Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Let me make it clear that I didn't say Jordy Nelson wasn't a good WR.


I'm not scared of him against this defense. This defense is going to be significantly better this season.


Save your time telling me about the rookies and taking time to adjust.


Simply adding Gipson and Malik Jackson with a healthy Marks makes this defense noticeably better. Add Fowler, Ramsey, Jack, Yannick, Day, another year of experience for Telvin....We aren't going to be bottom feeders any longer. This team is now talented enough on both sides of the ball to be a contender.


Another year of experience in this offense for Bortles, Yeldon, Hurns, JT, ARob, Cann, a returning Linder, a solid addition in Ivory, when healthy a quite good OL in Beachum, Greene and hopefully a healthy Lee...


It's time to shine, folks.

Quote:Let me make it clear that I didn't say Jordy Nelson wasn't a good WR.


I'm not scared of him against this defense. This defense is going to be significantly better this season.


Save your time telling me about the rookies and taking time to adjust.


Simply adding Gipson and Malik Jackson with a healthy Marks makes this defense noticeably better. Add Fowler, Ramsey, Jack, Yannick, Day, another year of experience for Telvin....We aren't going to be bottom feeders any longer. This team is now talented enough on both sides of the ball to be a contender.


Another year of experience in this offense for Bortles, Yeldon, Hurns, JT, ARob, Cann, a returning Linder, a solid addition in Ivory, when healthy a quite good OL in Beachum, Greene and hopefully a healthy Lee...


It's time to shine, folks.

 

 

Let's assume two things for the purposes of this discussion:

 

1)  Despite his accomplishments and abilities as a WR, Jordy Nelson is not the second coming of Randy Moss; and

2) Because Ramsey is a rookie, he can't possibly cover Nelson man to man.

 

There IS such a thing as safety help over the top.  Gipson is certainly capable of helping to bracket Jordy Nelson in those instances where Ramsey is on him, right?

 

This would leave the remaining receivers in single coverage.  Certainly you concede House and Amukumara can handle the remaining Packer receivers one on one..right? 


After all, if these guys were so great, there would have been minimal drop off when Nelson went down...right?

 

Here were the Packers receiving numbers from last year.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/te...b/2015.htm

 

As you can see, Cobb caught a lot of balls, but for only 10.5 a catch.

 

Davante Adams and James Jones caught 50 each, with Adams averaging <10 ypc.  Jones averaged 17.8 YPC, but he is currently unsigned and 32.

 

Make no mistake, that Packers offense is capable of some amazing things as long as Rodgers is their QB.  Furthermore, until our defense gels, they are capable of making costly mental errors.  But the Packers are NOT indefensible to this team.  Nelson has a lot of savvy, and his return will help the Packers this year, but it's no stretch to say he won't be the same guy.  He'll be 31 by the end of this month.  Even without the ACL, that's an age where decline could start to creep in.  On top of that, he would be barely a year removed from a torn ACL. (Lest anyone think I'm being a homer here, I know Fowler is returning from an ACL as well.  But he will have had an additional four months to heal from his injury by the season opener.)  Finally, there is a reason why Ramsey was a consensus top 5 pick in this draft-a strong defensive draft.  He is a world class athlete with good size to boot.  He's inexperienced, but he has the physical attributes to make him a formidable cover corner.

Quote:Good QB's historically carve us up...Hopefully we can change that trend opening day.. GO JAGS.

 

Unfortunately it's not just "good QBs" who have been carving us up as of lately, it's mediocre QBs, below average QBs and even worse, we have been carved up by 2nd string QBs, journeymen QBs and rookie QBs too. UGH!!!!!!!!

 

That ENDS this year, at least it should......................................................................................................................I hope.

 

Come on Gus, a lot of Jags fans are counting on you to have a great season with all the new players you have on defense.

 

Make the ones who doubt you change their mind about your ability as a HC.

 

Come on Gus "WE WANT MORE"

Quote:Imagine not being worried about a top 10 receiver the last 4 years


Imagine basing your assesment on box stats and not on actual game tape

What game tape do you have that shows Nelson can still separate deep at age 31 barely a year from ACL surgery against a prospect like Ramsey?

Quote:What's equally funny to me is the guys who praise Caldwell for his drafting genius, but don't think the the player he took at 5 to be a #1 corner capable of limiting a recovering Nelson.

Exactly.

 

The Jaguars have never had a CB as physically talented as Ramsey, and this is coming from a huge Rashean Mathis fan.

Quote:What's equally funny to me is the guys who praise Caldwell for his drafting genius, but don't think the the player he took at 5 to be a #1 corner capable of limiting a recovering Nelson.

the guy got burned multiple times in college when playing corner on the outside which is where Nelson played. He seemed like every game he was getting beat for a TD or 2. Not to say he cant get better because he has the the athletic ability but if he doesnt he will find himself the starting SS which I can see happening.

Well, if we're going to win football games this year. We need to get this done at home to convince the majority of the fanbase. I'll say we win 20 to 17 with us taking the lead late in the 4th quarter and Fowler Jr. sealing the victory with a sack on Rodgers on 4th and impossible with less than 2:00 minutes in regulation. 

Quote:What game tape do you have that shows Nelson can still separate deep at age 31 barely a year from ACL surgery against a prospect like Ramsey?

Well in fairness by that argument what game tape do you have of Ramsey covering a good WR in the NFL?

Quote:Well in fairness by that argument what game tape do you have of Ramsey covering a good WR in the NFL?

you can go find multiple game tape where Ramsey is getting TDs scored on him by average college receivers. I just hope he improves on the outside. I could see mid season Ramsey taking Cyps spot at SS and making a huge impact

Quote:the guy got burned multiple times in college when playing corner on the outside which is where Nelson played. He seemed like every game he was getting beat for a TD or 2. Not to say he cant get better because he has the the athletic ability but if he doesnt he will find himself the starting SS which I can see happening.

