Obviously philosophy is broad enough to have its own forum but since that hasn't happened yet let's just start a thread. Let's also steer away from any religious discussions.
Here's a question to start this thread off:
Is it better to live as a coward or die a hero?
Say you're faced with an option of taking a fatal gunshot wound for a close family member or friend. Would it be truly worth it to die? Sure, you’d be a hero, but that person would feel guilty for your death for the rest of their lives. Is that “brave” act actually cowardly because you’re transferring the guilt that you’d have felt if you did nothing and watched them die to your friend, who has to deal with the guilt of causing your death?
Quote:Obviously philosophy is broad enough to have its own forum but since that hasn't happened yet let's just start a thread. Let's also steer away from any religious discussions.
Here's a question to start this thread off:
Is it better to live as a coward or die a hero?
Say you're faced with an option of taking a fatal gunshot wound for a close family member or friend. Would it be truly worth it to die? Sure, you’d be a hero, but that person would feel guilty for your death for the rest of their lives. Is that “brave” act actually cowardly because you’re transferring the guilt that you’d have felt if you did nothing and watched them die to your friend, who has to deal with the guilt of causing your death?
I feel like that decision must be viewed in the light of how you lived in the past and what your personal beliefs were. Are you a person who touted that it
is in fact better to die a good death rather than to live a poor life? Is it more fitting for a person to set an example of a good life or to provide, no matter what, and survive?
I feel like there is no moral absolute on this as it is more of a personal opinion / feeling right about yourself than anything.
Quote:Obviously philosophy is broad enough to have its own forum but since that hasn't happened yet let's just start a thread. Let's also steer away from any religious discussions.
Here's a question to start this thread off:
Is it better to live as a coward or die a hero?
Say you're faced with an option of taking a fatal gunshot wound for a close family member or friend. Would it be truly worth it to die? Sure, you’d be a hero, but that person would feel guilty for your death for the rest of their lives. Is that “brave” act actually cowardly because you’re transferring the guilt that you’d have felt if you did nothing and watched them die to your friend, who has to deal with the guilt of causing your death?
It's difficult to discuss this without bringing religion into the mix.
Would it be "worth" it? That depends on the values and beliefs of a person. For me personally, if it came down to a family member then I would certainly put myself in harm's way to protect them.
Next you already make the assumption that taking a bullet for a close friend or family member would make you a "hero". Then you make the assumption that the family member or friend would feel "guilty" for the rest of their life. What if the assumption was changed to "thankful"? What if the person that is saved in your scenario had a feeling of gratefulness rather than guilt?
What you imply though, is that you're "transferring" an emotion (guilt) because of your actions. Is/was that the intention for said action? Or could said action have been done because of another emotion (love)? Is said action deserving of one label (hero) or another label (cowardly)? It depends on the original intent and the belief of the people involved.
You need to be careful when making assumptions.
Quote:Obviously philosophy is broad enough to have its own forum but since that hasn't happened yet let's just start a thread. Let's also steer away from any religious discussions.
Here's a question to start this thread off:
Is it better to live as a coward or die a hero?
Say you're faced with an option of taking a fatal gunshot wound for a close family member or friend. Would it be truly worth it to die? Sure, you’d be a hero, but that person would feel guilty for your death for the rest of their lives. Is that “brave” act actually cowardly because you’re transferring the guilt that you’d have felt if you did nothing and watched them die to your friend, who has to deal with the guilt of causing your death?
too many variables. is the family member elderly vs you being young? does the person who could be shot have a terminal illness?
many more to consider....
I would try to, but if I didn't move quick enough then I guess it wouldn't matter.
If you have to ponder if you would die to save the life of another it's a safe bet you really wouldn't sacrifice yourself instinctively for that individual.
My wife my children without hesitation, a stranger probably not. A friend most likely not.
Quote:If you have to ponder if you would die to save the life of another it's a safe bet you really wouldn't sacrifice yourself instinctively for that individual.
My wife my children without hesitation, a stranger probably not. A friend most likely not.
Its easy to say that when not facing a life or death situation. As a husband and father, I too, feel that I would react in the same manner just based on instincts. But we can't say that as an absolute fact.
