(10-01-2024, 10:15 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 05:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]comments in red
Can't disagree with both your points. Oluokun is a tackling machine and would be missed greatly. Cleveland has done better since getting healthy and has a very affordable contract.
I appreciate your good synopsis!
Just adding a few notes there
(10-01-2024, 04:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Are you listing players to build around or players that will be on the roster next year?
This list is more about players we can build around following this season. Some of the players listed as possibilities will not be on the roster next season if they don't produce the remainder of this season. Walker Little, for example, is likely to be with another team willing to pay him more than the Jaguars. Personally, I'd like to see him get plugged in at right or left tackle now to see if he's worth keeping. Re-signing Robinson was a mistake.
There's really one player that needs to be the main focus on building around:
Trevor Lawrence
Put him in the best possible situation to succeed early with the new staff. A system that suits his abilities. You have a promising WR in Brian Thomas Jr. Stack the OL. Get a few WRs behind BTJ. Get an all-around RB who can run, block, and catch well. One of two things will happen: this team turns around quickly with wins in bunches or Trevor never recovers.
(10-01-2024, 02:14 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]This season has become our fans' worst nightmare. Three of the 4 losses were winnable which is almost more deflating than the loss to the Bills. Trevor Lawrence appears to have lost any confidence in his ability to carry this team. That being said, unless the Jaguars win their next 3 games (very possible due to poor opponents), it would be difficult to imagine ending the season with a record of better than 6-11. The talent level of this team has been debated. With that in mind, which players on the current roster should either be considered as definite building blocks or have the potential to be that if they show enough potential for the rest of this season? This is my list:
Definite building blocks:
Offense:
Trevor Lawrence: The team is locked into his contract and he can still become a top 10 q.b. with a better supporting cast and if he regains his confidence.
BTJ: One of the few bright spots this season.
Anton Harrison: He must do better, but could become a good left tackle.
Ezra Cleveland: Has been disappointing, but has a 3 year deal and can be at least average when healthy.
Mitch Morse: Hopefully the team will get at least 2 more good years out of him.
Brenton Strange: Not great, but worth keeping as a 2nd tight end.
Evan Engram: Like Morse, hopefully the team can get 2 more good years out of him.
Tank Bigsby: Looks the part as future number 1 back.
Possible building blocks:
Parker Washington: Kirk may need to be let go due to underperforming for his salary.
Cooper Hodges: Give him playing time to determine his future with this team.
Undecided: Etienne and Kirk due to not out-performing their less expensive options ( Bigsby and Washington ).
Defense: In the interest of brevity, the only players who are definites are Hines-Allen, Trevon Walker, Maason Smith, Campbell and likely Jefferson. Cisco has been a big disappointment and hasn't earned a new deal. Foye will be a tough decision due to his big contract and the possible emergence of Ventrell Miller. Lloyd and Muma will be on next year's roster, but have been disappointing as has Antonio Johnson. Armstead has also been a disappointment.
By my math, that makes 11 position players who should make up the nucleus with the possibility of another 5 or 6 depending on how they perform for the remainder of 2024. Is that enough for our desperate fans to have some optimism for the future? Obviously, that will be primarily dependent on Trevor Lawrence. Secondarily, a new G.M. is needed to help fill the voids on the offensive line, pass rush and secondary. As far as the coaching staff, their futures are uncertain at this point. If Pederson doesn't turn things around, he and several assistants will need to be fired.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.
My apologies to Buster Brown who deserved to be on this list. Also neglected was Darnell Savage. De'Antry Prince and Lacy are also possibilities on defense as is Walker Little if he produces as a starter the 2nd half of the season.
Unfortunately, I became distracted due to events in the Middle East and needed to edit my list.
Bold is the only reason he's staying after 2024. Dude never was and never will be a top 10 QB.
Morse is old, not building anything around a stop gap.
The rest of your post is solid.
