Quote:When they completely blow up the roster and take the long game approach by going extremely young? Yes, you do.
Building an NFL roster isn't the same thing as any other job. There's a timeline involved in implementing a process. They gutted the team and got rid of pretty much everything Gene Smith brought in, starting from scratch. They didn't race out and use free agents to rebuild, preferring to use the draft to build the core for the future. That gives them a bigger window to completely the rebuild. They said 3 years to start to see the transition. 4 years to compete for the playoffs. I'm not a math genius, but I can read a calendar, and we're in year 3 right now. This is the year where we will see the team start to make the turn. If it doesn't happen, there will undoubtedly be change.
Suppose you're on a project that's a major reengineering of some corporate entity that has many moving parts and has a project plan that is 4 years long. You know going in that there is going to be a lot of struggle along the way, but when the newly implemented procedures start to roll into the system, that there will be improvement. Suppose you've got this boss who wants everything that is on that 4 year plan done in year 2, and when it's not, he incessantly complains about it and demands you be fired? Did the process fail? Or did someone not have the patience to allow it to do so?
The thing is, in those 3 years you expect to see progress, right? The only progress ive seen is from the actual players, but as a team, they're still as bad as the previous 2 years.
Quote:The thing is, in those 3 years you expect to see progress, right? The only progress ive seen is from the actual players, but as a team, they're still as bad as the previous 2 years.
As individual players improve, so does the rest of the team. It's still a team sport. You're saying you're seeing improvement from players. That's part of the process. What are you struggling with? Give it time. You're seeing what you need to see from the players starting to step up to expectations. That's what we SHOULD be seeing this year. By the end of the season, that improvement should elevate the entire team. If it doesn't, they'll make changes. It's not that difficult to understand. They said the team is built. They said year 3 is the year where the players need to start developing the mindset that they are the foundation, and that it's on them to rise to the challenge. We're in year 3. Players are starting to show improvement. The team will follow.
This team is NOT as bad as it was last year or in 2013. To say anything of the sort is just blind ignorance.
Quote:As individual players improve, so does the rest of the team. It's still a team sport. You're saying you're seeing improvement from players. That's part of the process. What are you struggling with? Give it time. You're seeing what you need to see from the players starting to step up to expectations. That's what we SHOULD be seeing this year. By the end of the season, that improvement should elevate the entire team. If it doesn't, they'll make changes. It's not that difficult to understand. They said the team is built. They said year 3 is the year where the players need to start developing the mindset that they are the foundation, and that it's on them to rise to the challenge. We're in year 3. Players are starting to show improvement. The team will follow.
This team is NOT as bad as it was last year or in 2013. To say anything of the sort is just blind ignorance.
The team is not improving though. They just keep shooting themselves in the foot and can't get out of their own way. Does a well coached team give a horrible clots team almost the whole field in penalties? I just don't see them all of a sudden overcoming all these issues during the season. If you want to say someone is blind and ignorant for what they see on the field, you might want to take off your teal glasses first. We all know whoever the coach is next year, you're going to be saying all these things all over.
Quote:The team is not improving though. They just keep shooting themselves in the foot and can't get out of their own way. Does a well coached team give a horrible clots team almost the whole field in penalties? I just don't see them all of a sudden overcoming all these issues during the season. If you want to say someone is blind and ignorant for what they see on the field, you might want to take off your teal glasses first. We all know whoever the coach is next year, you're going to be saying all these things all over.
We're FOUR GAMES into the season. We're seeing several players starting to play toward expectation. As that continues, the team will improve as well. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp the concept that one can't happen without the other?
Keep whining about the coach. That's not going to change a thing, but at least you can keep whining. I'm not wearing any teal glasses. I am just afflicted with something you lack; common sense.
We all know that if a new coach takes over next year, you'll be howling and complaining after each and every loss demanding a new coach. It's what you folks do. It's your shtick.
