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Quote:Maybe

But it is historical fact the author has yuge skeletons in his closet regarding race and slavery. And he wasn't against it.

So it's not a stretch to suggest the 3rd verse was less than patriotic.

You clearly know nothing of Key. Go read at minimum the wiki on him, revise your opinion of him, then come back and try again.

Quote:If you say so, but, having never heard or even read the verse before:

 

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,"

 

sure sounds like the [BAD WORD REMOVED] the Americans were kicking were those of mercenaries and escaped slaves.  And right or wrong, Key was happy about it.  If you were a slave and got to the British side, you were free.  Free to fight against the system that enslaved you.  Our national anthem celebrates vanquishing the dreams of those slaves.

 

Not that it matters.  Any verse but the 1st of the national anthem is kinda worthless anyway.

Try reading the whole stanza including the phrase before that one? They weren't escaped slaves, they impressed conscripts forced to fight for the British. Impressment by the Royal Navy was a key, no pun intended, reason for the conflict, the same with Jefferson's fight with the Barbary Pirates some years before.

Quote:Seems like you missed my post so I'll send it again....

 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">For instance that article claims that

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">No refuge could save the hireling and slave"   

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Is a reference to black slaves being killed. When in reality it refers to the british use of german mercenaries in the war and the british use of impressment where they would force and kidnap american seamen to serve on british ships, If i'm not mistaken that was one of the biggest causes of the war in 1812. 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Of course the author of that article didn't actually know any of this so he put his own spin on what it meant.

 

For an opposing opinion, check out the documentary included in the link from the students at Morgan State.

 

If nothing else, it has a superb rendition of the national anthem at the end (3rd stanza included).

Quote:If you say so, but, having never heard or even read the verse before:

 

"No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,"


 

sure sounds like the [BAD WORD REMOVED] the Americans were kicking were those of mercenaries and escaped slaves.  And right or wrong, Key was happy about it.  If you were a slave and got to the British side, you were free.  Free to fight against the system that enslaved you.  Our national anthem celebrates vanquishing the dreams of those slaves.

 

Not that it matters.  Any verse but the 1st of the national anthem is kinda worthless anyway.

I absolutely love how 22nd Century citizens love to impose their current worldly views on someone from the 18th century.  Try reading that same verse from the perspective of one living at that time.  

 

Could he not be saying that regardless of your origins we will prevail?

Quote:My disdain for idolatry is biblical

Had you ever worn the uniform you would understand my point.  Having never done so you may never understand the sacrifice.  Feel free to ridicule those of us who have though.  Our sacrifice gives you that right.

Quote:Try reading the whole stanza including the phrase before that one? They weren't escaped slaves, they impressed conscripts forced to fight for the British. Impressment by the Royal Navy was a key, no pun intended, reason for the conflict, the same with Jefferson's fight with the Barbary Pirates some years before.

 

Okay, just read the whole thing, and was kinda surprised to see that it actually had, essentially, "In God we Trust" in the 4th verse.  I guess it was around before the Red Scare.

 

Anyway, I don't really see anything in the 2nd stanza that would somehow take that whole "vanquished slaves" message out of the 3rd stanza for those who, like me, see it as fairly obvious.

 

As for whether Francis Scott Key meant, in the 3rd stanza, black slaves seeking freedom in the welcoming arms of the British Navy or those of all races pressed into involuntary servitude by the evil Brits, I honestly don't know and don't really care.  As I've said, it's a weak argument to kneel for the anthem because of a racist verse nobody ever sings anyway.  But just reading the poem - it was a poem long before it became the anthem - and knowing the Brits offered freedom to slaves joining their side, I can see how it could be interpreted as condoning slavery.

Quote:I absolutely love how 22nd Century citizens love to impose their current worldly views on someone from the 18th century.  Try reading that same verse from the perspective of one living at that time.  

 

Could he not be saying that regardless of your origins we will prevail?

