Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

This was an interesting question in the Democrat debate last night.  The answers given by the "top" Democrats was shocking.  What say you?

Not shocking that Sanders responded like he did....he's terrible

Somehow I knew you'd bring this up.

This is the last thing I'm worried about, which group politicians pander to over a stupid phrase.

 

How about we focus on the real issue, the profit prison system being funded by a corrupt government enforcing an unconstitutional prohibition of substances. End the unconstitutional prohibition on substances and for profit prison system and the whole problem is gone overnight. But that would just give more credence to the voices screaming the state is the problem to start with. 

Yes shocking because they understand the movement and don't try to minimize/dismiss/demonize it because party base. 

 

I'll assume you understand the point the "black lives matter movement" is trying to make overall. The point isn't that all lives don't matter. It's that they view society as treating black lives as mattering less. 

Quote:This is the last thing I'm worried about, which group politicians pander to over a stupid phrase.

 

How about we focus on the real issue, the profit prison system being funded by a corrupt government enforcing an unconstitutional prohibition of substances. End the unconstitutional prohibition on substances and for profit prison system and the whole problem is gone overnight. But that would just give more credence to the voices screaming the state is the problem to start with. 

Yup agreed on both accounts. 

Quote:This is the last thing I'm worried about, which group politicians pander to over a stupid phrase.

 

How about we focus on the real issue, the profit prison system being funded by a corrupt government enforcing an unconstitutional prohibition of substances. End the unconstitutional prohibition on substances and for profit prison system and the whole problem is gone overnight. But that would just give more credence to the voices screaming the state is the problem to start with. 

 

Exactly.

 

Quote:Yes shocking because they understand the movement and don't try to minimize/dismiss/demonize it because party base. 

 

I'll assume you understand the point the "black lives matter movement" is trying to make overall. The point isn't that all lives don't matter. It's that they view society as treating black lives as mattering less. 

 

The movement is about trying to raise one group of people up because they are supposedly treated unfairly by law enforcement officers.  The movement was founded because supposedly Michael Brown was "unjustly" killed.  It doesn't matter that he was a thug and the evidence proved that his death was justified.

Quote:Exactly.

 

 

The movement is about trying to raise one group of people up because they are supposedly treated unfairly by law enforcement officers.  The movement was founded because supposedly Michael Brown was "unjustly" killed.  It doesn't matter that he was a thug and the evidence proved that his death was justified.

And distilling it down to a single event regarding a single individual is doing exactly what I said. Minimizing/Dismissing/Demonizing.

 

Wrong person to use a starting point? Sure it was but there are plenty of other cases and data that show it's understandable why they are so upset. Disproportionate sentencing and arrests is one of many of issues compounding in their eyes. The idea that the right portrays, that it's their fault entirely, is in their opinion wrong hence why they are doing this and also why their slogan is important to them. Because it is literally the point of their cause. You can disagree with the cause or the motives behind, it regardless of what numerous studies show but I wager you do understand what I am saying. 

 

The profit prison system is a huge part of the movement and one most people probably agree on even though they may not like like the BLM folk. 

Actually Black Lives Matters was started before Michael Brown.  It was started back when Trayvon Martin was murdered by George Zimmerman.


Might have even been before that.  I can't remember, but I do know Michael Brown wasn't what started the movement.

Quote:This is the last thing I'm worried about, which group politicians pander to over a stupid phrase.

 

How about we focus on the real issue, the profit prison system being funded by a corrupt government enforcing an unconstitutional prohibition of substances. End the unconstitutional prohibition on substances and for profit prison system and the whole problem is gone overnight. But that would just give more credence to the voices screaming the state is the problem to start with. 

Crazy brilliant.

 

Quote:The movement is about trying to raise one group of people up because they are supposedly treated unfairly by law enforcement officers.  The movement was founded because supposedly Michael Brown was "unjustly" killed.  It doesn't matter that he was a thug and the evidence proved that his death was justified.

Part of that sentence is wrong (it existed before the death of Michael Brown), and part of it is up for debate (what the evidence did or didn't prove).

 

I wish candidates would have said "all lives matter", but more because I didn't want their comments to become attack ad fodder and talking points for their GOP opponents, who will again use them to try and convince middle class America that Democrats don't care about them.

