No, I don't anyone intentionally hires an awful coach. In the same way I don't think anyone intentionally drafts an awful player or signs an awful free agent. All of the above is a given. 
You said what their peers say about them about them matters a lot more than any insight based on track record. I don't think thats a good way to evaluate any coach. Pete Carroll saying Tom Cable is an outstanding Oline coach doesn't actually make him one. Gus Bradley saying Greg Olson is an outstanding offensive mind doesn't make him one.
t to know how/why he did such a bad job or examples of Bucs fans hating him? Both can be provided.

That's not what I actually said. I said that what their peers say or think about them matters more than what fans think. The insight you're talking about tends to come from a stat or a formula or a particular set of circumstances whereas the professionals look at the context and the big picture. Perfect example, you think Greg Olson is a bad OC, but his peers think he's a pretty good one and if you look at his history in the league, that would tend to bear that out. Being a good coach in the NFL doesn't mean you're always going to be successful, that's the nature of the game. If fans called the shots, Belichick would have never gotten another shot after his tenure in Cleveland. Believe it or not, the people that make those decisions knew better.  

That's not saying fans can't or shouldn't have their opinions, fans are going to fan. It's just more rational to take people who do this for a living a bit more seriously than some guy who made up a stat and posted it on a website.

Greg Olsons track record shows he's a bad OC. Your appeal to authority is based on the NFL not hiring any bad coaches ever which seems extremely suspect at best. A guy being hired in the NFL doesn't make him a good coach. In the same way a guy being made HC doesn't make him a good HC.  

If you read the comments above correctly you would have seen I wasn't just basing it on the guys stat, more so George Warhops track record through the years.

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George Warhops offensive lines in QB hits allowed :

Bucs
2018: 20th (109)
2017: 23rd (100)
2016: 28th (109)
2015: 29th (109)
2014: 32nd (124)

Browns
2013 :32nd (121)
2012: 25th (83)
2011: 25th (83)
2010: 6th (63)
2009: 7th (61)

Yards per rush attempt:

Bucs
2018: 30th (3.9)
2017: 27th (3.7)
2016: 30th (3.6)
2015: 2nd (4.8)
2014: 25th (3.9)

Browns
2013: 23rd (4)
2012: 21st (4)
2011: 31st (3.7)
2010: 20th (4)
2009: 17th (4.2)


In Sack % allowed:

Bucs
2018: 12th
2017: 15th
2016: 16th
2015: 6th
2014: 27th

Browns
2013: 17th
2012: 13th
2011: 18th
2010: 22nd
2009: 19th

49ers (fired 1/2 through 2008)
2007: 31st
2006: 21st
2005: 31st

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Now I'd expect people to go through his seasons and apply context to those stats in order to examine them fully so you don't miss out but its fair to say he was a bad offensive line coach with the Bucs and 49ers if you read back through his work. Did well initially with the Browns but fell off the way side then.

Interestingly enough his QBs are generally around average in sack %, despite being very poor in qb hits allowed.

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Would you agree with the above comment? 

The NFL has always been a "who do you know" league more than anything else. The problem with basing your opinions off what their peers say about them is 95% of the time coaches (and players for the most part, although its changing a bit) are going to say something positive. You'd be hard pressed to find any Seattle coaches who said Tom Cable sucked on the way out. 

Joe Thomas knows more than most fans about football, sure, he also refused to say anything bad about Hue Jackson while he was HC and gave him excuses for everything. Being truthful about coaches you've worked with orr coached with isn't something the NFL does

I bet when head coaches look to hire assistants, they're looking at who can help them win since it's their job on the line. Sure, Marrone will look at people he's comfortable with and possibly known before but no one is going to go hire a bad assistant just because they like them.

Gus Bradley hired Bob Babich because he was a friend. That was in spite of his terrible performance as a DC in Chicago.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I bet when head coaches look to hire assistants, they're looking at who can help them win since it's their job on the line. Sure, Marrone will look at people he's comfortable with and possibly known before but no one is going to go hire a bad assistant just because they like them.

Gus Bradley hired Bob Babich because he was a friend. That was in spite of his terrible performance as a DC in Chicago.

Yep. It's extremely common.

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No, I don't anyone intentionally hires an awful coach. In the same way I don't think anyone intentionally drafts an awful player or signs an awful free agent. All of the above is a given. 
You said what their peers say about them about them matters a lot more than any insight based on track record. I don't think thats a good way to evaluate any coach. Pete Carroll saying Tom Cable is an outstanding Oline coach doesn't actually make him one. Gus Bradley saying Greg Olson is an outstanding offensive mind doesn't make him one.
t to know how/why he did such a bad job or examples of Bucs fans hating him? Both can be provided.