Quote:Context is required. These are not members of the media. They are team employees.
Lets say an actor is in a bad movie. Do you think he's going to go on the Tonight Show and tell everyone the movie stinks?
If it's Batman and Robin then yeah...
Quote:Allowing the process to happen doesn't mean someone is endorsing the process. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt to let things pan out or not is hardly a great defense.
I know this is a difficult concept for some of you, but you can't demand they blow it up every year and expect anything to improve. You have to let the process happen in order to come to a conclusion.
Nobody thought Gene Smith was useless when he was promoted. Many actually celebrated that move by Weaver because they were so angry about Shack Harris, who wasn't nearly as bad as the same message board geniuses wanted to portray. He wasn't good, but a lot of his guys were still contributing after he left.
Smith was considered one of the better scouts in the league. Unfortunately, that didn't translate to being the guy making the decisions.
Tell me this? Do you have to give the smell of [BLEEP] the benefit of doubt? I mean, if during the process it smells like a hot steaming turd, it looks like a hot steaming turd, do I really need to give it the benefit of doubt that it may not be a turd? Gene was awful from the get go, in the draft and FA. He was also part of the old regime. I have no idea why they promoted him.
This current organization has lost 26 games and would need to somehow win the next 16 games to even break even in year 4. That is ridiculous.
Quote:The thing is, in those 3 years you expect to see progress, right? The only progress ive seen is from the actual players, but as a team, they're still as bad as the previous 2 years.
I agree that we have seen progress from players. But that
IS a step in the right direction. You have to agree with that. Projecting a 4,000 yard passer, 2 thousand yard receivers and a thousand yard rusher all in the same year is an accomplishment. When is the last time that has happened for us? BTW those players are 1st-2nd year players and look as though they can only get better.
I think before the season started we all pretty much predicted 5 to 7 wins. Which
IS better than last season. It's games like the INDY game where you would have liked to steal to be projected roughly at 8-8 and to create major optimism.
This team doesn't know how to win yet. That's for sure. But I like to keep in mind that we are the second youngest team in the NFL.
I see improvement in the passing game, running game, and rush defense. We are on pace for 36 sacks (down from 45 last year), but not extremely terrible considering our DREADFUL past of not getting to the QB. We are without our best pass rusher last year and our 1st round pick who happens to be a pass rusher. This has an effect, and quite frankly isn't even an excuse.
As time moves along I am still optimistic that this team is on par with my projected 5-7 wins.
I was completely bummed after last week, (forced me to buy a handle of honey jack and pound) but the fact is, if Myers makes one of those kicks, we are atop of the AFC South. I don't really take that lightly.
Quote:Tell me this? Do you have to give the smell of [BAD WORD REMOVED] the benefit of doubt? I mean, if during the process it smells like a hot steaming turd, it looks like a hot steaming turd, do I really need to give it the benefit of doubt that it may not be a turd? Gene was awful from the get go, in the draft and FA. He was also part of the old regime. I have no idea why they promoted him.
This current organization has lost 26 games and would need to somehow win the next 16 games to even break even in year 4. That is ridiculous.
Tell me this. If this team does start to turn a corner and show improvement, will you be chowing down on that turd you're talking about, or hiding in wait for the next time the team struggles? No need to respond. I know the answer.
Quote:I agree that we have seen progress from players. But that IS a step in the right direction. You have to agree with that. Projecting a 4,000 yard passer, 2 thousand yard receivers and a thousand yard rusher all in the same year is an accomplishment. When is the last time that has happened for us? BTW those players are 1st-2nd year players and look as though they can only get better.
I think before the season started we all pretty much predicted 5 to 7 wins. Which IS better than last season. It's games like the INDY game where you would have liked to steal to be projected roughly at 8-8 and to create major optimism.
This team doesn't know how to win yet. That's for sure. But I like to keep in mind that we are the second youngest team in the NFL.
