You don't need too much knowledge of economics, Malabar.


Just look at Clinton's NAFTA and what that's done to workers for 20 years.


Bernie seems to be the only candidate right now that is absolutely against this stupid deal.

 

How much job loss can you trace to NAFTA? The US was losing manufacturing jobs steadily since 1960. Did NAFTA accelerate that? Are there a lot of things that used to be manufactured in the US that are now being manufactured in Mexico? If so, please name them.


Of course NAFTA was also supposed to stop illegal immigration because Mexicans would be able to stay in Mexico and still have jobs. In that sense it was a dismal failure. A government program that didn't deliver what it promised? I'm shocked! SHOCKED!

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I don't know what Obama is thinking, but he's clearly not a socialist, lol. This is pro big corporations, there's no denying this.

 

You are looking at this from a US perspective. Wouldn't a socialist want to spread the wealth outside the US borders?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

You are looking at this from a US perspective. Wouldn't a socialist want to spread the wealth outside the US borders?

A corporatist wouldn't want to do spread the influence outside the US to increase the coffers even more? 

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Weather you call it socialism corporatism or free trade bottom line is it shifts power to a central authority I call that authoritarianism

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I don't know what Obama is thinking, but he's clearly not a socialist, lol. This is pro big corporations, there's no denying this.

He's always been a crony capitalist, it's the Chicago Way.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

How much job loss can you trace to NAFTA? The US was losing manufacturing jobs steadily since 1960. Did NAFTA accelerate that? Are there a lot of things that used to be manufactured in the US that are now being manufactured in Mexico? If so, please name them.

Of course NAFTA was also supposed to stop illegal immigration because Mexicans would be able to stay in Mexico and still have jobs. In that sense it was a dismal failure. A government program that didn't deliver what it promised? I'm shocked! SHOCKED!

It started with Mexican trucks going as far as the border, the US DOT certified trucks took over. Not anymore.


American companies can build a factory there, and get raw materials from the US...tax free.


A pickup truck manufactured in Dearborn Mi. Costs the same as one manufactured in Mexico.... Except the $8 an hour Mexican worker won't be buying it. Who benefits here?


Sadly, President Kennedy's speech has turned to..what's in it for me. The word us is not used in the US much anymore.


Then we have politicians using factory closings/ joblessness as the excuse of inner city problems. Ha. Soon it'll be everyone's....well...it already is.

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Blakes Life Matters

American companies can build a factory there, and get raw materials from the US...tax free.


A pickup truck manufactured in Dearborn Mi. Costs the same as one manufactured in Mexico.... Except the $8 an hour Mexican worker won't be buying it. Who benefits here?

 

 

I was asking Eric for specifics. What American companies have built factories in Mexico? If so are they still operating there or have they since moved production to China et al.? Which pickup trucks are built in Mexico?


 

I was opposed to NAFTA at the time. I remember some companies moving production to Mexico. Zenith did, but now Zenith is out of business. I remember reading how Lionel trains move production back to the US after quality problems in Mexico. So now I wonder if it actually made any difference in the long run. Mexicans are still flooding into the US for jobs, so the job situation down there can't be very good.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

He's always been a crony capitalist, it's the Chicago Way.

 

It's a poor term. There's nothing 'capitalist' about the government favoring some companies at the expense of others.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I was asking Eric for specifics. What American companies have built factories in Mexico? If so are they still operating there or have they since moved production to China et al.? Which pickup trucks are built in Mexico?


 

I was opposed to NAFTA at the time. I remember some companies moving production to Mexico. Zenith did, but now Zenith is out of business. I remember reading how Lionel trains move production back to the US after quality problems in Mexico. So now I wonder if it actually made any difference in the long run. Mexicans are still flooding into the US for jobs, so the job situation down there can't be very good.