That's not what I actually said. I said that what their peers say or think about them matters more than what fans think. The insight you're talking about tends to come from a stat or a formula or a particular set of circumstances whereas the professionals look at the context and the big picture. Perfect example, you think Greg Olson is a bad OC, but his peers think he's a pretty good one and if you look at his history in the league, that would tend to bear that out. Being a good coach in the NFL doesn't mean you're always going to be successful, that's the nature of the game. If fans called the shots, Belichick would have never gotten another shot after his tenure in Cleveland. Believe it or not, the people that make those decisions knew better.  

That's not saying fans can't or shouldn't have their opinions, fans are going to fan. It's just more rational to take people who do this for a living a bit more seriously than some guy who made up a stat and posted it on a website.

For the record, I believe Greg Olson to be an exceptional QBs Coach and is one of the most intelligent passing game geniuses in the game today. I feel he would make for an awesome Passing Game Coordinator on any roster. His issue is he doesn't seem to know the first thing about rushing the football, and that makes him a horrible Offensive Coordinator. He can write up passing routes to stump virtually any defense, but as a play-caller, he doesn't understand concepts like balance, etc. 

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'02

Now I'd expect people to go through his seasons and apply context to those stats in order to examine them fully so you don't miss out but its fair to say he was a bad offensive line coach with the Bucs and 49ers if you read back through his work. Did well initially with the Browns but fell off the way side then.  

Interestingly enough his QBs are generally around average in sack %, despite being very poor in qb hits allowed.

It's also fair to say those teams lacked talent. The 49ers were at their worst during that span, and the Browns have routinely been the worst team in the league for past couple decades until their breakout 7-win season this past year. The Bucs too have only had spashes of talent to speak of. The guy has been working with virtually nothing.

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'02

Now I'd expect people to go through his seasons and apply context to those stats in order to examine them fully so you don't miss out but its fair to say he was a bad offensive line coach with the Bucs and 49ers if you read back through his work. Did well initially with the Browns but fell off the way side then.  

Interestingly enough his QBs are generally around average in sack %, despite being very poor in qb hits allowed.

It's also fair to say those teams lacked talent. The 49ers were at their worst during that span, and the Browns have routinely been the worst team in the league for past couple decades until their breakout 7-win season this past year. The Bucs too have only had spashes of talent to speak of. The guy has been working with virtually nothing.

Yes that's what the context part is referring too. 

Bucs have invested a lot into Oline under Warhop and have gotten terrible results

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I'd like to know how you determine who is a good or bad offensive line coach.  I realy don't know, myself.

How do you determine if any coach or player is good or bad?

Oh c'mon now.  Head coaches, OC, DC, players is a totally different story.

Position coaches?  Unless you're in practice, you have very little to base it on.

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This is a Good Ol' Boy league.

Friends and friends of friends are the only ones that get hired.

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Should have waited the Colts just fired their oline coach. He was the reason they made the playoffs with a much improved line. But he was hired by Josh daniels before he changed his mind and Frank Riech kept him on but wants his own guy now.

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Should have waited the Colts just fired their oline coach. He was the reason they made the playoffs with a much improved line....

The much improved line was more impactful than the guy coaching them if you ask me.  
Glowinski and Nelson made a big difference.
If not, why are they firing him?

he may be a better coach than Warhop, who knows? But I wouldn't just credit him for being THE reason they made the playoffs.
That's a big leap.

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Should have waited the Colts just fired their oline coach. He was the reason they made the playoffs with a much improved line. But he was hired by Josh daniels before he changed his mind and Frank Riech kept him on but wants his own guy now.

That's just what I was getting ready to post. We get someone like Warhop and if we had waited, we would have had a shot at Dave DeGuglielmo, who took one of the worst O-Lines in the NFL and turned them into one of the best.

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Should have waited the Colts just fired their oline coach. He was the reason they made the playoffs with a much improved line. But he was hired by Josh daniels before he changed his mind and Frank Riech kept him on but wants his own guy now.

That's just what I was getting ready to post. We get someone like Warhop and if we had waited, we would have had a shot at Dave DeGuglielmo, who took one of the worst O-Lines in the NFL and turned them into one of the best.

I’m sure the heavy draft investments made this year into that line had nothing to do with it. 

Nope.

Strictly coaching.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

For the record, I believe Greg Olson to be an exceptional QBs Coach and is one of the most intelligent passing game geniuses in the game today. I feel he would make for an awesome Passing Game Coordinator on any roster. His issue is he doesn't seem to know the first thing about rushing the football, and that makes him a horrible Offensive Coordinator. He can write up passing routes to stump virtually any defense, but as a play-caller, he doesn't understand concepts like balance, etc. 

During his time with the Rams and Bucs, his offenses not only were some of the most productive through the air, they were also very capable running the football. (See Stephen Jackson.) He does tend to be a pass first coordinator but with the Bucs he had some of the best offenses they'd had to that point. It's hard to get there without some kind of balance.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Players not plays. I bet you think whomever is the QB coach in Green Bay is better than the QB coach in Miami.

