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After hearing Dave say the free safety is the like of finding the holy grail, I'm leaning towards us taking Ramsey even more so now.

Quote:After hearing Dave say the free safety is the like of finding the holy grail, I'm leaning towards us taking Ramsey even more so now.

 

Like it or not (the pick,) I tend to agree.

Quote:After hearing Dave say the free safety is the like of finding the holy grail, I'm leaning towards us taking Ramsey even more so now.

Yeah, if I had to guess right now then my money would be on Ramsey.

Quote:He plays like an in-the-box Strong, I don't think he has the range to play center field the way this defense requires.

 

PFF has him as a top 10 coverage safety. I think he can handle it. But he isn't leaving KC, so it doesn't matter.

Its like taking a 3 technique expecting them to get 12 sacks. It just doesnt happen. If they think fs is a premium position it is a mistake.

Quote:But, exactly what LEO type of player will be there/worth the 5th overall pick?

You can be a playoff team with good, deep stable of pass rushers and average secondary. Not the other way around. Even Seattle's defense works because of Bennett and Irvin, not just their Legion of Boom. Honestly, a team with a only a great front 7 will normally beat a team with only a great secondary.

 

But DC hasn't shown the ability to find LEO's in Free Agency. Not his fault, they don't often hit the market. Plus they either cost way too much or are over-the-hill/injured when they do.

 

Given the athleticism we want that guy to have, we have to use 1st/2nd round picks to get that style of player. You can try to trade down, but if you cannot and there is LEO type player who would normally be drafted at 13-17 and scouts out well, take him. 

Quote:Isa Abdul-Quddus is also an option, though he is looking for money.

 

I know L. Delmas is coming off his 2nd ACL, but he is still young and good when healthy. A prove it contract with games played and interception incentives could be an option.

 

I say this because i still think pick #5 should be another LEO. 

 

 IAQ certainly deserves a raise.  He's a versatile DB who can effectively play FS, SS,  and can fill in as a Nickel CB.   He's certainly an asset as a Special Teams player. 

 

 Unfortunately,  injuries have been a consistent theme for Louis Delmas.  Practically no player has more desire to play in the NFL than Delmas.  But his body,  especially his knees,  haven't held up.  No team can depend on Delmas getting through a season.   Even if he's signed,  a viable alternative option would be needed as well.  

Quote:Trumaine johnson would make sense but with the season he had i doubt he gets free and if he does it will cost a ton.

 

 Trumaine Johnson's performance against Calvin Johnson a few weeks ago,  including an interception return for a TD,  certainly helps his contract cause.   I agree with you that the Rams likely will find a way to keep him in their fold.  

Quote:You can be a playoff team with good, deep stable of pass rushers and average secondary. Not the other way around. Even Seattle's defense works because of Bennett and Irvin, not just their Legion of Boom. Honestly, a team with a only a great front 7 will normally beat a team with only a great secondary.

 

But DC hasn't shown the ability to find LEO's in Free Agency. Not his fault, they don't often hit the market. Plus they either cost way too much or are over-the-hill/injured when they do.

 

Given the athleticism we want that guy to have, we have to use 1st/2nd round picks to get that style of player. You can try to trade down, but if you cannot and there is LEO type player who would normally be drafted at 13-17 and scouts out well, take him. 

Irvin plays their OTTO/Sam backer position. Cliff Avril is probably who you're thinking about. Bennett is a game wrecker and Avril is their LEO. Those two guys alone blow away anybody we have on the DL.

 

Marks is up there, but as we all know, he's not the same coming off his knee injury. Hopefully he can bounce back to form next season.

 

The scheme they run, as well as us, absolutely requires constant pressure from just the front 4. If you watch their games, when their Defense is rolling, it's because the front 4 is constantly in the QBs face. Having those great players in the secondary definitely help, but this scheme lives and dies by the front 4 horses.

 

With that said, I agree completely about needing more horses along the front 4. We're going to need 2 new LEOs. The thing is, there really isn't anybody who fits that LEO type in the front half of the 1st round. Maybe not even in the whole 1st round.

 

There's far more talented players around where we'll be picking, just to reach on a LEO that high.

Quote:I was very surprised to hear Dave say FS is as hard to find as a franchise QB. WUT!? 

 

Give him credit, it got a thread here.

Quote:This is constipated thinking. FS is an extinct position. If your long and athletic they move you to corner. Why? Because the qbs first read is to throw away from the free safety!


