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A-Rob: New Contract? (merged threads)

#21

(12-10-2017, 09:36 PM)knarnn Wrote: Re-sign ARob. He’s still our best WR without a doubt. Lee will most likely be allowed to walk.

Westbrook will have something to say about that with another year of experience. You do want ARob back though. You want Lee back too, his drops are something he can work through. Hurns will be the cap casualty (assuming there is one).
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
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#22

He gets resigned. Or at least tagged and an extension is worked out next year during the pre season or regular season. Bortles is developing some nice chemistry now like I said earlier last week with the rookies. Cole and Westbrook are starting to get more involved which makes Lee's job easier and then eventually Hurns is back. But this team STILL lacks a big guy with leaping ability and that's why I think they have to keep Robinson around.
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#23

(12-10-2017, 09:40 PM)Dakota Wrote: He won't get a long term deal with anyone coming off of an ACL. It will likely be a one year "show me" deal with whomever he signs with.

I think it'll maybe be a restructured 2 year deal with us. At least I'm hoping....arob is very good and adds an element to our offense that we don't have otherwise. 

People keep saying we should move on from Lee, but he's been productive and I get the feeling that the front office really likes him. He and bortles are also tight. 

If bortles is here next year, i would bet Lee is as well.
Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."
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#24

Tag Arob and cut Hurns now that his guaranteed money is gone.
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#25

(12-11-2017, 08:44 AM)Upper Wrote: Tag Arob and cut Hurns now that his guaranteed money is gone.

One of the rare times I agree with you. 

With the progression of the rookies, one of Lee/Hurns is expendable. I would still venture to say that's Hurns at this point. Mainly because Lee has been available to step up this year, even if he's had some struggles earlier, and Hurns has unfortunately been out.
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#26

why would we let Lee walk? DeDe is going to be a stud... and Robinson is already a stud. Those 2 are must keeps. Hurns is making a large amount of money, and sadly isn't needed anymore. Lee is a very good WR who gets open at will.

I would off Hurns to restructure or sadly let him know we need to move on and then pay Lee.
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#27

People on here have no memory. Lee has turned it on a little, but I will take Hurns effort and leadership over Lee.

Lee has had had injury issues in the past and several back breaking drops this year.

If I have to choose 2 of the three, I am still taking ARob and Hurns.
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#28

(12-11-2017, 10:23 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: why would we let Lee walk?  DeDe is going to be a stud... and Robinson is already a stud.  Those 2 are must keeps.  Hurns is making a large amount of money, and sadly isn't needed anymore.  Lee is a very good WR who gets open at will.

I would off Hurns to restructure or sadly let him know we need to move on and then pay Lee.

I normally agree with you but go look at Lee by the numbers. He's so average. Highest drop rate in the league. 

Mike Thomas and Lee are comparable. It took Lee 8 weeks to score a TD. Most TDs in a season is 3.
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#29

(12-11-2017, 01:19 PM)rufftime Wrote: People on here have no memory.  Lee has turned it on a little, but I will take Hurns effort and leadership over Lee.

Lee has had had injury issues in the past and several back breaking drops this year.

If I have to choose 2 of the three, I am still taking ARob and Hurns.

Yep.

Hurns was our leading WR prior to injury and he's been out for a month. Just shows you how average Lee has been up until the past couple of weeks.
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#30

AR signs 1 year prove it deal that is extended mid season if he looks to be back from injury with no issues.
Lee stays if he's willing to take a middle of the road FA WR contract. If he is looking for big bucks we should let him walk. While he has played well in spots this year, his drops have been killer. Aside from all that if it came down to Lee's contract VS say Colvin, I'd rather pay our NB.

With Cole and Westbrook, bring back AR15 and Hurns and it is a very formidable group imo.

I'm not saying Lee is trash or anything like that. But has he really earned any sort of contract?
He leads the league in drops. Was oft-injured prior to this season (and still dealing with being on the injury report almost every week)

I know some people want to cut Hurns to shed some of that contract he earned... but Hurns has become Mr. Reliable (not sure why anyone puts his name in with the drops, he's had few of those, especially this season). Could his contract use a little re-working? Sure, and perhaps he'd be willing to take an extension to stretch some of that money. My guess is that Lee will be less willing to take any sort of discount.
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#31

(12-11-2017, 01:35 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote:
(12-11-2017, 10:23 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: why would we let Lee walk?  DeDe is going to be a stud... and Robinson is already a stud.  Those 2 are must keeps.  Hurns is making a large amount of money, and sadly isn't needed anymore.  Lee is a very good WR who gets open at will.

I would off Hurns to restructure or sadly let him know we need to move on and then pay Lee.