And next year you can change that opinion based on other factors.

It's a team game. Assuming who is good or bad as a position coach, without ever being around any players, without ever being around practices or workouts, without ever being around training rooms or position meetings, is the height of Fanboy hubris.

Just my opinion.

Players AND plays.  No that's not how things work.  

You don't need to be in a position meeting to know Tom Cable is an awful offensive line , nor do you to know Dante or Mike Munchak are elite offensive line coaches.  

By your logic there is no way fans can ever know if a player or head coach is good or bad. Hue Jackson is an elite head coach, fans aren't in meeting rooms or involved in gameplanning so how are we to know?

You're right - we don't ever know. What makes you think we should? Do you know who the best brain surgeon in America is? If it were on Brain Surgery of the Week on ESPN I bet you'd be telling us who is.

That is why going into coaching is such a crapshoot. So many things outside your control. So many variables. By your logic we always have to assume whomever was fired was bad and whomever was hired was good. And of course we just figure out the best and worst by stats. That's it. There are obviously no other factors to consider.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Gus Bradley hired Bob Babich because he was a friend. That was in spite of his terrible performance as a DC in Chicago.

Yep. It's extremely common.

Coaches hire guys they know who they think can help them win. Sometimes they hire guys they don't know who they think can help them win. Coaches fire friends they think aren't helping them win. That's the nature of the profession.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Should have waited the Colts just fired their oline coach. He was the reason they made the playoffs with a much improved line....

The much improved line was more impactful than the guy coaching them if you ask me.  
Glowinski and Nelson made a big difference.
If not, why are they firing him?

he may be a better coach than Warhop, who knows?  But I wouldn't just credit him for being THE reason they made the playoffs.
That's a big leap.

They are letting him go so Frank Riech can bring in his own guy(good ole boy network) I think they let him stay on after what danieles did to him hire him then quit.

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Yep. It's extremely common.

Coaches hire guys they know who they think can help them win. Sometimes they hire guys they don't know who they think can help them win. Coaches fire friends they think aren't helping them win. That's the nature of the profession.

Again, this is all a given. Nobody has said otherwise.

Frank Reich just fired his Oline coach after doing a great job to bring in one of his guys instead.

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"Coaches hire coaches who they know and think they can win with, sometimes they hire coaches they don't know"

I mean yeah? You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disputes that.

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Coaches hire guys they know who they think can help them win. Sometimes they hire guys they don't know who they think can help them win. Coaches fire friends they think aren't helping them win. That's the nature of the profession.

Again, this is all a given. Nobody has said otherwise.

Frank Reich just fired his Oline coach after doing a great job to bring in one of his guys instead.

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"Coaches sometimes hire coaches who they know and think they can win with, sometimes they hire coaches they don't know"

I mean yeah? You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disputes that.

You just agreed with someone who said coaches  always hire their friends, implying coach quality was secondary.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Again, this is all a given. Nobody has said otherwise.

Frank Reich just fired his Oline coach after doing a great job to bring in one of his guys instead.

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"Coaches sometimes hire coaches who they know and think they can win with, sometimes they hire coaches they don't know"

I mean yeah? You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disputes that.

You just agreed with someone who said coaches  always hire their friends, implying coach quality was secondary.

No. A coach doesn't intentionally hire someone he thinks is gonna be awful. But they will hire their friends and people they've worked with quite often. 

It's extremely common to see a coach bringing in his own guys regardless of their track record, they still think they can do a good job with them and obviously they will trust someone they know will work under them over some stranger.

It's pretty odd as an NFL fan you seem totally unaware of this trend. Nobody is saying they intentionally are hiring awful coaches who they know will do an awful job under them.

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Players AND plays.  No that's not how things work.  

You don't need to be in a position meeting to know Tom Cable is an awful offensive line , nor do you to know Dante or Mike Munchak are elite offensive line coaches.  

By your logic there is no way fans can ever know if a player or head coach is good or bad. Hue Jackson is an elite head coach, fans aren't in meeting rooms or involved in gameplanning so how are we to know?

You're right - we don't ever know. What makes you think we should? Do you know who the best brain surgeon in America is? If it were on Brain Surgery of the Week on ESPN I bet you'd be telling us who is.

That is why going into coaching is such a crapshoot. So many things outside your control. So many variables. By your logic we always have to assume whomever was fired was bad and whomever was hired was good. And of course we just figure out the best and worst by stats. That's it. There are obviously no other factors to consider.

Yes becauae a brain surgeons track record is very comparable. At least stay in the field of reality here.. 

Here's a question, who do you think the best OCs and DCs are? Or do you just have absolutely no idea?

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