Quote:PS---if you read the articles I linked, Obama care has a section in it that specifically discusses and allows for concierge service.
It wasn't a "work around" that the private sector came up with. Haha!
Again, pure gold. Those that hate our government so much cannot handle it when the government actually is proven to be beneficial.
Again, I'm no fan of Obama care, which allows me objectivity. It's clear, you are not objective regarding this discussion and topic.
Childish. "We didn't outlaw something invented a decade ago do really we befitted you."
Nevermind the rate hikes nevermind 20 plus co ops going bankrupt nevermind state exchanges that are going out of business. Nevermind the millions of people kicked off their plans nevermind the tens of millions more who pay for coverage they can't use to avoid a fine.
The fact that a bunch of doctors decided to abandon the system we indebted the nation to create and deliver care much more efficiently means that the trillions of dollars were worth it.
Thank u government run education system and hotels.com
Quote:PS---if you read the articles I linked, Obama care has a section in it that specifically discusses and allows for concierge service.
It wasn't a "work around" that the private sector came up with. Haha!
Again, pure gold. Those that hate our government so much cannot handle it when the government actually is proven to be beneficial.
Again, I'm no fan of Obama care, which allows me objectivity. It's clear, you are not objective regarding this discussion and topic.
Childish. "We didn't outlaw something invented a decade ago do really we befitted you."
Nevermind the rate hikes nevermind 20 plus co ops going bankrupt nevermind state exchanges that are going out of business. Nevermind the millions of people kicked off their plans nevermind the tens of millions more who pay for coverage they can't use to avoid a fine.
The fact that a bunch of doctors decided to abandon the system we indebted the nation to create and deliver care much more efficiently means that the trillions of dollars were worth it.
Thank u government run education system and hotels.com
Again, Obama care specifically outlined a section within the law to allow concierge services an opening to provide care.
I think I've made my point...
Face it, the private sector is a terrible solution to a public problem. This is why we have governments. Because, while an open and fair market works in many situations, matters that relate to the public good and social fabric and infrastructure of a society tend to fail when driven by a profit motive.
Completely totally and historically FALSE.
public schools... Fail.
Obamacare.... Actuarially insolvent fail. Millions of people out of the healthcare market millions more trapped and can't afford to see a doctor. talk to me about the va.
National old age survivor and disability insurance. Fail. The country is going bankrupt and open end investment companies and term insurance have mathematically decimated this model to the point of absurdity.
Government entities have NEVER allocated resources as efficiently as the private sector, Obamacare is another prime example of it.
If barrack Obama was the CEO of a private health insurer and went on national television and told the American people that they would be able to keep their plans while having secret meetings on how to spin the inevitable fact that his promise was a lie he would have been thrown in jail.
If a group of financiers wanted to start an open end investment company with the debt to income ratio and unfunded long-term liabilities of the federal government the sec and finra would laugh them out of town, yet we are all forced into a compulsory insurance system with the threat of fines or jail.
The people in flint Michigan don't have clean water and the local government threatened to take away their children if they didn't pay for water they couldn't use. Now that's change u can believe in.
Eve demonstrated that you doubt ubdrrstand federalism, the real concept of a representative republic, or the principals of limited government that shaped the formation of the country. You also refuse to deal with the open transparent and glaring failures both historical and contemporary of the public sector to ever outperform the private sector. All you can do is claim that the government not outlawing something in 2000 pages of draconian regulation is some kind of defacto innovation that should be applauded while the treasury is in a death march to banruptcy, veterans are literally dying while waiting in line for care and millions of Americans are withdrawing from receiving healthcare because of deductible shock. Unbelievable.
Deflections and opinions, that's all you got left... Lol
The concierge service was like 500 doctors before Obama care. Before Obama care it was niche and immaterial. It has expanded because of Obama care, as all my sources and many others point to. And it dries up without Obama care. That's just the bottom line...
