It really was one of the worst overall drafts in quite some time.
As it relates, Werner was the 24th overall pick in that draft.
Yeah, I've said it many times that the majority of the league whiffed on that draft. I thought he had a pretty solid draft at the time, but hindsight is 20/20.
Very few teams got more than 2/3 starters. Unlucky draft to start your rebuild off with.
I think the new C- grade is still too high. I'd give it a solid D.
Quote:I think the new C- grade is still too high. I'd give it a solid D.
Prisco is higher on Joeckel than most it seems.
I don't think this is evidence in support of Caldwell at all.
Our team had a lot less talent than other teams in 2013. Regardless of the amount of talent available in the draft, if all teams made equally smart selections, the teams with less talent to begin with should have walked away with more starters. Some teams got 3 starters out of the draft. The Jags could easily have been one of them. Instead, our top three picks from 2013 are all about to lose their starting roles to new talent in 2016.
That said, Caldwell did much better in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 drafts, from what we can tell so far.
Yeah that draft was garbage. The only arguement you can make is that we should have selected Ansah over Joeckel. But you can't fix everything in one off-season. He's had success on the offensive side of the football through the draft. Now it's time to see if his defensive selections from this year and Fowler Jr. from last year were the right decisions. Caldwell isn't the problem here. It's the coaching. You can be a solid general manager and personnel selector but still have a bad hand when it comes to coaching choices. Bradley still has this year to show he's worth the patience. If it doesn't work out. Hopefully Caldwell can hit a homerun with his next hire.
Quote:I don't think this is evidence in support of Caldwell at all.
Our team had a lot less talent than other teams in 2013. Regardless of the amount of talent available in the draft, if all teams made equally smart selections, the teams with less talent to begin with should have walked away with more starters. Some teams got 3 starters out of the draft. The Jags could easily have been one of them. Instead, our top three picks from 2013 are all about to lose their starting roles to new talent in 2016.
That said, Caldwell did much better in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 drafts, from what we can tell so far.
Think about what you are saying.
If you go under the assumption the talent in the 2013 draft was lacking, then drafting from that pool, making equally smart selections as every other team, walking away with 3 plus starters from a poor talent pool wouldn't help the Jaguars at all. It would be the football equivalent of bailing out the Titanic with a coffee mug.
You could make guys from a bad talent pool starters all day long. It doesn't mean they will be quality starters, good enough to turn around the team's fortunes. You are exchanging bad for bad.
But even assuming each and every one of the picks from that draft were good players, without experience, a sufficient supporting cast and a QB, they still wouldn't be able to turn the team around by themselves.
It doesn't matter the end product looks amazing so even if I didn't like how he started the rebuild I'm happy with what we have today.
Quote:I don't think this is evidence in support of Caldwell at all.
Our team had a lot less talent than other teams in 2013. Regardless of the amount of talent available in the draft, if all teams made equally smart selections, the teams with less talent to begin with should have walked away with more starters. Some teams got 3 starters out of the draft. The Jags could easily have been one of them. Instead, our top three picks from 2013 are all about to lose their starting roles to new talent in 2016.
That said, Caldwell did much better in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 drafts, from what we can tell so far.
o.O
We had a lot less talent in 2013 because of what Gene did. Not because what Caldwell couldn't do.
HOWEVER...
he did let quite a few vets go that maybe could have made us a better team then....
I will say, this article doesn't really say "Caldwell is good because this draft was bad"
It's just "everyone had a bad draft"
And the teams in the mid teens and beyond had less "bust" potential picking where they were.
For Joker, even if he's been average to meh to bad, he still is a better selection than half the 1st rounders of that draft.
And allowed for us to move Monroe (who's been paid too much and injured too much) for draft selections that at least helped Caldwell have a very solid draft the following year.
A one year vacuum is a terrible way to judge a GM/HC/Player.
4 drafts in... and you gotta like what the man has done.
I dare anyone to show me a GM that has done it better in the past 4 offseasons.
Quote:
I will say, this article doesn't really say "Caldwell is good because this draft was bad"
It's just "everyone had a bad draft"
And the teams in the mid teens and beyond had less "bust" potential picking where they were.
For Joker, even if he's been average to meh to bad, he still is a better selection than half the 1st rounders of that draft.
And allowed for us to move Monroe (who's been paid too much and injured too much) for draft selections that at least helped Caldwell have a very solid draft the following year.
A one year vacuum is a terrible way to judge a GM/HC/Player.
4 drafts in... and you gotta like what the man has done.
I dare anyone to show me a GM that has done it better in the past 4 offseasons.
Hammer meet nail!
Quote:o.O
We had a lot less talent in 2013 because of what Gene did. Not because what Caldwell couldn't do.
HOWEVER...
he did let quite a few vets go that maybe could have made us a better team then....
I will say, this article doesn't really say "Caldwell is good because this draft was bad"
It's just "everyone had a bad draft"
And the teams in the mid teens and beyond had less "bust" potential picking where they were.
For Joker, even if he's been average to meh to bad, he still is a better selection than half the 1st rounders of that draft.
And allowed for us to move Monroe (who's been paid too much and injured too much) for draft selections that at least helped Caldwell have a very solid draft the following year.
A one year vacuum is a terrible way to judge a GM/HC/Player.
4 drafts in... and you gotta like what the man has done.
I dare anyone to show me a GM that has done it better in the past 4 offseasons.
Preach
Pretty much everybody he drafted in 2013 was gonna get 2 seasons worth of starts, and they did. Lots of games started, no stars found, nobody worth a 2nd contract found. But I give Dave a pass, because he's a personnel guy and he was using somebody else's personnel dept, and the talent just wasn't there.
Wasn't Caldwell using notes from Gene's Scouts the first year and then replaced everyone after the draft?
Quote:Wasn't Caldwell using notes from Gene's Scouts the first year and then replaced everyone after the draft?
yep
The way Dave has draft the last 3 years I think if he had his scouts he has now and not Genes like in this draft, I think he would of took Ansah and had a much better draft. It's night and day. You are who you hang with
Caldwell is the best "draft pick" we have made in team history.. Thanks to Khan!
Now,, hopefully it doesn't go to his head until we have the Lombardi trophy .. all else is short of the mark. Period..
Quote:Wasn't Caldwell using notes from Gene's Scouts the first year and then replaced everyone after the draft?
Quote:yep
I'm pretty sure Dave retained a majority of the scouts. Anyways our scouts have always been highly regarded, Gene just didn't use them correctly and he fell in love with a bunch of small school players.
Quote:Think about what you are saying.
If you go under the assumption the talent in the 2013 draft was lacking, then drafting from that pool, making equally smart selections as every other team, walking away with 3 plus starters from a poor talent pool wouldn't help the Jaguars at all. It would be the football equivalent of bailing out the Titanic with a coffee mug.
You could make guys from a bad talent pool starters all day long. It doesn't mean they will be quality starters, good enough to turn around the team's fortunes. You are exchanging bad for bad.
But even assuming each and every one of the picks from that draft were good players, without experience, a sufficient supporting cast and a QB, they still wouldn't be able to turn the team around by themselves.
OK, I grant you that. The basic fact is that going into 2016, our team expects to get much less contribution from its 2013 draft class than other teams will. There are two possible conclusions:
(1) Dave's picks in 2013 were significantly less smart than the picks made by other teams, or,
(2) The subsequent pickups Dave has made, both in the draft and in free agency, since 2013, are significantly better than those made by other teams.
While each conclusion, alone, is an adequate explanation of the situation, it is possible that both are true. And I do think both are true. He could have done a lot better in 2013, but, few have done better, from 2014 to now, than Dave Caldwell.