I normally agree with you but go look at Lee by the numbers. He's so average. Highest drop rate in the league. 

Mike Thomas and Lee are comparable. It took Lee 8 weeks to score a TD. Most TDs in a season is 3.
So maybe some stats to back up what you're saying, since it's incorrect?

Lee doesn't have the highest drop rate in the league.

He has also had a ton of clutch third down conversions for us.

And for someone that people complain a lot about durability...he's our only vet receiver that's been suiting up week in and week out. 


Let's remember that the better Blake has looked, the better our WRs all the sudden look, including Cole.
Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."
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#32

(12-11-2017, 02:50 PM)Achilles Wrote:
(12-11-2017, 01:35 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: I normally agree with you but go look at Lee by the numbers. He's so average. Highest drop rate in the league. 

Mike Thomas and Lee are comparable. It took Lee 8 weeks to score a TD. Most TDs in a season is 3.
So maybe some stats to back up what you're saying, since it's incorrect?

Lee doesn't have the highest drop rate in the league.

He has also had a ton of clutch third down conversions for us.

And for someone that people complain a lot about durability...he's our only vet receiver that's been suiting up week in and week out. 


Let's remember that the better Blake has looked, the better our WRs all the sudden look, including Cole.
WR lack of drops have correlated with Blake's improvement.
Lee may not lead the league in drop %, but he had the highest number of total dropped passes prior to this week.

When looking at the two WRs resumes (Hurns and Lee) Hurns has been more consistent and valuable.
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#33
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2017, 12:53 PM by Teal Time Radio.)

Jags02 question for you? What is the average franchise tag for receivers? And is an ACL injury worth that? Based on the rollover and estimated cap we have this coming off season. Now my points. While Hurns (burns gotta love auto correct) is reliable in some situations.

Where the drops took placed and at what moments of the game? Because I seam to recall at least two where critical situations. And one cost us a game.


Now 2015 is just that long ago. What he accomplished for that was paid in garentee money. Now the same questions for lee? Where and at what point. Number 2 who is more durable. Cause you all remember cox right? One heck of a corner when..... Was on the field. What was his issue? Couldn't stay on the field.

Three who is willing to save the organization more money at this point. And whatever have left. Ya still have West Brook And Cole and I believe Benns who is on IR. If not mistaken. (One of um are)

Not to mention AR15 decision if wants to stay a Jag or not. Chemistry wise Bortles had ups and downs with AR15. Does he feel comfortable after a post season run to be enough to work on staying or not.

Then ya still have the draft. Even if keep all three. If a highly talented receiver falls into our lap. Does our FO Coughlin and Caldwell say hey. We did not predict this talented guy falling. And could be the best on our board.

Like west brook did. And would they say hey, "While we don't need this receiver the value and talent is too high to pass it up"

Should be an exciting offseason as far as who stays and goes.
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#34

(12-11-2017, 03:10 PM)Teal Time Radio Wrote: Jags02 question for you?   What is the average franchise tag for receivers?  And is an ACL injury worth that?  Based on the rollover and estimated cap we have this coming off season.  

Now my points.  While Hurns (burns gotta love auto correct) is reliable in some situations.

 Where the drops took placed and at what moments of the game? Because I seam to recall at least two where critical situations.  And one cost us a game.

Now 2015 is just that long ago.   What he accomplished for that was paid in garentee money.

Now the same questions for lee? Where and at what point.

Number 2 who is more durable.   Cause you all remember cox right?   One heck of a corner when..... Was on the field.   What was his issue?  Couldn't stay on the field.  

Three who is willing to save the organization more money at this point.  

And whatever have left.  Ya still have West Brook And Cole and I believe Benns who is on IR.  If not mistaken.  (One of um are)

Not to mention AR15 decision if wants to stay a Jag or not.  Chemistry wise Bortles had ups and downs with AR15.  

Does he feel comfortable after a post season run to be enough to work on staying or not.  

Then ya still have the draft.  Even if keep all three.  If a highly talented receiver falls into our lap.  

Does our FO Coughlin and Caldwell say hey.  We did not predict this talented guy falling.  And could be the best on our board.  

Like west brook did.  And would they say hey, "While we don't need this receiver the value and talent is too high to pass it up"

Should be an exciting offseason as far as who stays and goes.

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#35

Hurns was never our leading WR this year.

Hurns has missed more career games than Lee due to injury.
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#36

(12-11-2017, 04:17 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: Hurns was never our leading WR this year.

Hurns has missed more career games than Lee due to injury.

51/52 games played split

So... about even, even though Lee now has 1 more game played than Hurns.

