Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Sorry, Chase played in two games this year, but he didn't start. And he only had 2 pass attempts. I was giving him too much credit above. I still stand by my points.

Quote: Why re-sign Henne over other qbs who give you a better chance to win?

That's the issue I have with all of this:


How do we know that to be actual fact? How can we positively say "those other backup QBs give you a better chance to win"? How is that true? How do any of those backup QBs give them a better chance to win? That cannot be stated as a fact.


We haven't seen Henne play since well before this new offensive lineup has developed over 2 seasons. How do we know he's going to be as terrible as what happened when he played with Shorts, Lewis, and a different/worse O-line?


I know it's not the popular opinion, but I personally think that Henne is one of the most solid backups in the entire league (comparing all backups,, not starters).


I don't wanna hear the "Osweiler" stuff. What do you think he would look like on this defensive-starved team? There'd be alot of losses still. Osweiler got benched last week. And he came REALLY close to blowing Denver's whole season. They were struggling and losing games too. If Denver's defense didn't step up in a HUGE way against Cincy,, Denver was in serious jeopardy of not even making the playoffs.



Anyway, strictly considering backups, I think Henne is one of the better ones. I wouldn't take Mettenberger, Mallett, Schaub, etc.. over him right now.


If Bortles goes down for any length of time, the Jags are screwed regardless. Stick with the guy who's been on the team for a while until salary actually becomes an issue.


**Keep Henne,, Draft a mid-late round QB to see if he can develop into the #2 QB after next season. I don't see the harm.

Quote:Henne doesnt even compare to Vick .. He doesnt have the mobility,arm strength nor accuaracy... Sry ... Vicks not great but hes middle of the road and far better then Henne.

You really need to let go of the 2006 Mike Vick. 

Quote:You really need to let go of the 2006 Mike Vick.

My 2 year old son is better than Henne. Not surprising that you think so highly of him.

Quote:My 2 year old son is better than Henne. Not surprising that you think so highly of him.

 

 

There you go. I'm sure for $4 mil a year he can take over and lose games too.

Quote:Anyone who thinks Chase Daniel is better than Henne is being silly. Daniel hasn't proven to be better than anyone.

Better? No. Younger? Yeah. Skill set closer to Bortles'? Yup. More upside? I'd say so. He's not going to go off and be anyone's starter, but he's a competent backup who wouldn't require changing the offense as much as Henne would if Bortles misses any significant time.

 

Quote:last year what did Henne do? Nothing !! Vick lets not forget just got signed in July...Why i am i wasting my time u idiots blind and ignorant ... Im still laughing at the idea that Henne is better then Vick.

Yo Boy for Most Valuable Poster 2016

 

Quote:I don't know. Chase is 6'0". Guys that height that play well enough are the exception not the rule. A game or two? Yeah maybe. 4 or more? No way. He had success this year in two games for KC where they play Andy Reid's west coast offense. I think he's a good backup in that system. I don't think he would be able to take advantage of Robinson's ability to win the 50/50 balls downfield though. We'd have to run a completely different offense if he came in as the backup here.

Drew Brees and Michael Vick are both 6'0". Aaron Rodgers is only 6'2". Doug Flutie is 5'10". You don't have to be 6'5" to be a decent QB.

I personally believe that Chase could start in this league if need be.

Quote:My 2 year old son is better than Henne. Not surprising that you think so highly of him.

 

Probably would post better than you too....

Quote:I personally believe that Chase could start in this league if need be.

So could the other 31 backup QBs.

I think we can upgrade the position. I wouldn't make it a priority though

Quote:I think we can upgrade the position. I wouldn't make it a priority though

If a guy like Hoyer or Fitzy were available... sure.... I'd take those guys as upgrades...

 

with what is available right now... Henne sure does look like the best option.

Quote:Did I say anything about the number of QBs that played?  My statement was that if a starting QB goes down, you're in trouble anyway.  

 

Let that sink in.

 

It sounds like your posting just to post.

 

Good grief.

 

 

No, your statement that I quoted was you complaining about a thread being made about who our backup QB was going to be.  I merely provided good reason why it's, in fact, a valid discussion in conjunction with the fact that you've posted in it multiple times.  And no you didn't say anything about the number of QBs that played.  I did.  Evidently the point was lost on you.  Since it wasn't obvious enough, the point is that we were lucky Blake made it through this season without missing time.  We'll be lucky if he does that again next year.  And oh by the way, Gus and Dave understand this as does anyone that understands that injuries in the NFL are a reality and you better have a decent insurance policy at the most important position.