(10-01-2024, 11:02 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 02:14 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]This season has become our fans' worst nightmare. Three of the 4 losses were winnable which is almost more deflating than the loss to the Bills. Trevor Lawrence appears to have lost any confidence in his ability to carry this team. That being said, unless the Jaguars win their next 3 games (very possible due to poor opponents), it would be difficult to imagine ending the season with a record of better than 6-11. The talent level of this team has been debated. With that in mind, which players on the current roster should either be considered as definite building blocks or have the potential to be that if they show enough potential for the rest of this season? This is my list:
Definite building blocks:
Offense:
Trevor Lawrence: The team is locked into his contract and he can still become a top 10 q.b. with a better supporting cast and if he regains his confidence.
BTJ: One of the few bright spots this season.
Anton Harrison: He must do better, but could become a good left tackle.
Ezra Cleveland: Has been disappointing, but has a 3 year deal and can be at least average when healthy.
Mitch Morse: Hopefully the team will get at least 2 more good years out of him.
Brenton Strange: Not great, but worth keeping as a 2nd tight end.
Evan Engram: Like Morse, hopefully the team can get 2 more good years out of him.
Tank Bigsby: Looks the part as future number 1 back.
Possible building blocks:
Parker Washington: Kirk may need to be let go due to underperforming for his salary.
Cooper Hodges: Give him playing time to determine his future with this team.
Undecided: Etienne and Kirk due to not out-performing their less expensive options ( Bigsby and Washington ).
Defense: In the interest of brevity, the only players who are definites are Hines-Allen, Trevon Walker, Maason Smith, Campbell and likely Jefferson. Cisco has been a big disappointment and hasn't earned a new deal. Foye will be a tough decision due to his big contract and the possible emergence of Ventrell Miller. Lloyd and Muma will be on next year's roster, but have been disappointing as has Antonio Johnson. Armstead has also been a disappointment.
By my math, that makes 11 position players who should make up the nucleus with the possibility of another 5 or 6 depending on how they perform for the remainder of 2024. Is that enough for our desperate fans to have some optimism for the future? Obviously, that will be primarily dependent on Trevor Lawrence. Secondarily, a new G.M. is needed to help fill the voids on the offensive line, pass rush and secondary. As far as the coaching staff, their futures are uncertain at this point. If Pederson doesn't turn things around, he and several assistants will need to be fired.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.
My apologies to Buster Brown who deserved to be on this list. Also neglected was Darnell Savage. De'Antry Prince and Lacy are also possibilities on defense as is Walker Little if he produces as a starter the 2nd half of the season.
Unfortunately, I became distracted due to events in the Middle East and needed to edit my list.
Bold is the only reason he's staying after 2024. Dude never was and never will be a top 10 QB.
Morse is old, not building anything around a stop gap.
The rest of your post is solid.
It's pretty funny how your dumb [BLEEP] completely left when Trevor and the team was playing well, only to reappear when Trevor and the team is struggling. You're a joke dude. Nobody gives a single [BLEEP] what you have to say. Do us all a favor and disappear again.
(10-01-2024, 11:02 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 02:14 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]This season has become our fans' worst nightmare. Three of the 4 losses were winnable which is almost more deflating than the loss to the Bills. Trevor Lawrence appears to have lost any confidence in his ability to carry this team. That being said, unless the Jaguars win their next 3 games (very possible due to poor opponents), it would be difficult to imagine ending the season with a record of better than 6-11. The talent level of this team has been debated. With that in mind, which players on the current roster should either be considered as definite building blocks or have the potential to be that if they show enough potential for the rest of this season? This is my list:
Definite building blocks:
Offense:
Trevor Lawrence: The team is locked into his contract and he can still become a top 10 q.b. with a better supporting cast and if he regains his confidence.
BTJ: One of the few bright spots this season.
Anton Harrison: He must do better, but could become a good left tackle.
Ezra Cleveland: Has been disappointing, but has a 3 year deal and can be at least average when healthy.
Mitch Morse: Hopefully the team will get at least 2 more good years out of him.
Brenton Strange: Not great, but worth keeping as a 2nd tight end.
Evan Engram: Like Morse, hopefully the team can get 2 more good years out of him.