In one more game played Lee has 171 catches on 301 targets for 2166 yards (12.7 ypc). 8 TDs and 115 first downs.
VS
Hurns having 186 catches on 328 targets for 2631 yards (14.1 ypc) 21 TDs and 123 first downs.

Looking at stats alone, I'd just keep whoever is cheaper.Hurns will cost about 7 mil. I'm almost positive Lee will be looking for more than that. (probably like 10-12)

Outside of the stats... my memory and my gut has Hurns as a much more memorable receiver for this team. Clutch, big time catches when needed the most.
Lee for all intents and purposes is just another WR. Nothing special and while his injury issues may be behind him, his dropsies is a recent thing as far as being an issue. He is credited with 8 on most sites, but it sure feels like more (As a team we have 20 credited drops, so Lee accounts for almost half). And he's the only Jag on the list out of the top 25-30
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#37

I think with Lee you get more YAC than Hurns. But, Hurns always made those tough catches in big situations. My guess is they let Lee walk.

1. ARob
2. Hurns
3. DeDe
4. Cole
5. Minckens
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#38

Keep ARob and Hurns. How quickly we forget how well they can be as a dynamic duo
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#39

(12-11-2017, 05:07 PM)Kane Wrote:
(12-11-2017, 04:17 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: Hurns was never our leading WR this year.

Hurns has missed more career games than Lee due to injury.

51/52 games played split

So... about even, even though Lee now has 1 more game played than Hurns.

In one more game played Lee has 171 catches on 301 targets for 2166 yards (12.7 ypc). 8 TDs and 115 first downs.
VS
Hurns having 186 catches on 328 targets for 2631 yards (14.1 ypc) 21 TDs and 123 first downs.

Looking at stats alone, I'd just keep whoever is cheaper.Hurns will cost about 7 mil. I'm almost positive Lee will be looking for more than that. (probably like 10-12)

Outside of the stats... my memory and my gut has Hurns as a much more memorable receiver for this team. Clutch, big time catches when needed the most.
Lee for all intents and purposes is just another WR. Nothing special and while his injury issues may be behind him, his dropsies is a recent thing as far as being an issue. He is credited with 8 on most sites, but it sure feels like more (As a team we have 20 credited drops, so Lee accounts for almost half). And he's the only Jag on the list out of the top 25-30

This is kind of a general observation/question and not necessarily aimed to you, just wanted to quote the stats you brought up.

I think the timing of their injuries plays a bit into the perception of both players.  The bulk of Lee's injury issues happened in 2015, whereas Hurns' happened in 2016 and part of this season.  Obviously this reverts back to Bortles, with him looking like a competent QB in 2015 and looking terrible in 2016.  How does Lee look catching passes from a competent Bortles in 2015 instead of the mess that was Bortles in 2016?  Maybe Lee is the one making those memorable plays instead of Hurns.

Ultimately, I think Lee is the better player, but Hurns already being under contract and offering a bit of a different skillset than the other guys on the roster will lead to Lee being allowed to walk.  I really like both players, and would love to have them both along with ARob back, but at least one has to go.
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#40

(12-11-2017, 01:35 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote:
(12-11-2017, 10:23 AM)Krayz_Jville_D Wrote: why would we let Lee walk?  DeDe is going to be a stud... and Robinson is already a stud.  Those 2 are must keeps.  Hurns is making a large amount of money, and sadly isn't needed anymore.  Lee is a very good WR who gets open at will.

I would off Hurns to restructure or sadly let him know we need to move on and then pay Lee.

I normally agree with you but go look at Lee by the numbers. He's so average. Highest drop rate in the league. 

Mike Thomas and Lee are comparable. It took Lee 8 weeks to score a TD. Most TDs in a season is 3.

Hurns in 2016:  
6 drops on 76 targets   (Lee had 3 drops on 105 targets)

Lee in 2017: 
8 drops on 96 targets  

Just a little perspective for you. 

 It's also important to note that Lee has played lights out the past two games. He looks very good at the moment and still leads this team in receiving yards. 

I understand people getting down on Lee for the drops, but Hurns did the exact same thing last season. 
The injury thing for Lee is in the past and Allen Hurns' injury thing is in the present.  He missed six games last year while Lee missed none. Hurns is going on  5 missed games this year as well while Lee has missed none. 

Lee seems more valuable to me when you add it all up. I'm a big Hurns fan, but I don't know if I like him better than Marqise Lee right now if a tough decision had to be made.
It also wouldn't shock me to see both Lee and Hurns elsewhere next year if Cole and Westbrook finish strong. Unlikely - but very possible if they sign A-Rob to a big deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

on topic:

I'd still offer A-Rob a fair contract. If all the reports are true about how great he looked before the injury, I think he's a good guy to head up a young group moving forward.
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