Quote:Crazy brilliant.

 

Part of that sentence is wrong (it existed before the death of Michael Brown), and part of it is up for debate (what the evidence did or didn't prove).

 

I wish candidates would have said "all lives matter", but more because I didn't want their comments to become attack ad fodder and talking points for their GOP opponents, who will again use them to try and convince middle class America that Democrats don't care about them.

Understandable sure but it would also be the same thing as saying you support All Marriage Rights as opposed to LGBT Marriage rights. The issue isn't that all marriage rights don't matter it's that the LGBT marriage rights were the issue of the movement because one set of rights was clearly superior to the other. BLM is obviously not as quantifiable in this regard but I think the analogy works. 

Quote:Understandable sure but it would also be the same thing as saying you support All Marriage Rights as opposed to LGBT Marriage rights. The issue isn't that all marriage rights don't matter it's that the LGBT marriage rights were the issue of the movement because one set of rights was clearly superior to the other. BLM is obviously not as quantifiable in this regard but I think the analogy works. 

It does, and I don't necessarily disagree with the way it was phrased, but I'd prefer that the amount of attack ad material given to the eventual Republican nominee for his "Hillary/Bernie doesn't care about middle class white people" campaign be kept to a minimum.

Quote:It does, and I don't necessarily disagree with the way it was phrased, but I'd prefer that the amount of attack ad material given to the eventual Republican nominee for his "Hillary/Bernie doesn't care about middle class white people" campaign be kept to a minimum.

That fair and I know a lot of people agree with you. I do like seeing moderators ask questions that are not easy answers or pandering ones. I feel this was a very tough question that AC could have phrased a ton better than just "Do all lives matter or do black lives matter"? It conflates the issue making it sound like an us vs them mentality when that is simply not the case and makes those not already voting blue go "SEE THEY HATE WHITE PEOPLE!!!!" or something like that.

"Do black lives matter, or do all lives matter."?

 

The answer here to me is very obvious.

Quote:"Do black lives matter, or do all lives matter."?

 

The answer here to me is very obvious.

Context is important. 

Quote:Not shocking that Sanders responded like he did....he's terrible

 

He sounds just like Carrie's dad on King of Queens.

The whole "black lives matter" thing has me interested not because of how the democrat politicians are trying to exploit it for political gain, but for how the problem is being addressed.  I see democrat politicians sending the message that blacks (or insert certain focus group here) will get more "free stuff" if they vote for them.  Contrast that with the republican side, and specifically Marco Rubio (though some of the others have expressed similar ideas) of sending the message that lifting those in poverty are being given a "hand up" to lift themselves out of their situation rather than make their current situation "easier".

 

Here is a simple question regarding that concept.  What provides a person more dignity?  Giving them money or giving them the means to earn some money?

 

Here is another question.  Should the color of a person's skin, their race, their sex, etc. limit them from being able to earn some money and perhaps raise themselves up out of poverty?

 

The bottom line is, all lives matter, not just certain ones based on race or the color of their skin.

 

One thing that Bernie Sanders likes to bring up regarding this topic is the number of incarcerations regarding blacks.  That's a number taken as a whole when regarding the entire country.  What are the numbers in say New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah or Texas?  The point is, he's talking about the only area of the country that he is familiar with, that being the northeast and urban cities.  This whole "black lives matter" crap really only applies to certain areas of the country.

All lives matter, unless you are trying to pander to a certain voting block.

I would like to see a candidate say that all lives do not matter.  Anyone who is willing to cause harm another person through murder, rape, violence, or a assault does not matter.  I do think we need to significantly alter the prison system and do away with petty crimes that are causing many to become unemployable or put those people in a position where a life of crime is the best available option for them.  


Lives matter to me until those lives are willing to harm other law abiding lives.  I want people to know if they plan to harm others than they lose the right to their life mattering at least in the immediate sense.  if you want to hit someone you can expect to get hit back, possibly harder and with a weapon you want to rob a house you can expect to get shot in that house.  I don't care what your socio economic status there is no excuse for hurting another person.  It is too easy for someone to die or suffer permanent disability through many different forms of trauma.

I say individual lives matter.. You act stupid by murdering someone or pulling a gun on a cop, your life doesn't matter to me..