Tank Bigsby: Looks the part as future number 1 back.
Possible building blocks:
Parker Washington: Kirk may need to be let go due to underperforming for his salary.
Cooper Hodges: Give him playing time to determine his future with this team.
Undecided: Etienne and Kirk due to not out-performing their less expensive options ( Bigsby and Washington ).
Defense: In the interest of brevity, the only players who are definites are Hines-Allen, Trevon Walker, Maason Smith, Campbell and likely Jefferson. Cisco has been a big disappointment and hasn't earned a new deal. Foye will be a tough decision due to his big contract and the possible emergence of Ventrell Miller. Lloyd and Muma will be on next year's roster, but have been disappointing as has Antonio Johnson. Armstead has also been a disappointment.
By my math, that makes 11 position players who should make up the nucleus with the possibility of another 5 or 6 depending on how they perform for the remainder of 2024. Is that enough for our desperate fans to have some optimism for the future? Obviously, that will be primarily dependent on Trevor Lawrence. Secondarily, a new G.M. is needed to help fill the voids on the offensive line, pass rush and secondary. As far as the coaching staff, their futures are uncertain at this point. If Pederson doesn't turn things around, he and several assistants will need to be fired.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.
My apologies to Buster Brown who deserved to be on this list. Also neglected was Darnell Savage. De'Antry Prince and Lacy are also possibilities on defense as is Walker Little if he produces as a starter the 2nd half of the season.
Unfortunately, I became distracted due to events in the Middle East and needed to edit my list.
Bold is the only reason he's staying after 2024. Dude never was and never will be a top 10 QB.
Morse is old, not building anything around a stop gap.
The rest of your post is solid.
I sure hope you're wrong about Lawrence. In 2022, he was clearly in the top 10 statistically and if a draft were held at that point most General Managers would have selected him in the top 10 of all NFL players. What has happened to him during the 2nd half of last season and the 1st 4 games this year has been painful to watch. He is the first to admit his performance has been very poor since midway of last season. However, his very poor offensive line during this period as well as a compilation of injuries last year have also contributed. Nobody, including himself, knows for sure whether he will ultimately be looked at like previous top 5 picks such as Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Sam Bradford and RG 3- to name just a small sample of huge disappointments at the position. I'd prefer to believe that he is capable of rebounding and having a successful career like Carson Palmer, Brett Favre, Alex Smith, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw and Drew Brees- just 6 examples of players who were at one point called busts for one reason or another.
At the young age of 24, Lawrence is very capable of becoming more like the 2nd group listed- players with high levels of physical talent who also had the intangibles necessary to rebound from adversity experienced early in their careers. However, he is also not like a Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady- 2 players who have been able to consistently win at a high level despite occasionally having just average supporting casts. In my opinion, we will all have have a very good idea how he will end up by the end of the 2025-26 season. If management fails to provide him with the necessary supporting cast, he will sadly top the list of greatest disappointments in team history. It is in Shad Khan's hands to hire a General Manager capable of securing this talent.
(10-02-2024, 09:42 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I know JHA is mentioned positively in this thread for the most part, but others are bashing him elsewhere for not finishing with sacks.
Here's how he stands in PFF grading if you lend that credence:
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1841470692862423540
He's getting paid more than those four other premier edge rushers in front of him though. I haven't been critical of him personally. He'll eventually get his sack numbers, just like Walker. Other than the Bills beatdown and less than five drives outside of that game?
I honestly have zero bones to pick with this defense. Would I like to see him come up with a massive turnover? Sure. Thats one small complaint of him. But, all in all?
He's fine. Especially considering the injuries to the back seven and very minimal changes from within the interior.
(10-01-2024, 04:12 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]You build around superstars, and we have none. There is a reason we are the most losing franchise in over a decade. Can’t build around average, and you need to hit with the #1 picks. We about to have the #1 pick 3rd time in 5 years.
