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Quote:So 6 LTs drafted...one of which is a good RT, one good OG, and 4 severe disappointments/busts?

 

So 4 DE's drafted... one of which is a good DE, one injured, and 2 severe disappointments/busts?

Quote:You don't think that maybe... Those teams didn't expect those LTs to be severe disappointments...do you?


All of them were drafted as LTs to be LTs.

You're right, the point is the theory not the actual players.

 

LT is not as imporant as in the past because pass rushes have become far more creative and exotic. The days of Tony Boselli lining up across from Jason Taylor or Bruce Smith for 70 snaps a game is over. Bruce would be lining up across from both tackles, and even kicking inside on obvious pass rush downs, frequently now. 

 

In addition to that, as Markulous said, teams are spending the majority of games in shotgun now. Slow developing 5-7 step drops are dinosaurs now. Interior pressure importance is rising while exterior is falling. Not that all of it isn't important still, but it's becoming far more balanced than it used to. 

Quote:You're right, the point is the theory not the actual players.


LT is not as imporant as in the past because pass rushes have become far more creative and exotic. The days of Tony Boselli lining up across from Jason Taylor or Bruce Smith for 70 snaps a game is over. Bruce would be lining up across from both tackles, and even kicking inside on obvious pass rush downs, frequently now.


In addition to that, as Markulous said, teams are spending the majority of games in shotgun now. Slow developing 5-7 step drops are dinosaurs now. Interior pressure importance is rising while exterior is falling. Not that all of it isn't important still, but it's becoming far more balanced than it used to.

Lol no. Just no. Interior pressure is rising and exterior is falling? Wth are you talking about? That was the biggest nonsense post I've ever read. Again, wouldn't that make LTs not be so heavily picked in the top 5, and guards/ centers more abundant?


You're trying way too hard dude.

Bosa over Tunsil for this team.

Quote:Lol no. Just no. Interior pressure is rising and exterior is falling? Wth are you talking about? That was the biggest nonsense post I've ever read. Again, wouldn't that make LTs not be so heavily picked in the top 5, and guards/ centers more abundant?


You're trying way too hard dude.

All that it means is the body type/traits it takes to play LT is harder to find than at guard. It doesn't mean the position is more important. It's not hard at all to find experts who believe C is the most important position on the line. 

 

And yes, interior pressure is absolutely more important than exterior pressure. It's far more disruptive. No one should disagree with that...

Quote:All that it means is the body type/traits it takes to play LT is harder to find than at guard. It doesn't mean the position is more important. It's not hard at all to find experts who believe C is the most important position on the line.


And yes, interior pressure is absolutely more important than exterior pressure. It's far more disruptive. No one should disagree with that...

Von Miller and Ware were let loose because Jackson and Wolfe were always coming up the middle.

Quote:All that it means is the body type/traits it takes to play LT is harder to find than at guard. It doesn't mean the position is more important. It's not hard at all to find experts who believe C is the most important position on the line.


And yes, interior pressure is absolutely more important than exterior pressure. It's far more disruptive. No one should disagree with that...

Like NFL Network writer Bucky Brooks?

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000503855/article/ranking-each-positions-importance-from-quarterback-to-returner'>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000503855/article/ranking-each-positions-importance-from-quarterback-to-returner</a>


Nope, he doesn't think that.


What about Bruce Smith, Bruce Arians, and Mike Mayock?

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000099838/Is-left-tackle-still-the-most-important-O-line-position'>http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000099838/Is-left-tackle-still-the-most-important-O-line-position</a>


Nope, even after acknowledging the mismatches defenses are coming up with, they still think LT is the most important.


If "no one should disagree" about interior pressure, where are all these high paid/ drafted guards/ centers, and why aren't they as abundant as highly paid/ drafted LTs?


BTW... I couldn't find any of your experts that aren't "hard to find" saying that center is the most important olineman, is there anything you can reference to back this up?


***edit*** Also, last year there was 1 guard and 1 center selected in the first round, compared to 5 LTs.

Quote:For decades, old-school thinkers like Parcells and former Colts president Bill Polian considered quarterback, left tackle and pass rusher to be the "holy trinity" of team building. Now the argument can be made that the correlation between victories and elite left tackles no longer exists. "When coaches talk about position hierarchy, left tackle isn't among the top few anymore," an AFC team exec says. "Now it's QB, pass rusher, cornerback, wide receiver. A guy like Joe Thomas shows that a great left tackle isn't nearly sufficient."


.......


Meanwhile, to counter quick-strike passing attacks, defenses like the Giants' and Ravens' have started to take a shorter, more direct path to the quarterback by overloading pressure up the middle, which places more value on guards and centers.


.....


In the end, the importance of protecting the quarterback hasn't diminished; it's just that the responsibility and rewards are now more evenly distributed across all five O-linemen. "It used to be you found a great left tackle and built the rest of it from there," Savage says. "Now, because of defenses, you'd better be solid across the entire line. Instead of the super-elite left tackle, it's about five men who block well in a system. You could write a whole book about how the spread offense has impacted the NFL game."

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9114874/st-louis-rams-lt-jake-long-path-proves-demise-left-tackle-espn-magazine'>http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9114874/st-louis-rams-lt-jake-long-path-proves-demise-left-tackle-espn-magazine</a>


It's time to wake up and move into the modern NFL.

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9114874/st-louis-rams-lt-jake-long-path-proves-demise-left-tackle-espn-magazine'>http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9114874/st-louis-rams-lt-jake-long-path-proves-demise-left-tackle-espn-magazine</a>


It's time to wake up and move into the modern NFL.

Where does it say that guards and centers are more important than LT? All it says is that more value has been placed on guards and centers, yet there are only 2 in the top 10 highest paid OLineman.