Wether you like Obama care or not, that's the facts. I personally think Obama care has alot of issues. But there are obvious areas that it's helping as well... that's clear.
Neglect the numbers, neglect the reason that direct pay is more efficient, neglect the co op failures neglect the broken website neglect rate shock neglect deductible shock neglect the Medicaid expansion cliff for states, neglrvt the failures of state exchanges.
Just keep going back to statistics talking points about not outlawing things.
Lol. I'm the only one providing links and facts...
Your just wishful thinking...
Your providing links to prove that they didn't outlaw something. But that's not the big issue right now. I've been trying to play u in on thus for a week now. Here we go.
Dunuh Dunuh dunah
Quote:Again, Obama care specifically outlined a section within the law to allow concierge services an opening to provide care.
I think I've made my point...
Face it, the private sector is a terrible solution to a public problem. This is why we have governments. Because, while an open and fair market works in many situations, matters that relate to the public good and social fabric and infrastructure of a society tend to fail when driven by a profit motive.
You're missing the import of what you are saying. The ACA contributed to the growth of Concierge medicine the way criminals contribute to the growth of police stations. Long before the ACA we discussed direct care models as a response to reduced reimbursements from CMS but no real action was taken because the current circumstances weren't dire enough. What does that explosive growth post-ACA say about the attitudes of both the patient and provider populations today?
And, again, the true limitation on this care model is the government regulations that will deny forms of care to patients who choose it. This is NOT a free market issue, its a government in the way issue.
Now you're just not even making sense...
And actually, my links are exactly at issue. You don't like Obama care. I also do not think it's the best system. However, your solution is one that is only able to even become semi-beneficial BECAUSE of Obama care. Without it, as I've stated, the niche market that is concierge service, dries up completely.
I've proven this, and you have failed to rebutte my points. Instead, you're attacking me, or attacking the problems with Obama care---which I've already pointed out that I'm well aware of...
The problem is that you have come up with this solution that won't work without the mandates and large customer pools that Obma care has created. You've hung your hat on a plan that collapses the moment we get rid of a plan that Obama put into place.
That's a fact. Just accept it and move on... Or don't. Whatever. Either way, I've painted you into a corner and you can't get out. That's why your attacking me personally and trying to deflect the subject to something else.
Quote:You're missing the import of what you are saying. The ACA contributed to the growth of Concierge medicine the way criminals contribute to the growth of police stations. Long before the ACA we discussed direct care models as a response to reduced reimbursements from CMS but no real action was taken because the current circumstances weren't dire enough. What does that explosive growth post-ACA say about the attitudes of both the patient and provider populations today?
And, again, the true limitation on this care model is the government regulations that will deny forms of care to patients who choose it. This is NOT a free market issue, its a government in the way issue.
Regarding the bolded... That's your analysis and opinion based on your ideology. There is another point of view that discussed the facts regarding healthcare and why an insurance pool is needed.
The young are cheap because they are generally healthy. Therefore, if they exit the insurance pool, you're left with the old and expensive. You need the mandate to create a feasable pool. That's the theory.
Eventually everyone uses healthcare... That's also a fact. But if you don't start paying into the pool untill you get old or hurt, then costs get out of control. that's why the mandate exists. Whether you like it or not, that's how they created the thing.
But the facts are the facts, as you get older you use the healthcare system. So the theory is you should be buying into it the whole time... Even this concierge service sees that. That's why you are paying a monthly fee to the doctors to keep them on "retainer"...
Or... You could just make it a single payer/universal system like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY DOES!
Quote:Your providing links to prove that they didn't outlaw something. But that's not the big issue right now. I've been trying to play u in on thus for a week now. Here we go.
Dunuh Dunuh dunah
I seriously don't know what the bolded part means...
Lol. No. U haven't not at all. U still don't grasp risk management. If a system of managing risk is efficent and makes the underlying risk (actual use of healthcare) less expensive then its not dependent on a mandate.