I think there's a lot of truth in this statement. Mainly because there's a lack of core identity on the team. If you look at the Ravens for example, you know that when you play them you're going up against a defense that will take your head off. They aren't a speed team, they don't have a tricky playbook, but they draft/sign offensive and defensive players that will let you know that you played them while you're sitting in the ice bath the next day. Their offense is going to pound your defense until it wears down (I think Derrick Henry was a great signing for them) then Lamar will take advantage of your tiredness. To me this is the type of team you don't want to see later on in the season when most of your players will be dinged up.
I think that if the Jags had selected Aiden Hutchinson across from JHA that their defensive ends could have become the start of a defensive identity, limiting the opposing QBs time and consistently sealing the edge, and the more I've seen Maason play I think next year he will be a great addition to the IDL. The Jags have two solid running backs, but they haven't invested (properly) in the Oline that could have created holes for them to wear down a defense. Resigning Scherff and not upgrading Cleveland was a huge mistake if you want to be a run-first team.
On another note, and here's where I'll catch some flak. If I look at Doug Pederson's original west-coast offense it is meant to have quick agile (generally smaller) WRs to dominate the short/middle/edge section of the field. The routes should have screens and (legal) pick/rub plays to pick up 5-10 yards per pass. The west-coast offense should value a QB's accuracy much more than deep ball power, and Trevor is not a west-coast offense QB. If I look at the new big-bodied WRs that were brought in, it looks like Pederson was trying to adapt to a vertical style of offense that better suits TLaw. If you watch the offensive passing plays, you'll see that the majority of the routes are deep down the field. The problem is that you have to have OLmen that can holdup for a 5-step (or 7-step) drop...
(10-02-2024, 11:58 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2024, 04:12 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]You build around superstars, and we have none. There is a reason we are the most losing franchise in over a decade. Can’t build around average, and you need to hit with the #1 picks. We about to have the #1 pick 3rd time in 5 years.
I think there's a lot of truth in this statement. Mainly because there's a lack of core identity on the team. If you look at the Ravens for example, you know that when you play them you're going up against a defense that will take your head off. They aren't a speed team, they don't have a tricky playbook, but they draft/sign offensive and defensive players that will let you know that you played them while you're sitting in the ice bath the next day. Their offense is going to pound your defense until it wears down (I think Derrick Henry was a great signing for them) then Lamar will take advantage of your tiredness. To me this is the type of team you don't want to see later on in the season when most of your players will be dinged up.
I think that if the Jags had selected Aiden Hutchinson across from JHA that their defensive ends could have become the start of a defensive identity, limiting the opposing QBs time and consistently sealing the edge, and the more I've seen Maason play I think next year he will be a great addition to the IDL. The Jags have two solid running backs, but they haven't invested (properly) in the Oline that could have created holes for them to wear down a defense. Resigning Scherff and not upgrading Cleveland was a huge mistake if you want to be a run-first team.
On another note, and here's where I'll catch some flak. If I look at Doug Pederson's original west-coast offense it is meant to have quick agile (generally smaller) WRs to dominate the short/middle/edge section of the field. The routes should have screens and (legal) pick/rub plays to pick up 5-10 yards per pass. The west-coast offense should value a QB's accuracy much more than deep ball power, and Trevor is not a west-coast offense QB. If I look at the new big-bodied WRs that were brought in, it looks like Pederson was trying to adapt to a vertical style of offense that better suits TLaw. If you watch the offensive passing plays, you'll see that the majority of the routes are deep down the field. The problem is that you have to have OLmen that can holdup for a 5-step (or 7-step) drop...
No there isn't
That's total garbage
You don't build around [BLEEP] superstars - LOL - ridiculous
You build around foundational pieces. Above average players that can anchor positional groups. Hopefully starting in the damn trenches - which is where this team [BLEEP] the proverbial bed.
It's amazing if you can have at least one superstar on each side of the ball but that isn't how you build a [BLEEP] team. The timing of finding those guys is too finite and undetermined.
Pederson did what you described in the last paragraph here for two years. This year he tried to go more vertical with play action ramped up mare than double last year's rate + lots of drops from under center and it has bitten him in the [BLEEP] more than it has paid off thus far.