Quote:Its easy to say that when not facing a life or death situation. As a husband and father, I too, feel that I would react in the same manner just based on instincts. But we can't say that as an absolute fact.
I have no doubt as a father there would be no hesitation for my wife or children, Admittedly I don't think I would for a mere friend or stranger. Like you said who knows but the love I have for my children and wife is far deeper then a friend or stranger.
Quote:I have no doubt as a father there would be no hesitation for my wife or children, Admittedly I don't think I would for a mere friend or stranger. Like you said who knows but the love I have for my children and wife is far deeper then a friend or stranger.
However, the OP wanted to have a philosophical discussion regarding this. Do you feel that if you took a bullet to save one of your family members would result in you being remembered as a "hero" or as a "coward" since you would have "transferred some guilt" according to the OP?
This thread reeks of "homework" for somebody. I find it interesting that the OP didn't want to comment on my first post, even though he wanted a "discussion".
Quote:However, the OP wanted to have a philosophical discussion regarding this. Do you feel that if you took a bullet to save one of your family members would result in you being remembered as a "hero" or as a "coward" since you would have "transferred some guilt" according to the OP?
This thread reeks of "homework" for somebody. I find it interesting that the OP didn't want to comment on my first post, even though he wanted a "discussion".
Lol @ homework. Its just a scenario. If you don't agree with my "assumptions" then feel free to ask your own question for discussion. That's what this thread is for.
Quote:Lol @ homework. Its just a scenario. If you don't agree with my "assumptions" then feel free to ask your own question for discussion. That's what this thread is for.
Well, as stated in my original post, I do disagree with your "assumptions". However, you are the one that wanted a "discussion" regarding the topic, yet you fail to engage in any kind of discussion. So address my initial comments. Let's discuss it.
Quote:Well, as stated in my original post, I do disagree with your "assumptions". However, you are the one that wanted a "discussion" regarding the topic, yet you fail to engage in any kind of discussion. So address my initial comments. Let's discuss it.
As I previously stated, I believe my instincts would kick in when it comes down to protecting my wife/kids. If I were to die its quite possible a feeling of gratefulness and being thankful could kick in. But I think a feeling of guilt would also eventually take its place, which is only natural in the grieving process.
Difficult question to answer. Most people do things in a crisis that they would never imagine themselves doing. If it was an "in the moment" type of thing, my bet is probably most people would react without thinking and take the bullet. Given more time to think about it, that number would fall to a percentage that would only take a bullet for their close family or a loved one.
As you live, you may never know. As you are dead, you may not remember.
just another form of labeling
Quote:Obviously philosophy is broad enough to have its own forum but since that hasn't happened yet let's just start a thread. Let's also steer away from any religious discussions.
Well without trying to specifically endorse any particular religion, I will say that it is impossible to sever religion from philosophy. A lack of belief in "religion" is either atheism or agnosticism, and is still a belief in itself. And what a person believes (or does not believe) will dictate their ideologies and view of life. If I don't believe in an afterlife, or consequences or rewards for many actions, do I step in front of a bullet for someone, whether a family member or not? Well, I have 2 children and a wife who also need me to be their hero as well. If I don't believe in an afterlife, I probably take the path that is best for my myself and my family. If I do believe in an afterlife, and can exhibit the bravery needed, I put my life in harm's way, place my life in a higher power, and risk my life for another, though they might be a complete stranger.
Quote:Obviously philosophy is broad enough to have its own forum but since that hasn't happened yet let's just start a thread. Let's also steer away from any religious discussions.
Here's a question to start this thread off:
Is it better to live as a coward or die a hero?
Say you're faced with an option of taking a fatal gunshot wound for a close family member or friend. Would it be truly worth it to die? Sure, you’d be a hero, but that person would feel guilty for your death for the rest of their lives. Is that “brave” act actually cowardly because you’re transferring the guilt that you’d have felt if you did nothing and watched them die to your friend, who has to deal with the guilt of causing your death?
Life is all about choices we make, one choice could change your life for the good or bad forever. The choice to take one's life for example may put a dark shadow on your heart, mind (body) and soul.