Direct compensation is expanding because it can carry its own weight outside of the mandated bureacracy of obamacare. In fat, true customized catastrophic care was effectively abolished through the aca.
So essentially what you have is a situation where the most beneficial cocktail is direct pay (concierge) for low to mid level care and some urgent care couple with catastrophic health insurance to cover big ticket items.
What you had was a situation where 85% of the population could afford comprehensive coverage and most doctors were happy to buy it.
Now you have a situation where comprehensive coverage has been made more expensive because of mandates. As a result premiums on mandated comp care go through the roof and as a result deductibles are so high expensive comprehensive coverage only kicks in in a catastrophic situation.
As such some doctors are offering patients an option to combat deductible shock even though their premiums are through the roof.
And the consumer should thank u for outlawing catastrophic coverage and tripling their premiums for nothing?
And u STILL haven't named that tune.
No no....
Dunuh dunnnnah dunnnnnah
Quote:Lol. No. U haven't not at all. U still don't grasp risk management. If a system of managing risk is efficent and makes the underlying risk (actual use of healthcare) less expensive then its not dependent on a mandate.
Direct compensation is expanding because it can carry its own weight outside of the mandated bureacracy of obamacare. In fat, true customized catastrophic care was effectively abolished through the aca.
So essentially what you have is a situation where the most beneficial cocktail is direct pay (concierge) for low to mid level care and some urgent care couple with catastrophic health insurance to cover big ticket items.
What you had was a situation where 85% of the population could afford comprehensive coverage and most doctors were happy to buy it.
Now you have a situation where comprehensive coverage has been made more expensive because of mandates. As a result premiums on mandated comp care go through the roof and as a result deductibles are so high expensive comprehensive coverage only kicks in in a catastrophic situation.
As such some doctors are offering patients an option to combat deductible shock even though their premiums are through the roof.
And the consumer should thank u for outlawing catastrophic coverage and tripling their premiums for nothing?
And u STILL haven't named that tune.
Dude, whatever, I think I understand this, including risk management well enough...
I think you're giving way too much credence to the flexibility and universality of the concierge system to handle the entire population...
Couple things from the above... you state that the mandate makes coverage more expensive, when the reports are the inflation rate of coverage has actually decreased? Forbes talks about this. The rate of increase had slowed down to 4 percent.
Lastly, if you decouple family practitioners from the catastrophic insurance, the pool of costs and users of the catastrophic insurers would sky rocket, because the entire population that the insurance would be covering would be surgeries and high expense items. And, like I said, the young, the healthy, and the poor would opt out of purchasing this coverage, thus exacerbating the price and cost increases.
Incorrect. The universe for catastrophic healthcare is much more static than all generalized healthcare. People aren't going out and breaking bones just to get free lollipops in the Er.
Also risks should be customized. In a guy. Why am I paying for maternity care. Why are non drug users paying for addiction counseling? I have a generally clean family history do I really need a policy with no lifetime caps?
These increased factors in the general risk pool caused the cost of insuring people to go up. To offset the costs insurers dumped risk in the form of inordinate deductibles. Costs have gone up when you factor in deductible shock. That is bleeding over into premiums skyrocketing under the new system as young invincible are just paying the fine instead of buying health insurance they can't afford to use anyway.
That's why 20 some odd non for profit government start ups have gone out of business, why exchanges are collapsing and insurers are pulling out.
You can't make more demands on a service and not expect it to cost more.
I mean I see what you're saying in the hypothetical, but I am pretty sure the reality and studies show different results.
That Forbes article I referenced discusses that research shows increase rates have leveled off. In addition, the idea of segregating health pools increase costs of the two separate pools.
That's the whole point of the mandate. You're talkin about the pool as a service. It's not, it's a population of costs and risks. The more diverse the risk pool, the easier it would be to mitigate catastrophic events that occur for insurers, and thus less premiums for the customers.
And dunah dunnnah dunnah isn't helpful. I'm gonna need to buy a vowel and a couple more notes
Melissa McCarthy and slimer