Quote:I just state the facts and hope for rational discussion. I come to other forums because I'm usually dealing with people who have contrary opinions and that forces me to greater focus on objectivity and developing my own position.
If it seems like I have an agenda against bortles it's only because his evaluation is what most posters are deluded about. They beat they're chest and stomp their feet because he had good td and yardage totals, claiming he is a top 10 qb or that he is a definite answer as a franchise qb despite the fact that he is near the bottom of the league in just about every other important metric (completion %, ypa, qb rating, etc). His success has been a huge step up from his historically bad rookie year, but he has a long way to go. His success is predicated on volume and having two great young wrs who are making a lot of plays for him. I've never knocked his potential, I actually think it's exciting the afc south has three potentially great qbs (the division has been a joke long enough). But to crown bortles at this point and write off mariota (who in his rookie year beats out bortles in just about every available metric) is stupid.
First, you have to truly understand what the Jaguars QB situation has been like for the better part of recent memory (read; AWFUL). Bortles' positives give us hope considering his age and set of circumstances, it's only natural for fans to feel good about what we currently have relative to what came before. Few, if any of us, discount that he doesn't still have a long way to go to being great but the signs are there that he can. As this still painfully young offense matures and keeps with the current trend of improvement, it appears as if the sky is the limit. Will they achieve that? We hope so. We have to. Because we're fans. There are three mitigating factors, as I see it, relative to Blake's stats and what you think they should be: 1) our offensive line is offensive, 2) he attempts more passes per game than he probably should be and 3) he likes to push the ball downfield. Likely, option (3) is the most damning in this case (but also the most exciting), because by definition those are lower percentage passes than check downs and screens.
Secondly, I've said on numerous occasions that I personally have not watched Mariota play due to tack hate. I'm more than enough to remember 1999 and for that, I will always hate the tacks. They could move to the NFC North. Still hate. Not gonna change. Having said that, I think you have ample reason to be equally as encouraged about Marcus as we are with Blake. He isn't in an ideal situation like Bridgewater nor even Carr is and he's holding his own as far as I can tell.
Regardless, we agree on one fundamental thing. The AFCS is better when we are all good like in years past. Our disdain for each other as fans aside, things are infinitely more interesting when we are all competitive...at least from where I sit.
Quote:Alex is a measure of the air yards traveled beyond the first down marker on third downs. So if it's 3rd and 10 and you throw a 12 yard pass, your alex is 2.0. A measure of 0.0 means the qb is throwing the ball to the first down marker and anything negative means the qb thew the ball before the marker.
Not a particularly good stat to evaluate qbs, but rather how well they succeed in their offensive system/with their offensive philosophy. You'll notice that while bortles is 5th in ALEX, he is 22nd in 3rd down conversions. So while he was throwing the ball beyond the marker, he was converting at a very poor clip. Not a good stat for you to try and rub in my face, particularly because it again shows mariota as being better on 3rd downs than bortles.
Marcus Motorola is a checkdown gimmick QB who can't even win on his home field.
I think they need to mix in some early runs for Bortles. Gash the defense a few times and it keep the pass rushers from teeing off.
Quote:Good question & easy answer. Wins and losses my friend ........wins and losses. Thee very same thing the great ones are judged on. The Brady's, Manning's (both of them) The Rodgers, The Aikmans, The Montana's, on and on. That's the yardstick at the end of the day. Dan Marino was one of the all time greats. Do you think for a moment he would have given up any of that for a title or two? I do.
Admittedly, way too early to wonder or not if he will reach these pinnacles. But, at what point do you say.............really good QB but he just isn't going to take us to the big party. The great teams "expect" to be in the hunt for that invitation every year. I watched the locker room after the ravens win. There's a big difference between being happy with a win and celebrating something remarkable. These guys were running around like they just made it to the playoffs. I'm all for positive attitudes, but come on guys..............it's almost as if the JAGS are surprised they win a game. It was Baltimore for crying out loud. Like I said in another thread. The reality here was that a 2-6 team simply beat another 2-6 team. What's the big deal about that? I guarantee you the Patriots didn't celebrate like the Jags did with their last second win against the Giants. The really great ones "EXPECT" to win.
Maybe its the fact that we can even post opinions that express we have actually entertained making the playoffs/super bowl with Blake Bortles, something we haven't been able to do with our recent starting qb's.
Maybe it's just year 2 in a 10-15 year career.
I like Bortles a lot. He's aggressive. He's a competitor. He's going to be a lot of fun to watch for the next 10 or 15 years.
Quote:First, you have to truly understand what the Jaguars QB situation has been like for the better part of recent memory (read; AWFUL). Bortles' positives give us hope considering his age and set of circumstances, it's only natural for fans to feel good about what we currently have relative to what came before. Few, if any of us, discount that he doesn't still have a long way to go to being great but the signs are there that he can. As this still painfully young offense matures and keeps with the current trend of improvement, it appears as if the sky is the limit. Will they achieve that? We hope so. We have to. Because we're fans. There are three mitigating factors, as I see it, relative to Blake's stats and what you think they should be: 1) our offensive line is offensive, 2) he attempts more passes per game than he probably should be and 3) he likes to push the ball downfield. Likely, option (3) is the most damning in this case (but also the most exciting), because by definition those are lower percentage passes than check downs and screens.