It could change your views on other aspects and future choices. Why murder is a really harsh example, let's look at simply the choice to eat healthy.
If you eat all organic, healthy vegetables you will most likely be happy due to your good health. The chances are higher that you will experience life in a more positive way than had you chosen to only eat a poor diet consisting solely of fatty, high cholesterol junk food. The increased weight if you ate in excess would cause health problems which might result in financial problems and a roller coaster of other negative things that never would have existed had you chosen to eat healthy. A few people would argue the joy you get in poor quality food, but you could chose to make healthy food tasty & interesting.
The simple outlook you take on life whether to look at a glass half empty or half full will change your choices which will directly result in how your life is lived.
Quote:Well without trying to specifically endorse any particular religion, I will say that it is impossible to sever religion from philosophy. A lack of belief in "religion" is either atheism or agnosticism, and is still a belief in itself. And what a person believes (or does not believe) will dictate their ideologies and view of life. If I don't believe in an afterlife, or consequences or rewards for many actions, do I step in front of a bullet for someone, whether a family member or not? Well, I have 2 children and a wife who also need me to be their hero as well. If I don't believe in an afterlife, I probably take the path that is best for my myself and my family. If I do believe in an afterlife, and can exhibit the bravery needed, I put my life in harm's way, place my life in a higher power, and risk my life for another, though they might be a complete stranger.
I think if you want to have a philosophical discussion, you have to keep religion out of it. Nothing kills a philosophical discussion like religion kills a philosophical discussion. That is because religion starts with a conclusion. That's it. End of discussion.
If you want to have a philosophical discussion, you have to bring in logic, and reason, and evidence. You have to be open-minded, or at least pretend to be open-minded. Too many discussions end with, "I believe this because the good book tells me so." People ground themselves in their religion. It's the basis of all their beliefs. It is not subject to question.
I just realized that why I don't post much, is because on these forums, you really get to get a really deep perspective of the thoughts and feelings that completely come from random people scattered throughout the world. You see an influx of a culture clash and different upbringings that it really is fascinating. Person A was raised this way, and person B was raised that way with an entirely opposing set of beliefs and viewpoints, with each thinking the other is wrong.
What's even more fascinating is the power that is in the message board's platform to enable said person to really put their innermost thoughts down for others to read. You see a development of a personality that we often shield from the rest of the world. It's the person we truly are versus the person we are for others. Take me for example, I think my deep thinking game is on point but I am very introverted about them naturally. So the person you would see physically and how my mannerisms are is different than I am now. I act one way, but think in another. I don't just view a person on the outside, I look at someone based on their characteristics that they portray and try to look into what caused this person to act this way, what experiences of joy and pain, #winning and #defeated moments, to love and to have lost, and......well you get the point.
As per the OP's original statement, one can realistically view it as survival of the fittest if you're the coward. Can't play with fate, when fate's ready to take action. Or viewed as the "right" thing to do, the moral high ground, unwavering in their integrity, seize the moment to lay a legacy for future generations to aspire to. As for me? I will take either path based on the circumstance. Within myself, I ask "If I take the bullet, will the person I save have a greater impact on society for the good than me? Or will my death have a far more positive impact on future generations than this person I am to save?" If I feel like it's better to take the bullet for the greater good, then I will. If not, then I will go to great lengths to honor the person and so that they knew it was worth it.
:drops mic:
very interesting question posed... this also brings in Western vs eastern style philosophy. in a basic philosophy class, you learn of things like "i makers" in western philosophy that are basicly thinking mechanisms most people in western cultures use in which they inject their self as "i" into almost every line of thinking. while not totally absent in eastern philosophy, this style of thinking is much less prominent. to me, the OP's question is less about would you choose solution A or B, but rather, do noble and selfless acts even truly exist in today's western cultures. by that i mean, do people intentionally commit acts where they know going in they will reap zero personal gain or praise of any kind just because the act needed to be done.
would you take a bullet for someone even if you were not going to be recognized for doing so. some would say that is a lack of self preservation, but in alot of ways it is the most noble of acts. giving up everything just because it needed to be done with zero consideration of reward or personal praise.