That's your indication we should be worried about a 31 year old receiver coming back from an acl?


Corners get burned. Also, he will be coming to a new defensive scheme that utilizes long, rangy corners specifically. This is literally a dream pick for Bradley.


Not saying Nelson will have zero catches and that shouldn't be the expectation. Let him progress into the corner he will be.


Leading up to the draft you didn't seem very interested in the Jags selecting him. I took it as you really liking your guy. Now it's starting to look like a UF bias. Can't remember if you thought Hargreaves was in the same class as Ramsey.


We want Ramsey to be the type corner we think he is, it's key to turning things around for the organization. We all want that.

Also, Ramsey is not moving to SS. Sorry. Caldwell uses top 5 picks on premium positions.

Quote:Also, Ramsey is not moving to SS. Sorry. Caldwell uses top 5 picks on premium positions.

I want Ramsey to be an elite number 1 corner more than anyone. Be he has to improve a lot from when he played outside corner last year. He was at his best when he played in the slot and around the los, moving around, and blitzing the qb. If Ramsey isnt playing that good on the outside and Cyp plays like he usually does I can see Gus playing Ramsey at SS. Then the secondary would have no weakness. I think he could be an all pro at SS and SS is a very important position for this defense. With his athleticism, I think the the couod become one of if not the best SS in the league. He will have to improve a lot on the outside to cover the top WRs in the NFL. I as much as anyone would love forthe guy to become an elite corner though

Quote:I want Ramsey to be an elite number 1 corner more than anyone. Be he has to improve a lot from when he played outside corner last year. He was at his best when he played in the slot and around the los, moving around, and blitzing the qb. If Ramsey isnt playing that good on the outside and Cyp plays like he usually does I can see Gus playing Ramsey at SS. Then the secondary would have no weakness. I think he could be an all pro at SS and SS is a very important position for this defense. With his athleticism, I think the the couod become one of if not the best SS in the league. He will have to improve a lot on the outside to cover the top WRs in the NFL. I as much as anyone would love forthe guy to become an elite corner though

For any defensive scheme 43, 34, ect., the first thing coveted is athleticism. We've got that in spades. Let me preface this by saying I DO NOT think Ramsey is Charles Woodson. Once Ramsey gets acclimated to corner, I think you will see some of those things you've mentioned as far as moving to slot and rover and blitzing. He has the skill-set. The same as Woodson early with the Raiders and packers before moving full time to FS.

Quote:For any defensive scheme 43, 34, ect., the first thing coveted is athleticism. We've got that in spades. Let me preface this by saying I DO NOT think Ramsey is Charles Woodson. Once Ramsey gets acclimated to corner, I think you will see some of those things you've mentioned as far as moving to slot and rover and blitzing. He has the skill-set. The same as Woodson early with the Raiders and packers before moving full time to FS.

I think you have it backwards, I think we see him playing more slot and moving around a bit early unless he just got a lot better during the summer

Quote:you can go find multiple game tape where Ramsey is getting TDs scored on him by average college receivers. I just hope he improves on the outside. I could see mid season Ramsey taking Cyps spot at SS and making a huge impact

 

 

Me too. Ramsey has the size for SS and would likely by a Pro Bowler at the position.

Quote:Also, Ramsey is not moving to SS. Sorry. Caldwell uses top 5 picks on premium positions.

 

 

For one, you don't know. Caldwell said he was him to concentrate on corner first to get acclimated to the league, and then he'll try moving him around some. For another, some of the league's best players have been Safeties Tell Ronnie Lott that he didn't play a premium position.


 

I would hope the team isn't limited to following rules like "he has to play a premium spot." I'd much rather see the team doing whatever it takes to get the best 11 players on the field where they can all be most effective.

I only hope that no Jaguars are injured in PreSeason or during the season (if that is possible)...

 

the result of the game is pure entertainment.

Quote:For one, you don't know. Caldwell said he was him to concentrate on corner first to get acclimated to the league, and then he'll try moving him around some. For another, some of the league's best players have been Safeties Tell Ronnie Lott that he didn't play a premium position.


I would hope the team isn't limited to following rules like "he has to play a premium spot." I'd much rather see the team doing whatever it takes to get the best 11 players on the field where they can all be most effective.

agree 100%

Quote:I think you have it backwards, I think we see him playing more slot and moving around a bit early unless he just got a lot better during the summer

The key is you don't think he is ready to start at outside corner. If he plays even at the same level as Prince, they will start him. They took him top 5 to be a #1 corner, not a project with corner potential. Anything else is the very definition of backwards.

Quote:For one, you don't know. Caldwell said he was him to concentrate on corner first to get acclimated to the league, and then he'll try moving him around some. For another, some of the league's best players have been Safeties Tell Ronnie Lott that he didn't play a premium position.



If you read 3 posts up, you echo my sentiments regarding corner being first before moving on to other positions. I even listed an example of a player who had done it before (although not the first and certainly not the last) in Charles Woodson. I don't know if you don't realize we share the same position or not. This first statement almost seemed as though you thought you were saying something to the contrary.

I would hope the team isn't limited to following rules like "he has to play a premium spot." I'd much rather see the team doing whatever it takes to get the best 11 players on the field where they can all be most effective.

As far as "limited to following rules", you say I don't know. I'm simply following the pattern he has followed with his top 5 picks. LT QB DE and now CB. But maybe he did buck tradition and decided to experiment with a top 5 player in what has been seen as a year he could get fired for disappointing results.