 

I'm not condemning Key or the times in which he lived, but I'm halfway sure of his intent when he wrote the verses.  By today's standards, one stanza is less than noble.

 

I still love Looney Tunes, but there's a dark side to the early days of animation, too (no pun intended).

 

On topic, I'd take Kaepernick in Jax as a backup for Henne's contract in a heartbeat.

Quote:Had you ever worn the uniform you would understand my point.  Having never done so you may never understand the sacrifice.  Feel free to ridicule those of us who have though.  Our sacrifice gives you that right.

No one is ridiculing brave soldiers and veterans.

Trump even got Kaep to donate $50k to Meals on Wheels.

Colon cancer

Quote:Okay, just read the whole thing, and was kinda surprised to see that it actually had, essentially, "In God we Trust" in the 4th verse.  I guess it was around before the Red Scare.

 

Anyway, I don't really see anything in the 2nd stanza that would somehow take that whole "vanquished slaves" message out of the 3rd stanza for those who, like me, see it as fairly obvious.

 

 

 

To the first statemtent, early American history is flooded with references to the Christian religion no matter how much modern people try to deny it.

 

Secondly, the concept in music and poetry is the Phrase, in this case the first phrase of the 3rd stanza says: 

 

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.

 

Translation:

Where are those loudmouths who said

that we would fight

and they would take our land and homes?

We cleansed our soil with their blood.

 

Second phrase:

 

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

Translation:

There's nowhere their mercenaries and conscripts can hide

from running in fear and the death we have for them

And our flag waves still

over this great land.

 

This is pretty simple stuff, that someone actually tried to turn it into racism is absurd. This is actually some of the best American trash talk you'll ever hear, written after McHenry took all the most powerful navy on Earth at the time could throw at it, and watching the Londoners acknowledge it every year at the Jags game make me giggle a little bit inside.

Quote:If I'm starting a team and I'm offered a choice between Kaep, Mike Glennon, Josh McCown, Hackenburg, Matt Barkley, Tom Savage, Blaine Gabbert and Brandon Weeden , I know who I'm going to pick...

Glennon? He's basically bortles

Quote:Glennon? He's basically bortles

What does Glennon do better than Kaep?

Quote:LOL.  I'm gonna tell your boss that you called his wife a whale.   :devil:

*starts looking for new job* haha

Quote:What does Glennon do better than Kaep?

Stand during the national anthem?

It could be any anthem really. I don't know how Glennon feels about "We Will Rock You".

Quote:To the first statemtent, early American history is flooded with references to the Christian religion no matter how much modern people try to deny it.

 

Secondly, the concept in music and poetry is the Phrase, in this case the first phrase of the 3rd stanza says: 

 

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.

 

Translation:

Where are those loudmouths who said

that we would fight

and they would take our land and homes?

We cleansed our soil with their blood.

 

Second phrase:

 

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

Translation:

There's nowhere their mercenaries and conscripts can hide

from running in fear and the death we have for them

And our flag waves still

over this great land.

 

This is pretty simple stuff, that someone actually tried to turn it into racism is absurd. This is actually some of the best American trash talk you'll ever hear, written after McHenry took all the most powerful navy on Earth at the time could throw at it, and watching the Londoners acknowledge it every year at the Jags game make me giggle a little bit inside.

 

I agree the stanza is a nose thumb to the British.

 

Where I disagree is with your assertion, like JackCity, that the word "slave" means "conscript".  I think the word "slave" means "slave."

Quote:What does Glennon do better than Kaep?

Throw the ball.

Quote:Throw the ball.

Except Kaep is


- More accurate

-Throws more TDs

-Throws less picks

-Better at throwing on the run

-Better deep ball

-Way stronger arm


Sooo...

Quote:Except Kaep is


- More accurate

-Throws more TDs

-Throws less picks

-Better at throwing on the run

-Better deep ball

-Way stronger arm


Sooo...

Years ago. Not anymore