes
AFC North- Steelers- Watt
AFC South- Texans- ? (but probably Collins)
NFC East- Commanders- Daniels
NFC West- Seahawks- Metcalf
NFC North- Vikings- Jefferson
NFC South- Falcons- Kirko
Our superstar SHOULD be TLAW, but it's a bad season rn. Travis Hunter is waiting.
The_Franchise_QB:
AFC South - Texans - ? (but probably Collins)
You looked around the league a little bit too fast. Texans_Franchise_QB, CJ Stroud?
Lawrence is one of our superstars. He’s also the only player in franchise history to receive a vote as an MVP candidate, when he received a 4th and 5th place vote which put him 7th in 2022.
He’s the only player to have back to back 4,000 yard passing seasons.
Josh Hines-Allen is going to break the all-time sack record this season. He also broke Campbell’s single-season sack record, and he’s on his way to being the best defensive player in franchise history.
Both superstars got paid like superstars, and are now holding the 2 richest contracts in franchise history.
The guys who popped in preseason were Tank Bigsby and Parker Washington. Tank has the talent and showed that he is a starting level talent in this league and has been one of the bright spots of the team this year. Parker showed that he is a legitimate slot guy, but has not gotten many reps due to Kirk’s astronomical salary.
The stand outs during the season have been BTJ, Brenton Strange, Ventrell Miller and Montaric Brown. BTJ is an athletic freak who strikes fear in his defender ala Jimmy Smith-this will benefit all of the other players because opposing defenders will roll coverage his way. Strange is a very good athlete and a very good blocker due to his passion for engaging his opponent in the run game. Miller is the definition of a guy who loves ball and his instincts are so good for his age, I really like the passion that he brings to the game. Montaric is a very physical and smart player who will always give his all and that allows him to ball out despite his lack of ideal speed for the position. If the team loses Cisco is FA, I could see Montaric being moved to the FS position.
(10-05-2024, 10:50 AM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]The guys who popped in preseason were Tank Bigsby and Parker Washington. Tank has the talent and showed that he is a starting level talent in this league and has been one of the bright spots of the team this year. Parker showed that he is a legitimate slot guy, but has not gotten many reps due to Kirk’s astronomical salary.
The stand outs during the season have been BTJ, Brenton Strange, Ventrell Miller and Montaric Brown. BTJ is an athletic freak who strikes fear in his defender ala Jimmy Smith-this will benefit all of the other players because opposing defenders will roll coverage his way. Strange is a very good athlete and a very good blocker due to his passion for engaging his opponent in the run game. Miller is the definition of a guy who loves ball and his instincts are so good for his age, I really like the passion that he brings to the game. Montaric is a very physical and smart player who will always give his all and that allows him to ball out despite his lack of ideal speed for the position. If the team loses Cisco is FA, I could see Montaric being moved to the FS position.
Brian Thomas can only wish he becomes half ala Jimmy Smith. But he’s a good young player who can take the top off.
Buster is struggling in man, love his effort.
Bumping this up we can have a frank and real convo about what levels of player the Jaguars currently have.
First, how many guys do the Jaguars have that are top five in the NFL at their position? JHA? Bigsby? With 32 teams in the league each one should average between 3 and 4 top five players among all positions.
Probably not Trevor, he's easily top half of the league, and maybe top 10 depending on how you rate various guys, but he doesn't look like top five right now. None of the offensive linemen, none of the receivers, maybe Engram depending on how you value possession receiving over blocking.
On defense JHA is arguable over his whole body of work, but hasn't looked like it this season. No one else on defense is even close to top five in the league at their position.
So if you're generous the Jaguars might have three, but none of them are plainly at that level.
How about top ten at their position. The average team should have 7 players at that level. Who is at that level on our team? Add Oluokun and Trevor to the the possibilities from the previous question. Maybe Campbell, but he hasn't been particularly good for a while now.
How about top half of the league? Half of our players should be at that level. I'd put Thomas, Kirk, cleveland, and Morse at that level, maybe Etienne, too, but he hasn't been recently, and he should be Bigsby's blacktop, so he wouldn't be helping anyway.
On defense Campbell probably is, maybe Hamilton and Walker as well.
I'm probably forgetting about a player or two, but you guys can remind me of those guys. I would hope that the main point is well understood by now that the team just doesn't have the requisite talent level to be great, and likely not even the talent level to be mediocre.
I think Trevor and Doug have spent the last three years covering up for the talent deficiency while Baalke has continually reduced the talent level around them.
I'm in no mood for a tear it down "rebuild".
Get in a competent GM and a HC that has the passion to coach and a record of helping young QBs and then regroup. We have holes all over the place. But we still have good pieces to build on.
Trevor is still worth building around. We're decent at RB, TE, and WR. The O-Line needs work. But Morse is doing OK. Cleveland seems like he's doing OK. Probably need to go back and find another Tackle and another Guard, though.
Defensively, we need some secondary depth and a couple DTs that can get pressure up the middle. We have Allen and Walker on the edges, and their OK. We got 3 sacks today, and there was actual pressure in the 2nd half. Our LB corps is pretty solid. We bring in a new DC that maybe can run the Defense to the strenghts of the team, and maybe our Safeties don't look so bad?
I don't know, that's just my thoughts on it.
I hate the idea of a rebuild, when I think that with better coaching and getting a better GM might be all this team needs.
