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I like these conversations where we all learn something. Hopefully it doesn't decline into a name-calling quarrel.

(12-28-2024, 12:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 12:23 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Don't forget the Jones act. So a ship traveling between the East Coast of the US and west coast would fall under this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_M...ct_of_1920

Is it more expensive to own and operate a US flagged vessel, or less expensive?

My contacts at Crowley tell me it costs a bunch more. (brother-in-law)

(12-28-2024, 12:51 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 12:25 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Is it more expensive to own and operate a US flagged vessel, or less expensive?

My contacts at Crowley tell me it costs a bunch more. (brother-in-law)

So if more vessels choose to fly a US flag, does that mean more money is spent on shipping, or less?

(12-28-2024, 01:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 12:51 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]My contacts at Crowley tell me it costs a bunch more. (brother-in-law)

So if more vessels choose to fly a US flag, does that mean more money is spent on shipping, or less?

You are asking the wrong question.  The question should be “Is it more expensive to fly the US flag and get the US discount when traversing the Panama Canal?”

(12-28-2024, 12:29 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I like these conversations where we all learn something. Hopefully it doesn't decline into a name-calling quarrel.

Lol-Ggggaaaayyyeeeee

(12-28-2024, 03:13 PM)Thewitnessofsolinvictus Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 12:29 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I like these conversations where we all learn something. Hopefully it doesn't decline into a name-calling quarrel.

Lol-Ggggaaaayyyeeeee

Stow it, snot face!

(12-28-2024, 01:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 01:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So if more vessels choose to fly a US flag, does that mean more money is spent on shipping, or less?

You are asking the wrong question.  The question should be “Is it more expensive to fly the US flag and get the US discount when traversing the Panama Canal?”

Mike's question is usually, "How can I start an argument to get attention?"

The underlying issue is that the US market, the strongest in the world, is open to everyone but we make it more expensive for our own companies to do business here than we do foreign ones. We need to either force foreign interests to pay more or make it cheaper for domestic ones...I of course prefer the latter, but one way or the other we cannot continue on our current path.

(12-28-2024, 01:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 01:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So if more vessels choose to fly a US flag, does that mean more money is spent on shipping, or less?

You are asking the wrong question.  The question should be “Is it more expensive to fly the US flag and get the US discount when traversing the Panama Canal?”

Well, you're skipping ahead.  They would spend more money to follow our regulations, then spend less to cross the canal.  Is that less overall? Unclear.  And who benefits?

(12-28-2024, 06:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 01:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]You are asking the wrong question.  The question should be “Is it more expensive to fly the US flag and get the US discount when traversing the Panama Canal?”

Well, you're skipping ahead.  They would spend more money to follow our regulations, then spend less to cross the canal.  Is that less overall? Unclear.  And who benefits?

I know where are trying to lead the conversation and I cut you off is more like it.  The answer is I have no idea which way is more cost effective.  It doesn’t change my stance though.  If a US shipping company wants to get the benefits of reduced cost using the Panama Canal then flag your ships with the US flag.  If it’s less expensive to flag your ships with another country’s flag then shut up about the cost of using the canal.

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(12-28-2024, 04:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 01:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]You are asking the wrong question.  The question should be “Is it more expensive to fly the US flag and get the US discount when traversing the Panama Canal?”

Mike's question is usually, "How can I start an argument to get attention?"

The underlying issue is that the US market, the strongest in the world, is open to everyone but we make it more expensive for our own companies to do business here than we do foreign ones. We need to either force foreign interests to pay more or make it cheaper for domestic ones...I of course prefer the latter, but one way or the other we cannot continue on our current path.

This.  100%

(12-28-2024, 09:05 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 06:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Well, you're skipping ahead.  They would spend more money to follow our regulations, then spend less to cross the canal.  Is that less overall? Unclear.  And who benefits?

I know where are trying to lead the conversation and I cut you off is more like it.  The answer is I have no idea which way is more cost effective.  It doesn’t change my stance though.  If a US shipping company wants to get the benefits of reduced cost using the Panama Canal then flag your ships with the US flag.  If it’s less expensive to flag your ships with another country’s flag then shut up about the cost of using the canal.

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(12-28-2024, 04:36 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Mike's question is usually, "How can I start an argument to get attention?"

The underlying issue is that the US market, the strongest in the world, is open to everyone but we make it more expensive for our own companies to do business here than we do foreign ones. We need to either force foreign interests to pay more or make it cheaper for domestic ones...I of course prefer the latter, but one way or the other we cannot continue on our current path.

This.  100%

I agree!
But how does this save American consumers money?
Why should America start a fight with Panama? Will it make things cheaper?

(12-28-2024, 09:45 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 09:05 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]I know where are trying to lead the conversation and I cut you off is more like it.  The answer is I have no idea which way is more cost effective.  It doesn’t change my stance though.  If a US shipping company wants to get the benefits of reduced cost using the Panama Canal then flag your ships with the US flag.  If it’s less expensive to flag your ships with another country’s flag then shut up about the cost of using the canal.

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This.  100%

I agree!
But how does this save American consumers money?
Why should America start a fight with Panama? Will it make things cheaper?

Reduce the cost of shipping by $5 a ton or roughly 35% sounds like a good place to start.

(12-29-2024, 12:20 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 09:45 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree!
But how does this save American consumers money?
Why should America start a fight with Panama? Will it make things cheaper?

Reduce the cost of shipping by $5 a ton or roughly 35% sounds like a good place to start.

What would cause Panama to reduce the price of going through the canal?

(12-29-2024, 08:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2024, 12:20 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Reduce the cost of shipping by $5 a ton or roughly 35% sounds like a good place to start.

What would cause Panama to reduce the price of going through the canal?

I covered that earlier, incentives to Panama include a number of things from investment to reciprocation. Why are you afraid of negotiating? Why are you afraid of putting us first? Why are you afraid of our power and the leverage it gives us? Everyone else does it, why must we be the world's patsy?

(12-29-2024, 12:20 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-28-2024, 09:45 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree!
But how does this save American consumers money?
Why should America start a fight with Panama? Will it make things cheaper?

Reduce the cost of shipping by $5 a ton or roughly 35% sounds like a good place to start.

Reduce the cost for everyone?

(12-29-2024, 05:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2024, 12:20 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Reduce the cost of shipping by $5 a ton or roughly 35% sounds like a good place to start.

Reduce the cost for everyone?

Maybe, but specifically for us. It's past time we used American power for American benefit.

Or a bulk discount. Without doing the research, I would predict we are the heaviest user of the canal.

(12-29-2024, 10:06 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-29-2024, 08:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What would cause Panama to reduce the price of going through the canal?

I covered that earlier, incentives to Panama include a number of things from investment to reciprocation. Why are you afraid of negotiating? Why are you afraid of putting us first? Why are you afraid of our power and the leverage it gives us? Everyone else does it, why must we be the world's patsy?

Because he's been told his whole life by the MSM that it's something we can't do.