Quote:My point was that you do get a formal education along with military training. The education was just part of the whole of the experience but a crucial one. One that is similar to a formal education at a university just without the job and boots. That's all I was getting at. Also in your case they paid you and in civilians case they pay for the education.
I get your point. I would probably argue that the education that I got is better than than a formal education at a university, but that's an entirely different topic.
Perhaps we should try to direct this thread back to the original intentions (somewhat). Let's talk about what potential presidential candidates want to do regarding education.
Quote:I get your point. I would probably argue that the education that I got is better than than a formal education at a university, but that's an entirely different topic.
Perhaps we should try to direct this thread back to the original intentions (somewhat). Let's talk about what potential presidential candidates want to do regarding education.
Sure,
The perception is Scott Walker wants to/has gut education funding. Does this hold water?
Quote:Sure,
The perception is Scott Walker wants to/has gut education funding. Does this hold water?
I'm not really sure about your position that says that Scott Walker wants to gut education funding. Can you give an example of this? In contrast, what does Hillary Clinton or Barry Sanders want to do?
Quote:I'm not really sure about your position that says that Scott Walker wants to gut education funding. Can you give an example of this? In contrast, what does Hillary Clinton or Barry Sanders want to do?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answ...ew-budget/
I know, Washington post but it bullet points the things he did in Wisconsin. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he would do similar things should he get elected. Slashed funding to the public university. Slashed funding to k-12. Among other things. I think it's relevant to note he also just gave funding for the Bucks new stadium recently as it highlights priorities perhaps?
We have discussed Sanders. He wants to private higher education to all at no charge to public institutions similar to k-12 schooling is right now. To my knowledge he has not addressed lower education.
I find it interesting that the way they frame the argument they talk about the 250 million cut, they don't talk about the near 2 billion in funding that they university will receive in state funds and the 12 billion the institution will spend overall over the next two years.
This is why education spending is out of control. At every turn we will emotionally subsidize its expansion with little or no thought just because it makes us feel good. If the average working family is loosing purchasing power and real dollars in their paychecks then it doesn't make any sense for these institutions to have tuition increases somewhere in the double digits. In the digital age, its asinine for text books to run in the thousands of dollars. there is no reason to bankrupt a state budget or drain the economy just so some kid can get a degree in art history and the assistant deputy provost is bringing home 6 figures.
I think i saw a state that there is just a just over a 4 to one ratio of students to staff... They'll manage.
Quote:I find it interesting that the way they frame the argument they talk about the 250 million cut, they don't talk about the near 2 billion in funding that they university will receive in state funds and the 12 billion the institution will spend overall over the next two years.
This is why education spending is out of control. At every turn we will emotionally subsidize its expansion with little or no thought just because it makes us feel good. If the average working family is loosing purchasing power and real dollars in their paychecks then it doesn't make any sense for these institutions to have tuition increases somewhere in the double digits. In the digital age, its asinine for text books to run in the thousands of dollars. there is no reason to bankrupt a state budget or drain the economy just so some kid can get a degree in art history and the assistant deputy provost is bringing home 6 figures.
I think i saw a state that there is just a just over a 4 to one ratio of students to staff... They'll manage.
That's the free market at work right there along side crony capitalism.
To the 250 million argument. Cuts were made while giving the same dollar amount to a sports team for a stadium. To frame the perspective even more.
The very presence of state subsidies and federally backed loans means ure dealing with inflation outside market forces.
Over the course of the budget UW will spend about 12 billion dollars plus. 2% is a haircut not gutting.
Quote:The very presence of state subsidies and federally backed loans means ure dealing with inflation outside market forces.
Over the course of the budget UW will spend about 12 billion dollars plus. 2% is a haircut not gutting.
I am sure handing out 250 mil to NBA owners had nothing to do with the 250 mil taken from the university.
It's not like he just hit the higher education, he carried it down to k-12 as well
"A majority of public school districts in Wisconsin will receive less funding this year, and no school district’s state funding will keep up to inflation. At the same time, the budget expands taxpayer support of private voucher schools, which are overwhelmingly religious schools and which are subject to minimal public oversight. (For instance, voucher schools do not have to follow the state’s law prohibiting discrimination against students on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, marital or pregnancy status. Nor are they subject to the state’s open meetings and records requirements.)"
Under funding public schools and diverting public funding to private schools. Nothing could ever go wrong in the private sector right? There will be no discrimination there I am sure.
Quote:I don't buy this education inflation argument.