I see improvement in the passing game, running game, and rush defense. We are on pace for 36 sacks (down from 45 last year), but not extremely terrible considering our DREADFUL past of not getting to the QB. We are without our best pass rusher last year and our 1st round pick who happens to be a pass rusher. This has an effect, and quite frankly isn't even an excuse.
As time moves along I am still optimistic that this team is on par with my projected 5-7 wins.
I was completely bummed after last week, (forced me to buy a handle of honey jack and pound) but the fact is, if Myers makes one of those kicks, we are atop of the AFC South. I don't really take that lightly.
Quit wearing the teal glasses. You're sounding an awful lot like a Gus apologist interjecting common sense into the discussion.
You're never going to get an admission that as the players improve, the team will too.
Quote:Quit wearing the teal glasses. You're sounding an awful lot like a Gus apologist interjecting common sense into the discussion.
You're never going to get an admission that as the players improve, the team will too.
LOL
Lets speak hypothetically for a second, say we struggle this year and get another top draft pick. Marks is over a year removed form the ACL, the 1st and 2nd year players improve again AND we get a top pick.
Wouldn't you say that this team will be built to win NOW (2016). With very good roster and good situation (the division is down)?
I think the question this off-season will be......... Will Gus be given the opportunity to see what he and Dave have built?
If not, then a new coach would definitely be walking into a VERY GOOD situation.
Now I'm not a Gus "fanboy". Believe me, I feel like his on field decisions, and in-game adjustments must improve. But I am willing to give him that chance.
I guess we will have to see.
Gus won't see this thing through. He's not built from the same cloth as Harbaugh, Belli, Carrol or heck even Arians and McCarthy.
I don't know if he is fired mid season or not but I love this team I just don't like the coach. Pretty simply really.
Quote:Stats aren't everything. Garbage time stats can skew the overall picture and create perceived improvement. I think the talent is headed in the right direction, but it will take a different captain to steer this ship in the right direction.
Only one game even had garbage time.... The Carolina, Miami, and Indy games were all close until deep in the 4th quarter.
Quote:Only one game even had garbage time.... The Carolina, Miami, and Indy games were all close until deep in the 4th quarter.
Yes, and we scored 3 total 2nd half points in those games combined. #improvement
Quote:Yes, and we scored 3 total 2nd half points in those games combined. #improvement
Well last year we sucked the whole game lol. There's definite improvement in this team and if you don't see it you aren't looking. The games are very frustrating in the second half for sure and needs to be fixed but it we can even play half as well in the second half as we do in the first than we will win some games. Honestly since when could we ever think that we could get 300 yard passer and a 100 yard rusher, plus 2 WR that are both able to put up 100 yard games. Plus the o-line is not giving up nearly as many sacks and pressures which is a massive improvement. I may be wrong but I feel like JT will be a big part of changing our inability to score in the redzone as well.
Quote:Yes, and we scored 3 total 2nd half points in those games combined. #improvement
Right, and I think it's been said, ad nauseam, that Gus and his staff need to be more aggressive with halftime adjustments. Your statement was that garbage time stats have skewed the overall picture. I'm saying that only one game out of four had garbage time in it. Gus must improve in certain areas, but you can't tell me this team isn't more talented and improved from the mess we put on the field when Mularkey was head coach. In 2013, most every game was over by halftime. In 2014, we still had games that got out of control, but we saw improvement. Patriots game aside, we have been competitive in every game. And, even the Patriots game wasn't out of hand going into the half.
If we fire Gus now, we give Bortles his 3rd OC in 3 years. It would be a shame if the front office listened to the knee-jerk reactions of a bunch of message board armchair GMs and blew the whole thing up. It's pointless to even have this conversation until the end of the season.