 

Backup QBs were collectively 30-49 this season.  More are going to play poorly than not, but league history is littered with examples of backups coming in for stints and being productive.  Here's a list of backup QBs with .500 or better records this past year:

 

Matt Hasselbeck 5-3 w/ Indy (free agent)

Josh Freeman 1-0 w/ Indy 

A.J. McCarron w/ Cincy 2-1

Michael Vick 2-1 w/ Pitt (free agent)

Landry Jones w/ Pitt 1-1

Matt Schaub 1-1 w/ Balt (free agent)

T.J. Yates 2-0 w/ Hou (free agent)

Brandon Weeden 3-3 w/ Dallas & Hou (free agent)

Brock Osweiler 5-2 w/ Denver (free agent)

 

Unsurprisingly most of these guys helped their teams stay in the hunt, get into the playoffs or helped them maintain or improve seeding for the playoffs.  I realize the only place Brock would sign to be the back up is in Denver, the remaining examples speak for themselves however.  I also realize that it doesn't mean those same guys would have done the same thing here this year, but we're talking about next year.  With the cap space we have to bring in more talent and the players we have returning from injury where we apparently didn't have enough quality backups (shhh, don't talk about that), there's no reason to think that we won't be in the mix for the division going into November and December again next year.  What if Henne is here again and is called on to play 3 or 4 games next year?  Are you confident he can go at least 2-1 or 2-2 respectively?  I'm not saying he can't, but that's the point of this thread is to discuss it.  And with the exception of 2 or 3 posts, it's been a healthy discussion.  

 

You're not asking these guys to be the reason you win, you're asking them to not be the reason you lose.  I think it's safe to say the number of guys in the league that can handle that is fewer than you think which makes the decision on who will be your backup QB an important one.  If you're basing your opinion on expectations that this is a 5 or 6 win team next year even with Blake starting all 16 games, I suppose you have a point about our back up QB not mattering.  If you think we're going to be in the 8+ win category next year, it's going to be very important to have one of the handful of backups in the league that can guide the ship if called upon.  Especially considering signing a quality backup QB doesn't mean sacrificing depth at another position.  We have the cap space.  We've got other backups hitting free agency this year, some of which are quality.  Will you complain when those threads are started?

Quote:No, your statement that I quoted was you complaining about a thread being made about who our backup QB was going to be.  I merely provided good reason why it's, in fact, a valid discussion in conjunction with the fact that you've posted in it multiple times.  And no you didn't say anything about the number of QBs that played.  I did.  Evidently the point was lost on you.  Since it wasn't obvious enough, the point is that we were lucky Blake made it through this season without missing time.  We'll be lucky if he does that again next year.  And oh by the way, Gus and Dave understand this as does anyone that understands that injuries in the NFL are a reality and you better have a decent insurance policy at the most important position.

 

Backup QBs were collectively 30-49 this season.  More are going to play poorly than not, but league history is littered with examples of backups coming in for stints and being productive.  Here's a list of backup QBs with .500 or better records this past year:

 

Matt Hasselbeck 5-3 w/ Indy (free agent)

Josh Freeman 1-0 w/ Indy 

A.J. McCarron w/ Cincy 2-1

Michael Vick 2-1 w/ Pitt (free agent)

Landry Jones w/ Pitt 1-1

Matt Schaub 1-1 w/ Balt (free agent)

T.J. Yates 2-0 w/ Hou (free agent)

Brandon Weeden 3-3 w/ Dallas & Hou (free agent)

Brock Osweiler 5-2 w/ Denver (free agent)

 

Unsurprisingly most of these guys helped their teams stay in the hunt, get into the playoffs or helped them maintain or improve seeding for the playoffs.  I realize the only place Brock would sign to be the back up is in Denver, the remaining examples speak for themselves however.  I also realize that it doesn't mean those same guys would have done the same thing here this year, but we're talking about next year.  With the cap space we have to bring in more talent and the players we have returning from injury where we apparently didn't have enough quality backups (shhh, don't talk about that), there's no reason to think that we won't be in the mix for the division going into November and December again next year.  What if Henne is here again and is called on to play 3 or 4 games next year?  Are you confident he can go at least 2-1 or 2-2 respectively?  I'm not saying he can't, but that's the point of this thread is to discuss it.  And with the exception of 2 or 3 posts, it's been a healthy discussion.  

 

You're not asking these guys to be the reason you win, you're asking them to not be the reason you lose.  I think it's safe to say the number of guys in the league that can handle that is fewer than you think which makes the decision on who will be your backup QB an important one.  If you're basing your opinion on expectations that this is a 5 or 6 win team next year even with Blake starting all 16 games, I suppose you have a point about our back up QB not mattering.  If you think we're going to be in the 8+ win category next year, it's going to be very important to have one of the handful of backups in the league that can guide the ship if called upon.  Especially considering signing a quality backup QB doesn't mean sacrificing depth at another position.  We have the cap space.  We've got other backups hitting free agency this year, some of which are quality.  Will you complain when those threads are started?