(10-13-2024, 03:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm in no mood for a tear it down "rebuild".
Get in a competent GM and a HC that has the passion to coach and a record of helping young QBs and then regroup. We have holes all over the place. But we still have good pieces to build on.
Trevor is still worth building around. We're decent at RB, TE, and WR. The O-Line needs work. But Morse is doing OK. Cleveland seems like he's doing OK. Probably need to go back and find another Tackle and another Guard, though.
Defensively, we need some secondary depth and a couple DTs that can get pressure up the middle. We have Allen and Walker on the edges, and their OK. We got 3 sacks today, and there was actual pressure in the 2nd half. Our LB corps is pretty solid. We bring in a new DC that maybe can run the Defense to the strenghts of the team, and maybe our Safeties don't look so bad?
I don't know, that's just my thoughts on it.
I hate the idea of a rebuild, when I think that with better coaching and getting a better GM might be all this team needs.
Sadly Trevor is broken. Last year’s offensive line did him in. He has not shown an ounce of the confidence nor the swagger that got this team to 8-3 last year since his injury. Can he be salvaged? Maybe but Pederson nor Press are the answer.
(10-13-2024, 03:56 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2024, 03:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm in no mood for a tear it down "rebuild".
Get in a competent GM and a HC that has the passion to coach and a record of helping young QBs and then regroup. We have holes all over the place. But we still have good pieces to build on.
Trevor is still worth building around. We're decent at RB, TE, and WR. The O-Line needs work. But Morse is doing OK. Cleveland seems like he's doing OK. Probably need to go back and find another Tackle and another Guard, though.
Defensively, we need some secondary depth and a couple DTs that can get pressure up the middle. We have Allen and Walker on the edges, and their OK. We got 3 sacks today, and there was actual pressure in the 2nd half. Our LB corps is pretty solid. We bring in a new DC that maybe can run the Defense to the strenghts of the team, and maybe our Safeties don't look so bad?
I don't know, that's just my thoughts on it.
I hate the idea of a rebuild, when I think that with better coaching and getting a better GM might be all this team needs.
Sadly Trevor is broken. Last year’s offensive line did him in. He has not shown an ounce of the confidence nor the swagger that got this team to 8-3 last year since his injury. Can he be salvaged? Maybe but Pederson nor Press are the answer.
I think the entire team is broken. Since the ETN fumble in week 1, this team looks like they have completely lost all confidence in themselves and the coaches. It's shocking to watch this slow motion trainwreck each week knowing that just 2 seasons ago we were in the playoffs winning home game and then to watch it all just completely go sideways.
Build around Logan Cooke and Cam Little.
Build a massive thunder dome for all 53 active players to fight in the death in. Last 22 survivors stay. We rebuild around the other 31.
(10-13-2024, 03:56 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2024, 03:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm in no mood for a tear it down "rebuild".
Get in a competent GM and a HC that has the passion to coach and a record of helping young QBs and then regroup. We have holes all over the place. But we still have good pieces to build on.
Trevor is still worth building around. We're decent at RB, TE, and WR. The O-Line needs work. But Morse is doing OK. Cleveland seems like he's doing OK. Probably need to go back and find another Tackle and another Guard, though.
Defensively, we need some secondary depth and a couple DTs that can get pressure up the middle. We have Allen and Walker on the edges, and their OK. We got 3 sacks today, and there was actual pressure in the 2nd half. Our LB corps is pretty solid. We bring in a new DC that maybe can run the Defense to the strenghts of the team, and maybe our Safeties don't look so bad?
I don't know, that's just my thoughts on it.
I hate the idea of a rebuild, when I think that with better coaching and getting a better GM might be all this team needs.
Sadly Trevor is broken. Last year’s offensive line did him in. He has not shown an ounce of the confidence nor the swagger that got this team to 8-3 last year since his injury. Can he be salvaged? Maybe but Pederson nor Press are the answer.
Dude. He’s literally hitting players in the chest in the end zone. What do you want him to do?
(10-13-2024, 04:00 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2024, 03:56 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Sadly Trevor is broken. Last year’s offensive line did him in. He has not shown an ounce of the confidence nor the swagger that got this team to 8-3 last year since his injury. Can he be salvaged? Maybe but Pederson nor Press are the answer.
I think the entire team is broken. Since the ETN fumble in week 1, this team looks like they have completely lost all confidence in themselves and the coaches. It's shocking to watch this slow motion trainwreck each week knowing that just 2 seasons ago we were in the playoffs winning home game and then to watch it all just completely go sideways.
Agreed. There is talent on this team and that is what frustrates us all. The coaching is not bringing it out. Doug looks completely lost.
(10-01-2024, 04:22 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]There is a disconnect in the play caller and the offense. It appears the players don’t like Press, but Doug wants to be a head coach and not a coordinator.
The players to build around are there but a CB is needed.
Gabe Davis: I don't like Press so I am going to drop this TD pass
Evan Engram: I don't like Press so I will let the Bears punch this ball out of my hands
Ronald Darby: I don't like Press, so I will grab this Bears receiver going down the field
Trevor: I don't like Press, so I will throw it to the Bears
The reason the Jaguars keep losing is not because of Press, its because they continue to play poorly.
Its easy to blame coaching or playcalling, but sometimes players have it and sometimes they just don't. Unfortunatcly, this group, while individually showing a flash now and then, just aren't good enough.
Ronal