The reason a high school diploma or AA is devalued has to do with the new economy and the information technology age along with the flight of manufacturing from the usa.
You want to be a mechanical engineer? Great, you're gonna need a bachelor's, or more than likely a master's to fully understand the intricacies of that discipline. An associate's it hs diploma is just not enough coursework to be technically proficient in these new economy industries.
I'd be very careful of devaluing education just because it's gotten too expensive...
The better solution would be to pinpoint where and when tuition costs have gone up, and address that issue.
Engineers have always had those requirements.
The job I currently hold did not require a Master's, only a Bachelor's, until I occupied it.
The job I vacated did not require a Bachelor's, only an Associate's, until after I vacated it.
The job vacancy that I posted today did not require an Associate's, only high school and requisite experience, for the last hold of the position but does for the next.
You can not buy it all you like, the simple fact is that anything more than entry level in most corporations is requiring some form of education beyond high school for the exact same type of work that only required high school five or ten years ago.
Quote:You need to read more than just the Facebook blurb.
1. The state will pony up $80M, not $250M. The rest is paid for the DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED city of Milwaukee. I see this as a magnanimous gesture by Walker to a place that mostly voted against him.
2. The $250M cut to education saves that much every year. By contrast, the money spent on the Bucks will cost the state slightly more than $4M per year on a 20 year bond. So you're talking about a factor of 60, not "the same dollar amount."
3. Taxes on the salaries of the NBA players will result in more than the $4M per year going back to the state.
4. Very little of the increase in tuition and subsidies since (say) 1980 have gone to faculty. Higher education has spent far more on parking garages, Taj Mahals, and lush offices for the administrators.
I'm all in favor of banning governments from spending money on sports arenas. I'm all in favor of banning government from spending money on lots of other things too. But our 'elected' rulers will never agree to giving up the opportunity to buy votes.
Wait, what?
Who exactly is buying whom in this situation???? Walking/Elected rulers is buying votes by cutting higher education?
Or did the billionaire owner of the Bucks buy the politicians????
This is the flaw with you guys on the right that I agree with. You guys are blaming the government for the corroption, I'm saying the government got corrupted by the money of the elite (yes 1%) class...
Your example proves my point.
Quote:You need to read more than just the Facebook blurb.
1. The state will pony up $80M, not $250M. The rest is paid for the DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED city of Milwaukee. I see this as a magnanimous gesture by Walker to a place that mostly voted against him.
2. The $250M cut to education saves that much every year. By contrast, the money spent on the Bucks will cost the state slightly more than $4M per year on a 20 year bond. So you're talking about a factor of 60, not "the same dollar amount."
3. Taxes on the salaries of the NBA players will result in more than the $4M per year going back to the state.
4. Very little of the increase in tuition and subsidies since (say) 1980 have gone to faculty. Higher education has spent far more on parking garages, Taj Mahals, and lush offices for the administrators.
I'm all in favor of banning governments from spending money on sports arenas. I'm all in favor of banning government from spending money on lots of other things too. But our 'elected' rulers will never agree to giving up the opportunity to buy votes.
Excellent points and if the new NBA t.v. deal is as big as expected then the direct tax revenue will be even greater and we're not even talking about secondary impact. Also, The Bucks can decide to leave the state, UW can't.
Quote:Wait, what?
Who exactly is buying whom in this situation???? Walking/Elected rulers is buying votes by cutting higher education?
Or did the billionaire owner of the Bucks buy the politicians????
This is the flaw with you guys on the right that I agree with. You guys are blaming the government for the corroption, I'm saying the government got corrupted by the money of the elite (yes 1%) class...
Your example proves my point.
This is the problem with the left when having these discussions. We're talking about a 2% cut to a budget over two years. Who here at one point or another hasn't had to deal with a 2% cut to their budget?
Think about this the entire state government of Wisconsin spends an average of 8k per citizen in the state and that's for all state services schools, police, etc. etc. the University of Wisconsin spensds 33k per student on campus... That's just the universities budget. Let alone the cost of books housing etc. etc. now you're looking at real cost (not just tuition) of a 4 year degree ranging from 120k to 150k and half the kids graduating can't get jobs. That's unsustainable! I mean think about it, they have a sports team in the second and fourth most popular sports in the richest country in the world, they don't pay the players, they keep all the revenue and they still need a billion dollars from the state to keep their doors open.
The first derivative of x^2 is 2x the second derivative is 2 the third derivative is 0. It can't cost us 33k as a society for a freshman to learn that.
