You can't compare the premiums for an exchange plan to true catastrophic coverage. That cost would be way down.
As for the concierge plan that eliminates the 1000 you would pay at the emergency room for stitches all co pays etc.
I this is a natural progression by care providers to offset the cost and delays associated with traditional health insurance. You can't give obamacare credit for that.
Quote:I this is a natural progression by care providers to offset the cost and delays associated with traditional health insurance. You can't give obamacare credit for that.
Yes you can, and most do... the aca has a clause allowing it...
Plus with the expanded coverage and mandate for insurance, there are now openings for concierge service that wasn't there before.
Since Obama case the number of these types of services had skyrocketed.
At the end of the day, it's not a plan that can be feasible as a national policy...
Even if the catastrophic plan comes down to say 100 a month, how much am I now paying for prescription drug issuance?
Seriously, it's the same cost if not more, in my estimation.
At current on the bronze level (least expensive) I would pay 250 a month roughly with a 6000 deductible. I remember walking out of blue cross thinking screw u fine me. That means a supplemental 500 a month for my on care. A concierge practice would only cost me 100.
What we propose is a hybridization where the insurer has the same risk dump for primary care (the deductible) if the insured has a concierge plan. That's 400 a month in real dollars and infinitely greater value based on the concierge model and the insurer can still cover scripts or the care provider can provide them at a discount.
Also, the 250 can further be cut because under that system they would be responsible for 100% of doctor visits and emergency care after the deductible. This gets cut out. You should also be able to customize insurance plans. I don't take drugs. No need to pay for addiction counseling. No history of mental illness. No need for mental health. In male, no need for prenatal care etc. Etc.
The more diverse the risks that have to be insured the more complex and expensive the bureaucracy, and the higher the premiums.
Also, concierge practices are relatively new. Their growth corresponds to their increasing availability. Just bevaude the government didn't outlaw it doesn't mean it gets to take credit for innovation.
Last point, as I have stated before Social Security was created While open ended investment companies, or mutual funds, we're still in their infancy. This may turn out to be the single greatest Actuarial mistake in the history of History. Let's not make another.
At current on the bronze level (least expensive) I would pay 250 a month roughly with a 6000 deductible. I remember walking out of blue cross thinking screw u fine me. That means a supplemental 500 a month for my on care. A concierge practice would only cost me 100.
What we propose is a hybridization where the insurer has the same risk dump for primary care (the deductible) if the insured has a concierge plan. That's 400 a month in real dollars and infinitely greater value based on the concierge model and the insurer can still cover scripts or the care provider can provide them at a discount.
Also, the 250 can further be cut because under that system they would be responsible for 100% of doctor visits and emergency care after the deductible. This gets cut out. You should also be able to customize insurance plans. I don't take drugs. No need to pay for addiction counseling. No history of mental illness. No need for mental health. In male, no need for prenatal care etc. Etc.
The more diverse the risks that have to be insured the more complex and expensive the bureaucracy, and the higher the premiums.
Also, concierge practices are relatively new. Their growth corresponds to their increasing availability. Just bevaude the government didn't outlaw it doesn't mean it gets to take credit for innovation.
Last point, as I have stated before Social Security was created While open ended investment companies, or mutual funds, we're still in their infancy. This may turn out to be the single greatest Actuarial mistake in the history of History. Let's not make another.
Concierge service has been around a while, it only became viable because of Obama care...
So this 400 a month you predict, is that just for you, or for your family?
As for social security, start a thread on it. There's already too much here to add another topic
Quote:Concierge service has been around a while, it only became viable because of Obama care...
So this 400 a month you predict, is that just for you, or for your family?
As for social security, start a thread on it. There's already too much here to add another topic
The mid 90s isn't that long. Traditional healthcare has been entrenched since the second world war. Over time practices have become dependent on it. It will take time for a competing structure of risk management to filter through the system.
Aside from not outlawing it you have yet to give a shred of evidence to support the idea that obamacare did anything to directly bolster concierge practices. Are they on the exchanges and i just missed them?
Direct pay to care providers can save tons of real dollars in both premiums and out of pocket expenses for everyone. If going to the Er cost 1500 for stitches and your primary care doctor can just squeeze you in for free between patients that's real money for the insurer and the insured out of pocket expenses.
The problem with debates on. Health care is that too often they focus solely on premiums and not on the underlying cost of providing care. This would be moving to a much more efficient and inexpensive means of providing care for families and would relieve the burden on the insurance system and a lot of emergency room visits.
Is it perfect? Nothings perfect. But it moves a long way towards efficient management of risk.
As for the national old age survivor and disability program there's not enough to start a thread about. The feds made a decision based on a 19th century understanding of the capital markets and the private sector beat it to a pulp demoralized it and watched it steam off towards bankruptcy. Nothing else to really talk about.
No, I did... I'm heading to physical therapy, but I'll link the articles I found.
In 20 years this concierge thing was on outlier for the rich. Only after Obama care did it begin to gain traction... I mean, it's elementary, my dear Watson...
But I'll post some links from my Google search when I was researching it thus morning...
Yeah similar time periods imply causality.
