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Administrative hold until you make a positive ID.

The 5th does not protect you from a requirement to ID yourself. Illegal resisents are worthy of deportation, their very presence is criminal.

Quote:Here's a minor curveball: what if a person who appears to be of Central American descent is arrested for a minor crime but, through a convoluted series of events mostly involving the Fifth Amendment but also requiring the commission of a secondary crime, refuses to give any identifying information about themselves, or any residency status. Under the Fifth Amendment, we can't force that person to incriminate themselves, nor can a refusal to answer be considered an admission of guilt. DNA evidence would prove useless: the absence of that person in the "system" merely proves that they're not "in the system", not that they aren't here legally. Do you risk deporting an American citizen, or are they simply dinged for the sentence for their initial crime plus fabricating information to police?

 

I know, minimal chance at best of this ever happening, but it's an interesting hypothetical. I think you'd have to sentence them for their outstanding crimes then let them go.

 

The simple solution is to hold the person indefinitely, pending identification. It's possible that he/she could have an outstanding arrest warrant in another legal jurisdiction, hence the refusal to identify.

 

Deportation becomes a little complicated without any identifying information; to where do you deport the person?

 

There is a legal process to apply for readmission to the US following a deportation.

Quote:The fact of the matter is, there should be no restrictions on deporting and/or blocking re-entry of non-U.S. citizens.

 

As long as there is a clear standard, I'm okay.   But we can't just allow the government to arbitrarily decide these things.  

 

Illegal aliens, fine.   Deport them.   But what about tourists?   And what if the crime is a speeding ticket?  Think of it this way: if you were on vacation in France, and you got a ticket for speeding, would you feel okay about being deported and barred from re-entering France?   What if they just don't like your looks, or they find out you voted for Trump, so they deport you, and tell you you can't come back?  

 

I just want to know a little more about who would be deported from the United States, why they would be deported, and so on.   There has to be some standard other than, foreigner who breaks the law, or, as you put it, any foreigner at all.   That allows the government too much discretion.  

 

Who decides these things?   What rules are there?   You can't just say, "there should be no restriction" on ANY government power.  

Quote:Would you mind not editing my posts you colossal knob jockey?

Never edited a post in here. 

Imagine the colossal waste of deporting Shahid Khan over a speeding ticket.

 

C'mon guys, deporting ANY permanent resident over ANY violation is pretty stupid.

 

And for all you guys that think the government has too much power, and have been railing against said power since the inception of this forum, why do you choose this moment to grant the Feds this discretion?

Quote:The simple solution is to hold the person indefinitely, pending identification.

Except for that pesky Eighth Amendment.

Quote:Except for that pesky Eighth Amendment.

 

Yeah, you just never say anything to anyone and they have to let you go. 

Quote:Imagine the colossal waste of deporting Shahid Khan over a speeding ticket.

 

C'mon guys, deporting ANY permanent resident over ANY violation is pretty stupid.

 

And for all you guys that think the government has too much power, and have been railing against said power since the inception of this forum, why do you choose this moment to grant the Feds this discretion?

 

Shad is an illegal alien? Who knew?

Quote:Imagine the colossal waste of deporting Shahid Khan over a speeding ticket.


C'mon guys, deporting ANY permanent resident over ANY violation is pretty stupid.


And for all you guys that think the government has too much power, and have been railing against said power since the inception of this forum, why do you choose this moment to grant the Feds this discretion?

Enumerated pow.... Oh nevermind.

Quote:Shad is an illegal alien? Who knew?

Read the OP.

 

The man that was deported was a legal U.S. resident, just like Shad was for his first years in the States.  At the time, I believe you have to be a permanent resident 5 years before applying for naturalization.

 

By the way, I have no problem with deporting people convicted of something like attempted arson.  It's the less minor offences I am more concerned with.

 

And, as usual, I have no idea what the hell jj is talking about.

Quote:However, "residents" that break the law can be deported.  So you still haven't explained how that's a form of "punishment".

You must think America is an awful place if you don't think being deported is a punishment.

 

Ask yourself this. Why do you hate America?

Quote:Imagine the colossal waste of deporting Shahid Khan over a speeding ticket.

 

C'mon guys, deporting ANY permanent resident over ANY violation is pretty stupid.

 

And for all you guys that think the government has too much power, and have been railing against said power since the inception of this forum, why do you choose this moment to grant the Feds this discretion?

Shad Khan is not an illegal alien, what are you talking about?

Quote:Shad Khan is not an illegal alien, what are you talking about?

 

Et tu, TravC?

 

READ THE OP:

 

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/20...cmp=hplnws

 

Shad Khan legally immigrated to the U.S. and so did the man in the news article.  You can be a permanent resident of the United States without being a citizen.  Millions of people are, and they enjoy most of the benefits of citizenship aside from the right to vote or "enjoy" jury service.

 

Why doesn't anyone seem to know anything about the permanent resident status?

Quote:As long as there is a clear standard, I'm okay.   But we can't just allow the government to arbitrarily decide these things.  

 

Illegal aliens, fine.   Deport them.   But what about tourists?   And what if the crime is a speeding ticket?  Think of it this way: if you were on vacation in France, and you got a ticket for speeding, would you feel okay about being deported and barred from re-entering France?   What if they just don't like your looks, or they find out you voted for Trump, so they deport you, and tell you you can't come back?  