 

Sorry I missed the question but here's what I've seen:

 

according to this report more then 800,000 workers have needed the Trade Adjustment Assitance because they lost jobs directly due to manufacturing going from here to Canada or Mexico http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA-at-20.pdf

 

The year before NAFTA we had a trade surplus with Mexico and a small deficit with Canada (29.6 Billion)  the last number I saw is we're at a 177 billion dollar trade deficit now? http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/20-years-...ng-policy/

 

I know the majority of GM parts are built in Mexico now, especially after the auto bailout. NAFTA makes that much easier for them

 

The Farm subsides we get domestically especially on corn put the Mexican farmers out of business which might be why so many of them are migrating here.

 

Immigration like you stated has doubled, there's been very few if any benefits from NAFTA. Most concerning of all to me is the dissolution of national borders, these trade agreements make national borders less and less important and globalization more and more likely.

 

No I'm not a fan of NAFTA or the proposed TPP

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Sorry I missed the question but here's what I've seen:

 

according to this report more then 800,000 workers have needed the Trade Adjustment Assitance because they lost jobs directly due to manufacturing going from here to Canada or Mexico http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA-at-20.pdf

 

The year before NAFTA we had a trade surplus with Mexico and a small deficit with Canada (29.6 Billion)  the last number I saw is we're at a 177 billion dollar trade deficit now? http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/20-years-...ng-policy/

 

I know the majority of GM parts are built in Mexico now, especially after the auto bailout. NAFTA makes that much easier for them

 

The Farm subsides we get domestically especially on corn put the Mexican farmers out of business which might be why so many of them are migrating here.

 

Immigration like you stated has doubled, there's been very few if any benefits from NAFTA. Most concerning of all to me is the dissolution of national borders, these trade agreements make national borders less and less important and globalization more and more likely.

 

No I'm not a fan of NAFTA or the proposed TPP

 

OK. I'm convinced. Thank's for the elaboration.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

You are looking at this from a US perspective. Wouldn't a socialist want to spread the wealth outside the US borders?

Corporations don't care about national perspectives, just profit. The TPP is good for them. Republicans are voting to fast track TPP... why do you think that is?

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Corporations don't care about national perspectives, just profit. The TPP is good for them. Republicans are voting to fast track TPP... why do you think that is?

It's not just republicans. Plenty of Dems are on it's side also. 

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Corporations don't care about national perspectives, just profit. The TPP is good for them. Republicans are voting to fast track TPP... why do you think that is?

 

It's a pretty split issue I'm seeing plenty of republicans and democrats both for and against it. This is one of those issues where it comes down to the wire on both sides.

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Corporations don't care about national perspectives, just profit. The TPP is good for them. Republicans are voting to fast track TPP... why do you think that is?

 

It seems the 'extremists' from both parties are against it, and the 'moderates' are for it.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I was asking Eric for specifics. What American companies have built factories in Mexico? If so are they still operating there or have they since moved production to China et al.? Which pickup trucks are built in Mexico?


 
I was opposed to NAFTA at the time. I remember some companies moving production to Mexico. Zenith did, but now Zenith is out of business. I remember reading how Lionel trains move production back to the US after quality problems in Mexico. So now I wonder if it actually made any difference in the long run. Mexicans are still flooding into the US for jobs, so the job situation down there can't be very good.

GM and other car manufacturers for one. The Chevy Avalanche is made there, as well as in the US. Same price however. $32 K approx. whether it's made here or there. The truck is delivered here by rail ( US) or Blount Island ( Mexico).

Just the tip of the iceberg.

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Blakes Life Matters

My business is certainly not a "big corporation", and I think the TPP could benefit me greatly.


That being said, the info I'm seeing seems pretty one-sided. I think once I see a little more I'll either be very for it or very against it.

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My business is certainly not a "big corporation", and I think the TPP could benefit me greatly.


That being said, the info I'm seeing seems pretty one-sided. I think once I see a little more I'll either be very for it or very against it.

Could you explain how based on what has been leaked, it would help your business? 

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It seems the 'extremists' from both parties are against it, and the 'moderates' are for it.

Indeed... What a crazy world we live in when pro America policy that goes against globalization is"extreme"...


Also, just wanted to make sure everyone knows I am not blaming only republicans on this one. Obviously some democrats are also in favor of this as well.

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