And that's a lot of defending of s law u don't support that will collapse on itself in a year.
Quote:No, I did... I'm heading to physical therapy, but I'll link the articles I found.
In 20 years this concierge thing was on outlier for the rich. Only after Obama care did it begin to gain traction... I mean, it's elementary, my dear Watson...
But I'll post some links from my Google search when I was researching it thus morning...
Concierge is just private Capitation. The issue is that Medicare makes it impossible to be non par because your patients don't have access to downstream care. Therefore the whole Concierge scheme can't work without some kind of other insurance for specialty care and hospitalization (and lab, xray, PT, pharmacy, Home health and any other health care service beyond your primary care doc).
Notice how it went from its too expensive it will never work to "well u should really thank obama"
Quote:The mid 90s isn't that long. Traditional healthcare has been entrenched since the second world war. Over time practices have become dependent on it. It will take time for a competing structure of risk management to filter through the system.
Aside from not outlawing it you have yet to give a shred of evidence to support the idea that obamacare did anything to directly bolster concierge practices. Are they on the exchanges and i just missed them?
Direct pay to care providers can save tons of real dollars in both premiums and out of pocket expenses for everyone. If going to the Er cost 1500 for stitches and your primary care doctor can just squeeze you in for free between patients that's real money for the insurer and the insured out of pocket expenses.
The problem with debates on. Health care is that too often they focus solely on premiums and not on the underlying cost of providing care. This would be moving to a much more efficient and inexpensive means of providing care for families and would relieve the burden on the insurance system and a lot of emergency room visits.
Is it perfect? Nothings perfect. But it moves a long way towards efficient management of risk.
As for the national old age survivor and disability program there's not enough to start a thread about. The feds made a decision based on a 19th century understanding of the capital markets and the private sector beat it to a pulp demoralized it and watched it steam off towards bankruptcy. Nothing else to really talk about.
That's part of the problem. Health insurance should be just that...
INSURANCE. It's not supposed to take care of routine and/or minor things. It's supposed to be there in the case of a catastrophic event, the same as car insurance or home owner's insurance. After all, car insurance doesn't pay for oil changes and home owner's insurance doesn't pay for pressure washing. Those are MAINTENANCE things that need to be done.
How about allowing people to put money into a Health Savings Account that is TAX FREE in order to pay for routine medical needs? Then the person can purchase a health INSURANCE plan to cover a catastrophic event such as an accident or unexpected ailment? Oh wait....
How about getting rid of the employer mandate and allowing people to get their insurance on their own? You know, that would probably bump wages just a bit higher and relieve some of the burden off of employers. Nah... what am I thinking? We can't let individuals determine their needs for themselves... we need to make employers do that for them. After all, people are too dumb to take care of their needs on their own. We need an employer to take that responsibility from them. The new IPhone is out...
Quote:Notice how it went from its too expensive it will never work to "well u should really thank obama"
He's right, though. There's a reason why the majority of Americans don't like Obamacare*. After the ACA, the deductibles for employer-provided insurance skyrocketed. People with jobs were screwed by the ACA. When your deductible is $5000 per year then all that's left is essentially catastrophic coverage. That made concierge coverage a wise additional cost.
So thanks for nothing, Obama!
* As proof, in 2010 Scott Brown was elected running almost solely on an opposition to Obamacare platform ... in the most liberal state in the US. The ACA was rammed down the throats of the citizenry by the Dems with a filibuster-proof majority. Not a single Republican in either house voted for it. Even some Dems had to be bought to vote for it.
Quote:Yeah similar time periods imply causality.
And that's a lot of defending of s law u don't support that will collapse on itself in a year.
LOL, it really hurts to know that the system you champion has been having an uptick based on a system you hate, huh? I'm just pointing out the facts, unbiased facts. It's just a bonus that it stings you... :thumbsup:
As promised:
<p style="font-size:1.05em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;text-align:justify;background-color:rgb(213,214,215);">The
2010 health law, which requires that most people have insurance, identifies
direct primary care as an acceptable option. Because it doesn’t cover specialists or emergencies, consumers need a high-deductible health plan as well. Still, the combined cost of the monthly fee and that plan is often still cheaper than traditional insurance.
<p style="font-size:1.05em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;text-align:justify;background-color:rgb(213,214,215);">The health law’s language was “sort of [an] ‘open-for-business’ sign,” said Jay Keese, a lobbyist who heads the Direct Primary Care Coalition. Before 2010, between six and 20 direct primary care practices existed across the country. Now, there are more than 400 group practices.
http://blog.riskmanagers.us/?p=20751
"Concierge medicine’s perceived advantages will only grow in the coming years, experts say, as the traditional health-care system becomes even more strained. The full implementation of the Affordable Care Act next year is expected to bring more than 20 million formerly uninsured patients into the health-care system through 2022, exacerbating an existing physician shortage."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-con...2013-01-17
“Everything in our system today — and this has changed a bit which is one of the positive developments of the ACA — historically has been about sick care,” Jorgensen said. “The driving event is that the patient feels sick and goes to the doctor. The goals of the ACA are very compatible with what we do.”