And if/when those guys come available, let us know.

 

Right now the top FA QB options are Bradford, Foles (gonna get paid), Fitzy (probably gonna get paid), Henne, Daniel, and a slew of guys that can't possibly be worth two dead flies.

 

OK, so a lot of back ups went .500 on their teams or around there.

If Henne starts 2 games for a dinged up Bortles, you don't think he could go 1-1?

But Chase Daniel could?

 

Osweiler was drafted to be their guy of the future.

McCarron was a talented mid round pick.

but most of these back ups are journeymen. Comparing them with Henne would be splitting hairs of difference.

 

Schaub has been known to lose more games than win.

Hasslebeck is old, and likely done.

2 of those QBs won those games in spite of their performances and mostly on the back of that Houston D, plus a couple games against the Jags would never hurt anyone's chances.

 

Fact is... when it comes to backups you got two kinds... the young developing kind (drafted in mid rounds, might be a future guy, might be a project) and the old journeyman kind.

The young ones usually sit behind older vets. The old ones usually sit behind highly drafted guys (Like Luck and Bortles).

 

ANY back up in the NFL can win you some games if your team around them is good enough. Ours isn't. So unless you're gonna get a back up that plays as well as Bortles, it doesn't matter who is back there.

Can Henne... I don't care. Sign some other schmuck to make a buck watching.

If they come at a way cheaper price. 

 

But if you're telling me paying Chase Daniel 4 mil is better than paying Henne 4 mil.... well I ain't buying it.

It's a wash, at least.

Quote:And if/when those guys come available, let us know.

 

Right now the top FA QB options are Bradford, Foles (gonna get paid), Fitzy (probably gonna get paid), Henne, Daniel, and a slew of guys that can't possibly be worth two dead flies.

 

OK, so a lot of back ups went .500 on their teams or around there.

If Henne starts 2 games for a dinged up Bortles, you don't think he could go 1-1?

But Chase Daniel could?

 

Schaub has been known to lose more games than win.

Hasslebeck is old, and likely done.

2 of those QBs won those games in spite of their performances and mostly on the back of that Houston D, plus a couple games against the Jags would never hurt anyone's chances.

 

Fact is... when it comes to backups you got two kinds... the young developing kind (drafted in mid rounds, might be a future guy, might be a project) and the old journeyman kind.

The young ones usually sit behind older vets. The old ones usually sit behind highly drafted guys (Like Luck and Bortles).

 

ANY back up in the NFL can win you some games if your team around them is good enough. Ours isn't. So unless you're gonna get a back up that plays as well as Bortles, it doesn't matter who is back there.

Can Henne... I don't care. Sign some other schmuck to make a buck watching.

If they come at a way cheaper price. 

 

But if you're telling me paying Chase Daniel 4 mil is better than paying Henne 4 mil.... well I ain't buying it.

It's a wash, at least.

 

I posted a lengthy list at the beginning of this thread of guys set to hit free agency, I'm not doing it again.  Sure, some of them may re-sign with their teams and a lot of them are scrubs, but not all of them.  Talking about guys set to hit free agency is "ok" on a football message board, right?  Players usually like to hit the market when they're scheduled to do so.  Yeah Henne might be able to go 1-1 if called upon.  Are you confident in 2-2 or *gasp* 3-3 if need be?  I think it's worthy of discussion and apparently you do too despite your post supporting the lament of this thread's creation.

 

If you think it doesn't matter who backs Bortles up next season, then you have to be in the camp of this is a 5 or 6 win team at best next year regardless of what happens this offseason.  That's fine to think that way, but if you're expecting significant talent to be acquired this offseason coupled with the continued progression of our young players and anticipating that to put our expectations at 8 or more wins next season, I don't know how you could say that discussing our backup QB situation is a waste of time or annoying or whatever.

 

And apparently you missed this post below which was a couple of pages back:

 

Quote:I don't know. Chase is 6'0". Guys that height that play well enough are the exception not the rule. A game or two? Yeah maybe. 4 or more? No way. He had success this year in two games for KC where they play Andy Reid's west coast offense. I think he's a good backup in that system. I don't think he would be able to take advantage of Robinson's ability to win the 50/50 balls downfield though. We'd have to run a completely different offense if he came in as the backup here.

 

And I later clarified that he didn't actually start those two games and only had a couple of pass attempts this year.  I'm solidly not on the Chase Daniel bandwagon for this team just as solidly as I'm not against re-signing Henne.  I like the idea of taking a look at all the options though and it's clear to me there are varying levels of quality play from the backup QB market.

Quote:Drew Brees and Michael Vick are both 6'0". Aaron Rodgers is only 6'2". Doug Flutie is 5'10". You don't have to be 6'5" to be a decent QB.

