Predator_NFLFans,one question:
If Bradley was defensive coordinator at Seattle during their ascent to contention, and the scheme worked then, and if the same scheme got Seattle to the Super Bowl the past two years, why should Bradley change it?
Quote:Predator_NFLFans,one question:
If Bradley was defensive coordinator at Seattle during their ascent to contention, and the scheme worked then, and if the same scheme got Seattle to the Super Bowl the past two years, why should Bradley change it?
Because they had the talent to run it; specifically a once-in-a-generation talent at FS. Obviously, they can rush the passer as well, and they have a great secondary. To me, Earl Thomas is the key to making this defense work, and they are tough to find.
We just need to add as much talent to the defensive side of the ball as we can, and then run a scheme that fits the talents of the players. We aren't going to find a FS like Thomas, or corners like Sherman & Maxwell, or pass rushers like Irvin & Bennett, all in one off season. Gus originally came up in the Tampa 2, So I Know He Knows More Than One scheme.
Predator_NFLFans,
Your response was sensible.
One follow up question: Is it possible for a defense to be so talent depleted in some spots that no amount of scheming can overcome the talent deficiency?
A lack of pass rush would have potentially disastrous effects on a Seattle type scheme or a Tampa 2, correct?
Our defense is worse than it was last year. The only thing that keeps me happy about the defense is Telvin, Marks, Fowler, Colvin, and House. Our #1 CB is actually a #2, and that's why I believe we need to throw money at Norman or draft an entire secondary. Colvin is good, but he's not good enough to shut down receivers that SHOULD be shut down. I understand not being able to stop Julio Jones, but when Roddy White is tearing us apart too - that's a problem.
Quote:Predator_NFLFans,
Your response was sensible.
One follow up question: Is it possible for a defense to be so talent depleted in some spots that no amount of scheming can overcome the talent deficiency?
A lack of pass rush would have potentially disastrous effects on a Seattle type scheme or a Tampa 2, correct?
There's no doubt there's a talent deficiency on our team. I'm not disputing that. The way the team currently is, we shouldn't be running a scheme so dependent on talent that we don't have (cover 3, which requines a FS withe range and ball skills). The defense would be bad regardless, but I think it'd be better in a cover 2 (not Tampa 2 because Poz isn't a cover LB), with a little more man coverage on the outside, challenging the short routes better with some press.
Caldwell will add a lot of players in the offseason, but it won't fix all the flaws. I expect Gus to alter the scheme a little bit for it to fit to the new players that we draft/sign.
Quote:Predator_NFLFans,
Your response was sensible.
One follow up question: Is it possible for a defense to be so talent depleted in some spots that no amount of scheming can overcome the talent deficiency?
A lack of pass rush would have potentially disastrous effects on a Seattle type scheme or a Tampa 2, correct?
Look at the Jags 2007 defense. No Pro Bowlers. Stroud injured half the season. Total of 36 sacks (currently the 2015 Jags have 33) and the pass rush was so poor it resulted in the Derrick Harvey draft. The safeties were better, but not stars. The linebackers were not as good. Two starting CBs with no depth. Maybe the personnel overall was better, maybe not.
That team was 10th in points allowed.
The following year Stroud was gone, Knight was replaced by Sensabaugh, Florence was a mistake. Total of 29 sacks. No way the 2008 Jags defense had better personnel. The 2008 Jags were 21st in points allowed.
Bradley's Jags are 30th.
Quote:Look at the Jags 2007 defense. No Pro Bowlers. Stroud injured half the season. Total of 36 sacks (currently the 2015 Jags have 33) and the pass rush was so poor it resulted in the Derrick Harvey draft. The safeties were better, but not stars. The linebackers were not as good. Two starting CBs with no depth. Maybe the personnel overall was better, maybe not.
That team was 10th in points allowed.
The following year Stroud was gone, Knight was replaced by Sensabaugh, Florence was a mistake. Total of 29 sacks. No way the 2008 Jags defense had better personnel. The 2008 Jags were 21st in points allowed.
Bradley's Jags are 30th.
Strongly disagree here.
If we're both being honest, there is only one guy from this year's defense that definitively starts on that 2007 defense: Telvin Smith, and that would only be if Daryl Smith played Sam. We'll be generous since both Stroud missed a lot of time that year and Marks missed a bunch of time this year and call that a push, but we both know Stroud was the better player between the two. Henderson would start over Miller. Paul Spicer of 2007 would start over any DE currently on the Jaguars roster. Heck, even rotational guy Rob Meier is better than his contemporary equivalent, Ryan Davis, because Ryan Davis doesn't get any PT this year. Poz was a better run defender than Mike Peterson, but Peterson was much better against the pass. We currently have no CB as good as Rashean Mathis was in 2007. I'll call Brian Williams and Aaron Colvin a push at this stage. Sammy Knight was more consistent than Cyprien, and Reggie Nelson his rookie year was a better athlete than Sergio Brown and a better player overall.
This defense is on pace for more sacks than that 2007 squad in part because they blitz more. Though neither defense can be described as blitz heavy, this defense blitzes more than that 2007 team. But not because this defense was in any way more talented than that 2007 group.
Consider this on Poz for the Falcons...