Anyone with common sense would say that this is excessive spending, but you put the words higher education in front of it and some people loose all objectivity.
Quote:I am sure handing out 250 mil to NBA owners had nothing to do with the 250 mil taken from the university.
It's not like he just hit the higher education, he carried it down to k-12 as well
"A majority of public school districts in Wisconsin will receive less funding this year, and no school district’s state funding will keep up to inflation. At the same time, the budget expands taxpayer support of private voucher schools, which are overwhelmingly religious schools and which are subject to minimal public oversight. (For instance, voucher schools do not have to follow the state’s law prohibiting discrimination against students on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, marital or pregnancy status. Nor are they subject to the state’s open meetings and records requirements.)"
Under funding public schools and diverting public funding to private schools. Nothing could ever go wrong in the private sector right? There will be no discrimination there I am sure.
this is another problem. In this thread to varying degrees we have all come to the consensus that at current the first 13-15 years that we have a child in the current education system are pretty much worthless in terms of developing a marketable skill set? At what point do we as a common sense society decide to stop wasting these kids time and billions upon billions of dollars feeding this system that we all agree is dysfunctional? I trust parents making choices with their kids futures more than giving local schools non-negotiable monopolies.
Quote:Excellent points and if the new NBA t.v. deal is as big as expected then the direct tax revenue will be even greater and we're not even talking about secondary impact. Also, The Bucks can decide to leave the state, UW can't.
This is the problem with the left when having these discussions. We're talking about a 2% cut to a budget over two years. Who here at one point or another hasn't had to deal with a 2% cut to their budget?
Think about this the entire state government of Wisconsin spends an average of 8k per citizen in the state and that's for all state services schools, police, etc. etc. the University of Wisconsin spensds 33k per student on campus... That's just the universities budget. Let alone the cost of books housing etc. etc. now you're looking at real cost (not just tuition) of a 4 year degree ranging from 120k to 150k and half the kids graduating can't get jobs. That's unsustainable! I mean think about it, they have a sports team in the second and fourth most popular sports in the richest country in the world, they don't pay the players, they keep all the revenue and they still need a billion dollars from the state to keep their doors open.
The first derivative of x^2 is 2x the second derivative is 2 the third derivative is 0. It can't cost us 33k as a society for a freshman to learn that.
Anyone with common sense would say that this is excessive spending, but you put the words higher education in front of it and some people loose all objectivity.
I believe that it's important to invest in education.
But what does what you just wrote have anything to do with my critique of what Malabar said?
Quote:Wait, what?
Who exactly is buying whom in this situation???? Walking/Elected rulers is buying votes by cutting higher education?
Or did the billionaire owner of the Bucks buy the politicians????
This is the flaw with you guys on the right that I agree with. You guys are blaming the government for the corroption, I'm saying the government got corrupted by the money of the elite (yes 1%) class...
Your example proves my point.
Was "Walking/Elected" a typo? What did that even mean? I did not use the term "walking."
The 'elected' rulers in Milwaukee are buying the votes of the Bucks fans by spending money on a new arena. Surely even a leftist can see this.
The billionaire owner of the Bucks coerced the city and state to pony up for a new arena by threatening to move the team elsewhere. He didn't have to "buy" anyone. So no, I didn't prove your point.
Cutting a budget is not buying votes.
The corruption you speak of (and there is plenty of other corruption in government) would not be there if the government did not have the power to supply the '1%' with political favors. The problem you describe is the result the excess power the government has taken. This can't be fixed by passing more laws, unless those laws limit the government's power (and fat chance of a politician voting to reduce his power). Banning tax dollars being spent on sports arenas is one example both sides of the political spectrum might agree on, but the politicians won't.
Campaign finance laws are not a solution. Lots of campaign finance laws have already been passed by the feds, yet the amount spent on campaigns keeps increasing year after year. There will always be ways around any laws limiting the amount of contributions.
We spend more than any country in the history of the world on education and were ranked 25th. Money isn't the problem!
Quote:We spend more than any country in the history of the world on education and were ranked 25th. Money isn't the problem!
Must be the parents doing nothing to help their kids education or actively sabotaging it.
Quote:Must be the parents doing nothing to help their kids education or actively sabotaging it.
Could also be that we spend that money on places other than... you know, instruction.
(Also we're only 5th)
Quote:Must be the parents doing nothing to help their kids education or actively sabotaging it.
It mostly is the first one.