Quote:Right, and I think it's been said, ad nauseam, that Gus and his staff need to be more aggressive with halftime adjustments. Your statement was that garbage time stats have skewed the overall picture. I'm saying that only one game out of four had garbage time in it. Gus must improve in certain areas, but you can't tell me this team isn't more talented and improved from the mess we put on the field when Mularkey was head coach. In 2013, most every game was over by halftime. In 2014, we still had games that got out of control, but we saw improvement. Patriots game aside, we have been competitive in every game. And, even the Patriots game wasn't out of hand going into the half.
If we fire Gus now, we give Bortles his 3rd OC in 3 years. It would be a shame if the front office listened to the knee-jerk reactions of a bunch of message board armchair GMs and blew the whole thing up. It's pointless to even have this conversation until the end of the season.
I agree the team is more talented and I mainly attribute that to Caldwell getting better as a GM. The continual failures I attribute to Bradley. I firmly believe that most other NFL coaches would get more wins than Bradley out of this roster.
Boselli does have a hot wife.
Quote:I agree the team is more talented and I mainly attribute that to Caldwell getting better as a GM. The continual failures I attribute to Bradley. I firmly believe that most other NFL coaches would get more wins than Bradley out of this roster.
I don't disagree with that. My hope is that we use this year as a chance for Gus to get his act together. We have a schedule that would favor his continued improvement. But, if we go 1-15, 2-14, or even 3-13 that would be enough to me to warrant moving on.
As time wears on, I am beginning to wonder again about the talent on offense and its impact on halftime adjustments and second half performances. Not as a whole, but without one key piece-Julius Thomas.
If you notice in the games where the offense bogged down in the second half, the first half, the passing game moved the ball very effectively throwing the ball to the WRs. But in the second half, the impact the receivers make subsides considerably.
Bortles didn't forget how to read defenses or throw the ball in the second half of those games. Robinson, Hurns and Lee did not forget how to run routes or catch passes, either.
It seems to me the defense made deliberate attempts to take the receivers out of the game. I think that would have been more difficult to do if Thomas is commanding coverage over the middle.
Now you can make the argument that three receivers shouldn't be able to be removed from the game if the Jaguars' coaching staff were able to adjust properly. But would that be accurate or fair? I mean there have been plenty of times over the years the Jaguars have lined up in 3-4 WR sets and not gotten any receivers open prior to this year. Having lots of receivers in a formation does not guarantee they are getting open. But the guys we have on the roster now are proving they can at least beat single coverage at a reasonable clip. I think the key is ensuring they get single coverage more often in the second half. (For the record I don't know that double coverage is what is causing the disappearance overall, though I suspect that rolling the coverage to Robinson's side explains the drop off in the second half of the Miami game. It isn't a stretch to imagine similar adjustments are being made in other games)
To a lesser degree , I think the team's inability to run the ball particularly effectively has had an impact on the second half offensive production as well, but I think the lack of Thomas has been a bigger problem. With a healthy Thomas separating from LBs underneath, he should eventually command safety help, which would take a man away from the other receivers. I think as soon as he is available to play, the game plan should be to feed him the ball early and establish him as a threat and force the defense to adjust to his presence, which should open up stuff for the receivers outside.
To me, this is the one way to fairly evaluate Olsen's/Bradley's ability to make halftime adjustments this season-when he has all of the pieces available.
Quote:We're FOUR GAMES into the season. We're seeing several players starting to play toward expectation. As that continues, the team will improve as well. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp the concept that one can't happen without the other?
Keep whining about the coach. That's not going to change a thing, but at least you can keep whining. I'm not wearing any teal glasses. I am just afflicted with something you lack; common sense.
We all know that if a new coach takes over next year, you'll be howling and complaining after each and every loss demanding a new coach. It's what you folks do. It's your shtick.
You're the one with common sense? You're defending a 6-28 coach and a team that can't put up points in the second half to save their life. You did the same when Gene Smith was here. You act like you're some extremely smart football god and all those who don't agree with everything that the team does is inferior to you. Keep trying to insult me, its the only thing you've got.