(10-02-2024, 05:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2024, 11:58 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]I think there's a lot of truth in this statement. Mainly because there's a lack of core identity on the team. If you look at the Ravens for example, you know that when you play them you're going up against a defense that will take your head off. They aren't a speed team, they don't have a tricky playbook, but they draft/sign offensive and defensive players that will let you know that you played them while you're sitting in the ice bath the next day. Their offense is going to pound your defense until it wears down (I think Derrick Henry was a great signing for them) then Lamar will take advantage of your tiredness. To me this is the type of team you don't want to see later on in the season when most of your players will be dinged up.
I think that if the Jags had selected Aiden Hutchinson across from JHA that their defensive ends could have become the start of a defensive identity, limiting the opposing QBs time and consistently sealing the edge, and the more I've seen Maason play I think next year he will be a great addition to the IDL. The Jags have two solid running backs, but they haven't invested (properly) in the Oline that could have created holes for them to wear down a defense. Resigning Scherff and not upgrading Cleveland was a huge mistake if you want to be a run-first team.
On another note, and here's where I'll catch some flak. If I look at Doug Pederson's original west-coast offense it is meant to have quick agile (generally smaller) WRs to dominate the short/middle/edge section of the field. The routes should have screens and (legal) pick/rub plays to pick up 5-10 yards per pass. The west-coast offense should value a QB's accuracy much more than deep ball power, and Trevor is not a west-coast offense QB. If I look at the new big-bodied WRs that were brought in, it looks like Pederson was trying to adapt to a vertical style of offense that better suits TLaw. If you watch the offensive passing plays, you'll see that the majority of the routes are deep down the field. The problem is that you have to have OLmen that can holdup for a 5-step (or 7-step) drop...
No there isn't
That's total garbage
You don't build around [BLEEP] superstars - LOL - ridiculous
You build around foundational pieces. Above average players that can anchor positional groups. Hopefully starting in the damn trenches - which is where this team [BLEEP] the proverbial bed.
It's amazing if you can have at least one superstar on each side of the ball but that isn't how you build a [BLEEP] team. The timing of finding those guys is too finite and undetermined.
Pederson did what you described in the last paragraph here for two years. This year he tried to go more vertical with play action ramped up mare than double last year's rate + lots of drops from under center and it has bitten him in the [BLEEP] more than it has paid off thus far.
Ahh you're right, the Chiefs keep going to the Superbowl because Mahomes and Kelce are both "above average players."
(10-02-2024, 07:38 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2024, 05:50 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]No there isn't
That's total garbage
You don't build around [BLEEP] superstars - LOL - ridiculous
You build around foundational pieces. Above average players that can anchor positional groups. Hopefully starting in the damn trenches - which is where this team [BLEEP] the proverbial bed.
It's amazing if you can have at least one superstar on each side of the ball but that isn't how you build a [BLEEP] team. The timing of finding those guys is too finite and undetermined.
Pederson did what you described in the last paragraph here for two years. This year he tried to go more vertical with play action ramped up mare than double last year's rate + lots of drops from under center and it has bitten him in the [BLEEP] more than it has paid off thus far.
Ahh you're right, the Chiefs keep going to the Superbowl because Mahomes and Kelce are both "above average players."
Outliers make horrible examples when you are trying to defend a narrative that contains failed logic.
If landing a generational QB that many are already calling the greatest ever were such a "great way to build a team" everyone would be doing it. But it's damn near impossible.
That's why the Jaguars could land the greatest GM on the planet and the greatest coach to work under him or with him this offseason, and the odds of them finding 2 superstars on par with Mahomes and Kelce would still be damn near those of me winning the lottery this week. Especially with the covid kids coming out in the draft next year.
You want to adopt a strategy of finding two guys like that to begin your team building, you better buckle up for a long [BLEEP] ride, pal. It might take you 20+ years to hit on your cornerstones and get your build off the ground.
Everyone tries every year to draft or acquire players like that. Most of them fail way more often than they succeed. Which is why teams go after building block players with much of their capital and swing for the fences in measured doses trying to hit on their potential superstars.