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/th...e-063015#6
Quote:Notice how it went from its too expensive it will never work to "well u should really thank obama"
I still think it would be too expensive. I can walk and chew gum at the same time... It works as a niche, but you can't take care of an entire population of 300 million with it. From reading it, this is a way for doctors to opt out, have less patients and make more money. If there's already a doctor shortage, why the heck would doctors having less patients be cost effective? It wouldn't...
Also, the moment the obamacare madate to have health insurance goes away, the concierge market dries up once again... Unless you want to keep the obamacare mandate... Do you?
Quote:LOL, it really hurts to know that the system you champion has been having an uptick based on a system you hate, huh? I'm just pointing out the facts, unbiased facts. It's just a bonus that it stings you... :thumbsup:
As promised:
<p style="font-size:1.05em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;text-align:justify;background-color:rgb(213,214,215);">The 2010 health law, which requires that most people have insurance, identifies direct primary care as an acceptable option. Because it doesn’t cover specialists or emergencies, consumers need a high-deductible health plan as well. Still, the combined cost of the monthly fee and that plan is often still cheaper than traditional insurance.
<p style="font-size:1.05em;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;text-align:justify;background-color:rgb(213,214,215);">The health law’s language was “sort of [an] ‘open-for-business’ sign,” said Jay Keese, a lobbyist who heads the Direct Primary Care Coalition. Before 2010, between six and 20 direct primary care practices existed across the country. Now, there are more than 400 group practices.
http://blog.riskmanagers.us/?p=20751
"Concierge medicine’s perceived advantages will only grow in the coming years, experts say, as the traditional health-care system becomes even more strained. The full implementation of the Affordable Care Act next year is expected to bring more than 20 million formerly uninsured patients into the health-care system through 2022, exacerbating an existing physician shortage."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-con...2013-01-17
“Everything in our system today — and this has changed a bit which is one of the positive developments of the ACA — historically has been about sick care,” Jorgensen said. “The driving event is that the patient feels sick and goes to the doctor. The goals of the ACA are very compatible with what we do.”
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/th...e-063015#6
This is the logic of statism. We spend a trillion dollars and half a decade creating a "marketplace" and websites that don't working disrupting the care and networks of tens of millions of Americans. The underlying product, the exchange based insurance contracts, are essentially worthless to working American families because the deductibles are so high that they can't use them.
The private sector comes up with a solution that costs less money less time and doesn't push tens of millions of people off their health insurance and the statists raise their arms and sing their own praises because they didn't outlaw the work around...
If i come and burn your house down do i get credit for the great deal you get on hotels.com?
Quote:I still think it would be too expensive. I can walk and chew gum at the same time... It works as a niche, but you can't take care of an entire population of 300 million with it. From reading it, this is a way for doctors to opt out, have less patients and make more money. If there's already a doctor shortage, why the heck would doctors having less patients be cost effective? It wouldn't...
Also, the moment the obamacare madate to have health insurance goes away, the concierge market dries up once again... Unless you want to keep the obamacare mandate... Do you?
You've been conditioned your whole life to think in terms of mandates and government programs, i get it. Direct compensation to care providers is an alternative method of risk management. It offloads certain risks from health insurers that in the long term will make any insurance contract less affordable. It also gives incentives for more efficient delivery of care. If the underlying cost of the stitches drops from 2000 at the ER to a 15 minute drive to your doctors office then that efficiency is going to make its way through the marketplace.
Urgent Care facilities are another great example. We should be encouraging systems that allow physicians assistance, nurse practitioners etc. etc. etc. to do as much of the small stuff as possible and lower cost.
One of the reasons that this has moved so slowly is that most healthcare providers are hooked up with major networks of health insurers and are almost never REALLY exposed to price competition. The more exposure that the market sees to real price competition then the more natural efficiency and innovations will be created.
Lol, three articles that simply state that a result of Obama care has been to the benefit of concierge services, which can also be quantified, and you try to attack the messenger and ignore the facts.
That's classic... I'm enjoying this, I'm not gonna lie. This is pure gold. :-)
If you're not going to take the time to understand the subject matter why comment?
PS---if you read the articles I linked, Obama care has a section in it that specifically discusses and allows for concierge service.
It wasn't a "work around" that the private sector came up with. Haha!
Again, pure gold. Those that hate our government so much cannot handle it when the government actually is proven to be beneficial.
Again, I'm no fan of Obama care, which allows me objectivity. It's clear, you are not objective regarding this discussion and topic.
Quote:If you're not going to take the time to understand the subject matter why comment?
Lol... that's your response?? My cheeks are getting sore from all this smiling.
I think I've proven I understand this topic. I've even provided multiple links and quotes.
It's you that appears to be in a tizzy.
Your calling me a statist and someone that cannot understand how the private sector works. Your basically attacking my intelligence and my personality as a way to deflect from the facts as I have laid them out.
Face it, you're solution is not feasible and is only the result of Obama care. If Obama care and the mandate to have health insurance is lifted, most people, especially the young , the healthy, and those in financial difficulty (which off alot!) drop coverage and your solution goes back to being a small niche and not the solution.