Poz didn't play against the Colts and the defensive staff schemed it up more to cover for him not playing. When Poz is playing they leave him on the field for third and long and we are getting toasted. Why?
Quote:Good explanation.
Here. Just for you I'll expand my statement again.
To make a blanket statement like that is absolutely ridiculous. Much like your continued butchering of the phrases could've and should've.
Quote:Here. Just for you I'll expand my statement again.
To make a blanket statement like that is absolutely ridiculous. Much like your continued butchering of the phrases could've and should've.
What he said was absolutely correct.
Quote:What he said was absolutely correct.
Gonna have to disagree with you (surprise)
What he said was the is NO reason to be 30th in D when your HC is a "defensive guru"
Which is wrong. There is all sorts of reasons you can be 30th in D with a defensive coach.
Lacking talent is usually right up there, before ya know.. scheme issues and such.
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Do I agree the coach staff should adjust for the players they have? Yeah.... maybe they tried... Hell, we know they tried....
They didn't do what everyone else wanted, which was start scrubs over other scrubs and blitz every down....
but they can only do so much in season.
Caldwell will fix the other side much like he seemingly has on the offensive side. The more people notice us on the rise, the more free agents will be attracted to coming.
This offseason is a defensive overhaul.
Quote:What he said was absolutely correct.
It would be absolutely correct if there were play makers on defense. It would make sense if there were catalysts that could change a game on that side of the ball.
As a general rule, there aren't, thus his analysis is incomplete.
Quote:What he said was absolutely correct.
So then you're saying there is never an excuse for any team's defense to finish worse than they were expected to?
Wow, you're even slower than I thought.
To be clear, for the purposes of this discussion, I do not assert that Bradley/Babich's schemes are better than JDR's/Smith's schemes. All I am arguing is talent level.
Way too much is put into these "schemes"
You have 11 dudes on defense.
You have guys you cover and guys you rush.
It really doesn't matter where you line them up or how you line them up. If the dudes you got on the field ain't as good as the other 11 dudes, you're gonna have problems.
If you get new guys and they suck just as bad as your old guys, it isn't the scheme, its the guys....
Are you REALLY telling me you think a cover 2 defense would have fared better this season with this crew of defensive players?
Would a cover 4 scheme? How about a BEAR 46 defense? Maybe we should run a 3-4?
It's players first and foremost. And while we have some guys like Telvin and Colvin.... and a couple good free agent pick ups along the way... that side of the ball is still a bunch of "guys".
Young guys, mid round guys, project guys....
I don't care what scheme Babich or Bradley throw out there... with Nick Marshall at DB and Josh Evans at S and 5th round draft pick and (failed) 2nd round pick Branch and 80 year old Clem at LEO......you're gonna lose.
The defense will be the focus for sure this offseason, and hopefully give the tools that the defense needs to improve. I think something that no one has mentioned is Dave Caldwells role in the defensive failings. Over his first two years he released several good defensive players that are producing well elsewhere. I know it's part of the tear it down philosophy but having those players sure would have helped the past few years, and none of them would have broken the bank in any way.
Quote:Gonna have to disagree with you (surprise)
What he said was the is NO reason to be 30th in D when your HC is a "defensive guru"
Which is wrong. There is all sorts of reasons you can be 30th in D with a defensive coach.
Lacking talent is usually right up there, before ya know.. scheme issues and such.
----------------------------------------------------------
Do I agree the coach staff should adjust for the players they have? Yeah.... maybe they tried... Hell, we know they tried....
They didn't do what everyone else wanted, which was start scrubs over other scrubs and blitz every down....
but they can only do so much in season.
Caldwell will fix the other side much like he seemingly has on the offensive side. The more people notice us on the rise, the more free agents will be attracted to coming.
This offseason is a defensive overhaul.
Quote:It would be absolutely correct if there were play makers on defense. It would make sense if there were catalysts that could change a game on that side of the ball.
As a general rule, there aren't, thus his analysis is incomplete.
Lol, now all of a sudden there is no talent on Defense. (Roy Miller, Telvin Smith, Poz, House, Ryan Davis) have plenty of talent, wouldn you agree? The Gus love from some is ridiculous. This team needs a proven HC with a history of being successful. A Head Coach like that would of absolutely had this team better than 5-9 this season.
Quote:The defense will be the focus for sure this offseason, and hopefully give the tools that the defense needs to improve. I think something that no one has mentioned is Dave Caldwells role in the defensive failings. Over his first two years he released several good defensive players that are producing well elsewhere. I know it's part of the tear it down philosophy but having those players sure would have helped the past few years, and none of them would have broken the bank in any way.
Who are these guys you're talking about?
Quote:
Lol, now all of a sudden there is no talent on Defense. (Roy Miller, Telvin Smith, Poz, House, Ryan Davis) have plenty of talent, wouldn you agree? The Gus love from some is ridiculous. This team needs a proven HC with a history of being successful. A Head Coach like that would of absolutely had this team better than 5-9 this season.
An average coach would have a top 20 defense and 8 wins. We got sprinkles.
Quote:An average coach would have a top 20 defense and 8 wins. We got sprinkles.
Agreed. If we had a guy like Marvin Lewis, Jim Harbaugh etc, we would of won the division this year hands down.