I like the core of this team, overall. I think there are young modern minded coaches that can get this team to it's potential.
With that said. I like the D as it is. Though Baalke should be fired for how he drafted, there are still players on D that are worth keeping around for a playoff run next year.
The WR talent and TE talent is pretty good. I would have rather kept Zay Jones instead of paying for Gabe, but with Zay's off field issues, I get why they had to let him go. I'm glad we don't have Ridley here anymore. That dude is garbage. BTJ is a true #1 WR.
The O-Line is serviceable. Imagine having an offensive line coach that could actually develop players. Harrison has regressed. Shocker, right? If only we had better development on the coaching staff. But it is what it is.
Bigsby and ETN are good. ETN should be given a 5th year option, and Bigsby should be the featured back next year. ETN can still break open and slice through the front 7. No need to cut bait on him.
There's talent on this roster in every position group. It's just that it's not being optimized.
(10-02-2024, 07:46 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2024, 07:38 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]Ahh you're right, the Chiefs keep going to the Superbowl because Mahomes and Kelce are both "above average players."
Outliers make horrible examples when you are trying to defend a narrative that contains failed logic.
If landing a generational QB that many are already calling the greatest ever were such a "great way to build a team" everyone would be doing it. But it's damn near impossible.
Everyone tries every year to draft or acquire players like that. Most of them fail way more often than they succeed. Which is why teams go after building block players with much of their capital and swing for the fences in measured doses trying to hit on their potential superstars.
Everyone IS trying to do it! There's a reason why 6 out of the 12 top draft picks were QBs.
But your previous point is that teams should build around above-average foundational players rather than stars. Don't you think that stars make the best foundational players? How does that make any sense? It's not like teams go into the draft or FA hoping and praying that their selection is just above-average.
NYC4jags Wrote:That's why the Jaguars could land the greatest GM on the planet and the greatest coach to work under him or with him this offseason, and the odds of them finding 2 superstars on par with Mahomes and Kelce would still be damn near those of me winning the lottery this week. Especially with the covid kids coming out in the draft next year.
You want to adopt a strategy of finding two guys like that to begin your team building, you better buckle up for a long [BLEEP] ride, pal. It might take you 20+ years to hit on your cornerstones and get your build off the ground.
This is the exact strategy that the Texans took! They had a great GM who hired a great HC, and then used his top two picks to get players with star potential, in Stroud and Anderson Jr. Those moves took a 3-13 team and turned them into a divisional winner.
So YES! that is the exact strategy that I'm taking.
(10-02-2024, 10:47 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2024, 07:46 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Outliers make horrible examples when you are trying to defend a narrative that contains failed logic.
If landing a generational QB that many are already calling the greatest ever were such a "great way to build a team" everyone would be doing it. But it's damn near impossible.
Everyone tries every year to draft or acquire players like that. Most of them fail way more often than they succeed. Which is why teams go after building block players with much of their capital and swing for the fences in measured doses trying to hit on their potential superstars.
Everyone IS trying to do it! There's a reason why 6 out of the 12 top draft picks were QBs.
But your previous point is that teams should build around above-average foundational players rather than stars. Don't you think that stars make the best foundational players? How does that make any sense? It's not like teams go into the draft or FA hoping and praying that their selection is just above-average.
NYC4jags Wrote:That's why the Jaguars could land the greatest GM on the planet and the greatest coach to work under him or with him this offseason, and the odds of them finding 2 superstars on par with Mahomes and Kelce would still be damn near those of me winning the lottery this week. Especially with the covid kids coming out in the draft next year.
You want to adopt a strategy of finding two guys like that to begin your team building, you better buckle up for a long [BLEEP] ride, pal. It might take you 20+ years to hit on your cornerstones and get your build off the ground.
This is the exact strategy that the Texans took! They had a great GM who hired a great HC, and then used his top two picks to get players with star potential, in Stroud and Anderson Jr. Those moves took a 3-13 team and turned them into a divisional winner.
So YES! that is the exact strategy that I'm taking.