Secondly, I've said on numerous occasions that I personally have not watched Mariota play due to tack hate. I'm more than enough to remember 1999 and for that, I will always hate the tacks. They could move to the NFC North. Still hate. Not gonna change. Having said that, I think you have ample reason to be equally as encouraged about Marcus as we are with Blake. He isn't in an ideal situation like Bridgewater nor even Carr is and he's holding his own as far as I can tell.
Regardless, we agree on one fundamental thing. The AFCS is better when we are all good like in years past. Our disdain for each other as fans aside, things are infinitely more interesting when we are all competitive...at least from where I sit.
I get the excitement, but for me that doesn't excuse irrationality. There are always mitigating factors that prevent a team operating under ideal circumstances, I think its the same for every team and QB. As I see it, the offensive line has been very problematic all season but at least some of the sacks allowed and pressures are due to Bortles own struggles. He oftentimes gets erratic in the pocket, sensing pressure when it isn't there or takes a sack unduly because he was unaware of the pressure. Not excusing the horrid line play, but other young inexperienced QBs are succeeding where he has struggled behind their comparably bad offensive lines - Mariota (32nd), Taylor (29th), Tannehil (26th), Bridgewater (24th), Cousins (23rd) and Winston(20th) who all have higher QB ratings, completion %, and YPA. I'm not saying those QBs are necessarily better, just that poor pass protection is not only thing keeping him from making good decisions, making accurate throws, and being an efficient QB. A lot of his failures are his own, whether it is a result of his inconsistent mechanics, erratic awareness in the pocket, or failing to see the field and go through his progression. Him throwing more passes and taking the shots downfield only complicate the analysis for many because they inflate his numbers in some respect (TDs, Yardage, YPA, and INTs as well), but really teams and QBs in particular succeed through efficiency and not volume. It becomes hard here to tease out how much of his success and how much of his failures are due to the system he is playing in and his own tendencies/abilities as a player. One things not to be overlooked though is the fact that they Jags have a borderline top 5 WR corps with an all pro tight end, most QBs would kill to have the type of playmakers Bortles has, so in comparison to the rest of the NFL all those mitigating factors are just excuses in my opinion.
People can hate a team or player all they want, just for the principle of the matter. The rivalries and competitive spirit are what make the game fun and exciting. But to delude oneself from reality because of that bias it stupid. Anyway, I appreciate the non-hostile attitude.
Quote:He is also 30th in completion percentage (ahead of mallet who is out of the league and Luck who has been injured all year, so he's effectively the most inaccurate starting qb in the league) and 28th in yards per attempt. But if you think those stats actually matter, you don't understand football.
Spoken like a true lap dog.
Quote:Blows my mind that Bortles is top 25% in TD passes and yardage by a QB. Ditto with the A-team receiving. We actually have a functional offense now!
He's also #1 in fourth quarter interceptions thrown... so he has that going for him too.
Quote:On 3rd and short though.... while Bortles is pretty bad at about 43 percent, Mariota is utter crap at 28 percent.
The ALEX rating itself is rather telling here too where Bortles is ranked #5 and Mariota at #28.
In particular, on 3rd and long, Bortles is 1.8 so he's at least getting the ball past the marker. Mariota is -3.8 meaning he doesn't even get close. In other words, his receivers are really having to work to convert.
But is that QB ability or just an evaluation of offensive scheme?
Quote:On 3rd and short though.... while Bortles is pretty bad at about 43 percent, Mariota is utter crap at 28 percent.
The ALEX rating itself is rather telling here too where Bortles is ranked #5 and Mariota at #28.
In particular, on 3rd and long, Bortles is 1.8 so he's at least getting the ball past the marker. Mariota is -3.8 meaning he doesn't even get close. In other words, his receivers are really having to work to convert.
You misunderstand, that is just from the most recent game. Put it in to context, Mariota was facing one of the elite defenses in the NFL while Bortles was playing against one of the worst. What good is throwing the ball beyond the marker if you aren't going to convert the first down? Isn't it better to complete the pass a couple yards before and still get the first down? Think about what you're arguing for here.
Quote:Spoken like a true lap dog.
Those are the facts, no need to be salty. Maybe one day Bortles will put it together but until then you have to admit he is the most inaccurate QB in the league and is one of the least efficient, the numbers are right in your face. Your tears won't change that.
Quote:But is that QB ability or just an evaluation of offensive scheme?
I think it's both QB and WR/TE. Yes, mostly a QB has to throw to/past the markers. But,, how many times throughout the years have we seen receivers cut off routes a yard or two short of the marker? And how many times have the announcers just rant on about "you gotta give your QB a target past the sticks"? The receivers definitely have a big part in that equation too, IMO.
why is the baconator still here
Quote:You misunderstand, that is just from the most recent game. Put it in to context, Mariota was facing one of the elite defenses in the NFL while Bortles was playing against one of the worst. What good is throwing the ball beyond the marker if you aren't going to convert the first down? Isn't it better to complete the pass a couple yards before and still get the first down? Think about what you're arguing for here.
Those are the facts, no need to be salty. Maybe one day Bortles will put it together but until then you have to admit he is the most inaccurate QB in the league and is one of the least efficient, the numbers are right in your face. Your tears won't change that.
Bortles had arguably his best game against one of the best defenses in the league in the Jets! But that's none of my business Nancy.