 

The only one you missed was Russell Wilson, but other than that you picked out the exceptions to the rule quite nicely and I wouldn't lump 6'2" Aaron Rodgers in there as evidence.  There are a lot of great 6'2" QBs in NFL history.  In fact, it seems to be the bottom end of the optimal height range for being a good/great NFL QB.  Most good/great QB's in NFL history are in the 6'2" to 6'6" range in height.  Don't discount the fact that a height of 6'0" hurts you as a QB coming into this league.  If you're 6'0" and a good NFL QB, you're an outlier because it just doesn't happen that often.

 

On top of that, Chase Daniel has a career 64.9% completion percentage which is good, but he also has a yards per attempt average of 6.0 which means he's generally completing a lot of short passes ala a west coast style offense.  I don't believe he fits our offensive scheme here at all.  I think when signing a back up, you want him to be able to come in and run the same offense for the most part.  Henne could do that I believe but we'd need to shore up the O-line this offseason because he won't be extending plays like Blake does.

Henne was initially brought in and paid  as a stop gap starter. Now that Bortles is the clear cut starter that salary will be cut in half if he resigns

Quote:And if/when those guys come available, let us know.

 

Right now the top FA QB options are Bradford, Foles (gonna get paid), Fitzy (probably gonna get paid), Henne, Daniel, and a slew of guys that can't possibly be worth two dead flies.

 

OK, so a lot of back ups went .500 on their teams or around there.

If Henne starts 2 games for a dinged up Bortles, you don't think he could go 1-1?

But Chase Daniel could?

 

Osweiler was drafted to be their guy of the future.

McCarron was a talented mid round pick.

but most of these back ups are journeymen. Comparing them with Henne would be splitting hairs of difference.

 

Schaub has been known to lose more games than win.

Hasslebeck is old, and likely done.

2 of those QBs won those games in spite of their performances and mostly on the back of that Houston D, plus a couple games against the Jags would never hurt anyone's chances.

 

Fact is... when it comes to backups you got two kinds... the young developing kind (drafted in mid rounds, might be a future guy, might be a project) and the old journeyman kind.

The young ones usually sit behind older vets. The old ones usually sit behind highly drafted guys (Like Luck and Bortles).

 

ANY back up in the NFL can win you some games if your team around them is good enough. Ours isn't. So unless you're gonna get a back up that plays as well as Bortles, it doesn't matter who is back there.

Can Henne... I don't care. Sign some other schmuck to make a buck watching.

If they come at a way cheaper price. 

 

But if you're telling me paying Chase Daniel 4 mil is better than paying Henne 4 mil.... well I ain't buying it.

It's a wash, at least.

 

 

I think the 6.0 YPA stat for Daniel is a tad deceptive because I've seen him complete nice, deep passes. Ususally this would suggest a check-down passer like we know Henne is, but I feel the stat is more a reflection of what he's being asked to do in his backup role for KC versus what he can do. Now he's a backup so you ca n't know for sure, but everything I have seen from Daniel tells me he's at least better than Henne for the money.


 

AJ McCarron, Chase Daniel, Drew Stanton, Case Keenum and Matt Schaub are all set to hit free agency.  McCarron impressed me this past season and flat out passes the eye test better than Henne. Watching Stanton play for a while with the Cards, he can win games. When he was in there, the Cards at the time had an epic horrid OL. Keenum we've seen win some games as well for the Texans and Rams. Schaub has had some struggles with INTs, but he's got a nice deep pass that could make him an intriguing fit for the Jaguars offense. For the same $4 mil, I'd rather run with one of these guys.


 

Better yet, why not pay up for a borderline starter should one hit the market? The Jaguars are looking at being something like $80 to $90 mil under the cap, so they could out-bid teams even if it means having the most expensive backup QB in the league, and it would even sweat their cap situation. Kirk Cousins and Ryan Fitzpatrick are probably being re-signed, but <strong>Brock Osweiler and <span style="color:#008080;"><strong>Sam Bradford might hit the market. How much better might Bortles be if he's looking over his shoulder at Sam Bradford?
</strong></strong></span>

I kinda think of it in terms of auto insurance.. Henne is much needed just like insurance, but is equal to PIP..


Lets just hope Bortles doesn't get into any serious collisions.

I'd like to see them offer Henne a one year deal.  If he takes it fine, if he doesn't fine. 

 

Having him one more year gives them time/insurance to groom a 6th or 7th round pick like:

Jeff Driskel

Brandon Doughty - or 

Nate Sudfeld

 

I think these guys ^ are good developmental projects that Hackett/Olson could do well with. 

I can guarantee as soon as a new shiny unknown back up signs here this board will be unbearable. 

 

Play [insert name here], BBINT!!!