The really, really obvious problem you keep ignoring and I keep repeating is that being able to hit on picks like that is insanely rare.
Of course everyone wants their picks to hit, but holy hell, do you have any inkling of how many first round QBs franchises miss on historically league wide??
Couldn't you look around the tinhorn roster right now and identify four or five guys that if they all or mostly were gone next year, it would set you back greatly? Those guys are building blocks, and they are the ones you set out to hit on more consistently while you hope your home run swings for superstars eventually pay off.
There's only 32 teams and every year nearly half of them would kill for just an above average QB. Please stop acting like it just so easy to run out and draft a top ten QB and then build around that.
Draft, Develop, Repeat.
There was a wise moderator that used to say that during the 2010s when things started going sideways for the first time.
The thing many moderators now forget is that there is this key word: "Develop"
If you can't draft talent, get rid of the GM. If you can't develop players, get rid of the coaches. If you can't do either. Start over again.
That dude was pretty wise. Kinda a jerk sometimes, but wise.
I miss that guy.
I'd say there are 10-12 QBs playing right now that are good enough to get into the playoffs and compete. Is it high risk, high reward? Sure. But "insanely rare" and "you hitting the lottery this week" is a large overstatement. As I have mentioned, why would six NFL teams try to take a QB at the top of the draft if it was so impossible?
But talking about QBs specifically is off subject from the original post. Building on star players as opposed to above-average ones is what you still need to address.
In terms of the Tinhorns:
QB CJ Stroud
OL Laremy Tunsil
DL Will Anderson
WR Nico Collins
CB Derek Stingley
These are stars (or on their way) and fundamental players that the team is/can be built around, all but Tunsil were drafted.
Are there other players that would be difficult to replace? Sure, but losing any of the above players would hurt the team way, way more.
(10-03-2024, 12:16 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say there are 10-12 QBs playing right now that are good enough to get into the playoffs and compete. Is it high risk, high reward? Sure. But "insanely rare" and "you hitting the lottery this week" is a large overstatement. As I have mentioned, why would six NFL teams try to take a QB at the top of the draft if it was so impossible?
But talking about QBs specifically is off subject from the original post. Building on star players as opposed to above-average ones is what you still need to address.
In terms of the Tinhorns:
QB CJ Stroud
OL Laremy Tunsil
DL Will Anderson
WR Nico Collins
CB Derek Stingley
These are stars (or on their way) and fundamental players that the team is/can be built around, all but Tunsil were drafted.
Are there other players that would be difficult to replace? Sure, but losing any of the above players would hurt the team way, way more.
You're aiding my point without realizing it apparently.
Let's get back to a fundamental aspect of this discussion.
Building.
Teams have certain years that are "rebuild years" and they occasionally have "blow it up and start over years" and then they have years where they are just in build/get better mode.
Whether you are beginning a rebuild or having a blow it up and start over year - your chances of landing superstars is slim.
Most teams in those situations will miss on a QB more often than they hit on one. For our argument - let's say it's a player that becomes a top ten QB within the period of his rookie deal. That concession aids your argument BTW.
How many teams out there do you think have spun their wheels for 6 years or more trying to draft a superstar or top ten QB only to miss on at least 2 of them?
What do you think the GMs did with the rest of their cap and draft capital during that period?
Hint: they went after building blocks positionally and took smaller swings (less expensive capital) on potential superstars at other positions.
The "insanely rare" and "lottery" quotes you are misrepresenting referred to your ridiculous outlier of building around Mahomes and Kielce. Now you are attempting to backpedal from that with "top ten of twelve QB"
Big difference
make up your mind
You may need to define superstar for us as you seem to have wheels under your goalposts now.
The fact of the matter is that every GM wants to land a superstar every offseason, but the unpredictability of it and the rarity of it means that GMs are often forced to begin and maintain a build in the absence of such game-changing players until they finally strike gold.
If you have no adaptive plan to build with lesser cornerstones and foundational pieces, then most of your building efforts are going to fail miserably until you strike a vein of treasures and lord only knows when that will happen.