Go rewatch the last superbowl. Earl thomas and devin mccourty, neither of them came close to the ball.


Look up any player you think is great at fs and tell me theyre worth it. We dodged a bullet with devin mccourty.

This is the dumbest thing I think I have ever read on this board and there's a lot of dumb

I like Ramsey a Lot but if we can get a solid addition like Berry in FA then why not go Buckner and shore up this pass rush?

Quote:I like Ramsey a Lot but if we can get a solid addition like Berry in FA then why not go Buckner and shore up this pass rush?

I don't think Buckner would provide a huge pass rush increase. He'd basically be another Big End for us.

So stupid that u cant refute it.

Quote:So stupid that u cant refute it.

guess we better draft another WR then. Treadwell will look pretty good with AR15 and Hurns.

A great coach takes the personnel he has and makes a scheme that will win games based on the talent he has & coaches them up.

I don't see a lot of great coaches in the NFL these days.

 

It seems Babich simply kept things the way they are for 3 years, and that is saying a lot about HC Gus Bradley & GM Dave Caldwell not doing anything about it until 2016 (heading into their 4th year).

 

Excuses are like.... well you know...

 

If they signed KC Safety Eric in Free Agency he could do Cover 3 High Safety if they kept the existing scheme (i knew Sergio Brown wasnt the answer), or draft Jalen to play it.

Even though Eric Berry played FS for the Chiefs, it sounds like the consensus is he's a SS. I still say we sign him along with Bruce Irvin at OTTO, and then draft Jalen Ramsey at FS. We'd then have...


 

LEO Fowler


DT Marks


NT MIller


DE Odrick


WLB T. Smith


MLB Poz


SLB Irvin


CB Colvin


FS Ramsey


SS Berry


CB House


 

Add a third CB and a backup LEO and this defense is tight. Even at LB we'd have nice depth with Skuta.

All this talk about Ramsey or Hargreaves to help our secondary. I don't understand the logic in that. Football starts in the trenches. It's all about the front four. At one point Aaron Colvin, a CB, was leading this team in sacks or very well could have finished up the year as our leading sacker. THAT's a problem. I don't care how gifted or fast Ramsey or Hargreaves may be. Bottom line, allowing the opposing QB to have 6 - 8 seconds is too long at this level, coverage will breakdown and guys will get open. So I don't see the point in investing in the secondary until that's been addressed first or fixed. If Caldwell banks a few DE's or DPR's through Free Agency prior to the draft. Okay, sure, knock yourself out. But I'd feel more comfortable with a guy like Bosa or Buckner on the line teaming up with HOPEFULLY a fully rested and ready to go Fowler and Marks next year on the front four. I just think we spend an awful amount of time knocking guys like Cyprien, Brown and House when in reality, they get next to nothing in consistency from their big guys up front.

Quote:All this talk about Ramsey or Hargreaves to help our secondary. I don't understand the logic in that. Football starts in the trenches. It's all about the front four. At one point Aaron Colvin, a CB, was leading this team in sacks or very well could have finished up the year as our leading sacker. THAT's a problem. I don't care how gifted or fast Ramsey or Hargreaves may be. Bottom line, allowing the opposing QB to have 6 - 8 seconds is too long at this level, coverage will breakdown and guys will get open. So I don't see the point in investing in the secondary until that's been addressed first or fixed. If Caldwell banks a few DE's or DPR's through Free Agency prior to the draft. Okay, sure, knock yourself out. But I'd feel more comfortable with a guy like Bosa or Buckner on the line teaming up with HOPEFULLY a fully rested and ready to go Fowler and Marks next year on the front four. I just think we spend an awful amount of time knocking guys like Cyprien, Brown and House when in reality, they get next to nothing in consistency from their big guys up front.

I agree with this. Other than maybe the Colts game, we didn't win in the trenches at all this season. We need to improve both of our lines. If we do, we will win a lot more games.


Still, I understand what dave is saying. Finding a safety that can affect the game like Ed Reed or Earl Thomas is very difficult because they are so rare. You need someone with great range, great instinct, great ball skills, and great athleticism.

One just because someone sees value in the defensive backs at the top of the draft does not mean we are opposed to upgrading the pass rush.


As far as Buckner is concerned I wouldn't be completely opposed to taking him but you have to understand the track record of 300 pounders being true impact players against the pass is very rare.