It says that you need a solid OLine across the board instead of one premier LT.


Lol sorry, that's been the case for a while now.

Quote:The answer lies in the fact that it has become chic to say that the left tackle is the second-most-important position in football, behind only quarterback. This makes you sound smart. Open-minded. You're lauding the once-underappreciated 300-pounders who do the dirty work. But you're also just plain wrong.



.....


But consider: Lewis's theory was based on an old NFL. He told his story through the prism of the 1980s, when the likes of Lawrence Taylor menaced quarterbacks who often lined up directly under center and took seven-step drop-backs. Thirty-odd years later, that QB spends 75% of his time in the shotgun, where he almost immediately has a much wider scope of vision; if he's righthanded, he sees the full right side of the field and almost all of the left. There is no "blind side" anymore. Yesterday's seven-step drops are now more like five-step drops, but most QBs don't even hold the ball that long. Quick strikes have become the norm; the best passers often throw in 2.5 seconds or less. Many times, even if a wide-aligned defensive end goes completely untouched by the left tackle, he still can't reach the QB in time.


....


More than ever, defenses generate pass-rushing pressure through disguised fronts, stunts, twists or blitzes—and most of those focus on isolating and exploiting an O-line's weakest link. A solid left tackle is still valuable, but as a pass protector he's not much more valuable than any of his fellow O-linemen.


.....


Tellingly, recent Super Bowl winners haven't invested heavily in left tackles. While roughly 65% of today's NFL teams employ a former first-rounder at the position, only four of the past 14 champions did so. (Tarik Glenn for the 2006 Colts; Bryant McKinnie for the '12 Ravens, and by then he was a veteran journeyman after being drafted by the Vikings; Russell Okung for the '13 Seahawks; and Nate Solder, who had a very up-and-down season for the '14 Patriots.) Other data suggest that standout left tackles don't translate to wins. Since '07, 15 out of 32 left tackles who were voted first- or second-team All-Pro have played for clubs with losing records. (To be fair, the Browns' Joe Thomas skews these numbers a bit.)


.....


It was once wise to invest heavily in left tackles. But in today's NFL—where balls are thrown quickly, quarterbacks are vigorously monitored for safety by officials and so many formations involve the shotgun—the smart money should go elsewhere.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/16/left-tackle-value'>http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/16/left-tackle-value</a>


This isn't your father's football league any longer.

Quote:If "no one should disagree" about interior pressure, where are all these high paid/ drafted guards/ centers, and why aren't they as abundant as highly paid/ drafted LTs?


BTW... I couldn't find any of your experts that aren't "hard to find" saying that center is the most important olineman, is there anything you can reference to back this up?


***edit*** Also, last year there was 1 guard and 1 center selected in the first round, compared to 5 LTs.

You reeeeeally don't get it. Let's just make it as simple as possible, since all you are doing is moving the goal posts every time I make a point.

 

If you are a bad team and want to win, you don't do it by picking a left tackle with one of your extremely valuable top 10 picks. 

Quote:Von Miller and Ware were let loose because Jackson and Wolfe were always coming up the middle.

I mean, it's not as black and white as that...it's just that interior pressure comes faster, is right in their face, and is harder to escape than edge pressure. 

Quote:You reeeeeally don't get it. Let's just make it as simple as possible, since all you are doing is moving the goal posts every time I make a point.


If you are a bad team and want to win, you don't do it by picking a left tackle with one of your extremely valuable top 10 picks.

Lol k.


If you're a bad team and want to win, what position do you take?

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9114874/st-louis-rams-lt-jake-long-path-proves-demise-left-tackle-espn-magazine'>http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9114874/st-louis-rams-lt-jake-long-path-proves-demise-left-tackle-espn-magazine</a>


It's time to wake up and move into the modern NFL.

Yea... All that says is that more value has been placed on interior lineman, and that you need a solid OLine across the board to be succsessful, and not just one premier LT. No where does it say guards and centers are more important.


Sorry if you thought this was groundbreaking information.

Quote:Lol k.


If you're a bad team and want to win, what position do you take?

QB above all obviously, but after that you get pass rushers, wide receivers, corners, and safeties. And occasionally if a linebacker with Keuchly or Myles Jack's coverage skills come out you can take them. 

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/16/left-tackle-value'>http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/16/left-tackle-value</a>


This isn't your father's football league any longer.

You mean your fathers football any longer than the days when they used to run 35 times a game?


Yeah LT not as valuable. What a joke.


Just because the LTs that have come out the past couple years suck doesn't mean the position isn't as valuable.

Quote:QB above all obviously, but after that you get pass rushers, wide receivers, corners, and safeties. And occasionally if a linebacker with Keuchly or Myles Jack's coverage skills come out you can take them.

Are you talking about winning as soon as possible? Yea, highly unlikely to have that highly performing of a rookie QB in year one.


Are you talking about rebuilding? Like when Dave Caldwell took LJ his first year?


WRs more valuable than LTs? Good god man.

Quote:Lol k.


If you're a bad team and want to win, what position do you take?

Seriously? Did you not watch the SB?


It's QBs and pass rushers. Oher and some random dude started at OT for those teams. You don't need stud tackles but you need your OLine to work in sync. Beachum and Luke will be fine for this team moving forward. Bosa will have more of an impact.

Quote:Seriously? Did you not watch the SB?


It's QBs and pass rushers. Oher and some random dude started at OT for those teams. You don't need stud tackles but you need your OLine to work in sync. Beachum and Luke will be fine for this team moving forward. Bosa will have more of an impact.

The Super Bowl is a terrible example. The Panthers got their [BLEEP] kicked because their tackles were trash. Imagine if they had good ones.

Quote:WRs more valuable than LTs? Good god man.

Absofrigginlutely yes. Not even close.