 

I just want to know a little more about who would be deported from the United States, why they would be deported, and so on.   There has to be some standard other than, foreigner who breaks the law, or, as you put it, any foreigner at all.   That allows the government too much discretion.  

 

Who decides these things?   What rules are there?   You can't just say, "there should be no restriction" on ANY government power.  

 

To answer your question, first of all I've been to France.  I certainly would never take a "vacation" there and they certainly don't need to deport me.  The only reason that I would ever go back to that country would be to pay my respects to the many U.S. service members that died on the beaches of Normandy... but that's a whole other topic.

 

The standard would be any non-U.S. person that breaks any law.  Article one of The Constitution pretty much grants that power.

 

Quote:Imagine the colossal waste of deporting Shahid Khan over a speeding ticket.

 

C'mon guys, deporting ANY permanent resident over ANY violation is pretty stupid.

 

And for all you guys that think the government has too much power, and have been railing against said power since the inception of this forum, why do you choose this moment to grant the Feds this discretion?

 

First of all, refer to my comment above as far as granting the power to the Federal Government.

 

Second, you must be realistic about it.  Shahid Khan became a citizen in 1991 so the law wouldn't apply to him.  Would somebody get deported because of a speeding ticket?  Probably not.  However, when the rules are tightened up, it makes some people think about what they are doing.

 

Quote:You must think America is an awful place if you don't think being deported is a punishment.

 

Ask yourself this. Why do you hate America?

 

Come on, I expect better than this from you.  If a foreigner is deported, then perhaps yes that might be considered "punishment" to them since they aren't U.S. citizens.  Don't give me this "you hate America" stuff.  I actually served my country and made some sacrifices for it.  What about you?

Jib, it's your tone, dude. You can disagree with people that have a different philosophy than you without seeing them all as the enemy and evil.


The tone you use makes it appear that you may not actually like the people and the country you live in.


I can totally relate to your desire to make sure future generations have a great country to grow up in. Liberals want that too. There is some common ground you should try to look for, it might help lighten up your rhetoric and tone...

Quote:Jib, it's your tone, dude. You can disagree with people that have a different philosophy than you without seeing them all as the enemy and evil.


The tone you use makes it appear that you may not actually like the people and the country you live in.


I can totally relate to your desire to make sure future generations have a great country to grow up in. Liberals want that too. There is some common ground you should try to look for, it might help lighten up your rhetoric and tone...

 

Well let me tell you what kid.  I don't mind the back-and-forth that some of us do here on the board, and I can take the personal stuff that you and others sometimes throw at me (I have pretty thick skin, even for an old guy).

 

However, I really don't like the direction that this country is taking.  We used to be a patriotic country with a "can do" attitude/spirit, but I'm watching my country lose that slowly.  My words or my "tone" may seem harsh at times, but you know what?  That's exactly what needs to be done with the younger generations today.

 

I post my point of view regarding topics, and I'm honest about it.  Sometimes I "cross the line" with the CoC, but it's really how I feel and how I look at things.  Other people can either agree or disagree with me and in the end, I really don't care.

 

Contrary to what you might believe, I do look at both sides when it comes to politics.  When I see something that is wrong according to my values and morals, I'll say as such.

 

The bottom line is this.  I accept people and their "tone" even if I disagree with them.  I certainly am not going to change my "tone" to make them feel better.  Further more, I will not accept anyone accusing me of "hating my country", especially if the person saying that has no idea what I have been through and has never served themselves.

 

I do agree with you that occasionally there is some common ground between liberals and conservatives, but there is also more cases where both ideologies are way off.  I refuse to "lighten up my rhetoric and tone" to appease any certain group.

Quote:To answer your question, first of all I've been to France. I certainly would never take a "vacation" there and they certainly don't need to deport me. The only reason that I would ever go back to that country would be to pay my respects to the many U.S. service members that died on the beaches of Normandy... but that's a whole other topic.


The standard would be any non-U.S. person that breaks any law. Article one of The Constitution pretty much grants that power.



First of all, refer to my comment above as far as granting the power to the Federal Government.


Second, you must be realistic about it. Shahid Khan became a citizen in 1991 so the law wouldn't apply to him. Would somebody get deported because of a speeding ticket? Probably not. However, when the rules are tightened up, it makes some people think about what they are doing.



Come on, I expect better than this from you. If a foreigner is deported, then perhaps yes that might be considered "punishment" to them since they aren't U.S. citizens. Don't give me this "you hate America" stuff. I actually served my country and made some sacrifices for it. What about you?

That was sarcasm obviously you don't hate America. Also, thank you for agreeing with me.

Quote:Well let me tell you what kid.  I don't mind the back-and-forth that some of us do here on the board, and I can take the personal stuff that you and others sometimes throw at me (I have pretty thick skin, even for an old guy).

 

However, I really don't like the direction that this country is taking.  We used to be a patriotic country with a "can do" attitude/spirit, but I'm watching my country lose that slowly.  My words or my "tone" may seem harsh at times, but you know what?  That's exactly what needs to be done with the younger generations today.

Quote:Jib, it's your tone, dude. You can disagree with people that have a different philosophy than you without seeing them all as the enemy and evil.

Pot... Kettle... You get the idea