TE is the #1 need on the team, but we can get a good one later..I think the early 3rd is the sweet spot to get the left over of Sternberger, Knox, Warring, or Oliver. Other than McGary or Winovich I do not think we can get a good OT or DL after 7.

Honestly I'm happy with Jordan Thomas and we got him in the 6th round last draft.. (Owen Daniels was a 4th rounder also)

The TEs are out there guys.. you have to find them.  Spending a top 10 pick on a non top 3-5 premium position.. craziness.

Guess some people didn't learn with the Fournette selection.

To be Fair.  No one was banging the table for Fournette

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

If Hockenson is as good a blocker as they say then the need for RT becomes slightly diminished as Hock essentially becomes the tackle helping against speed rushers.

The argument that you can find quality TEs later in the draft is a valid one. But the same argument can be used for RTs. Luckily for us our needs arent at premier positions. Almost all of our needs our positions that can be had later. We arent shopping for a QB anymore, our defensive line is a strength and CBs we are elite. Our biggest need at a premier spot is LT. Cam is serviceable but can be upgraded.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Honestly I'm happy with Jordan Thomas and we got him in the 6th round last draft.. (Owen Daniels was a 4th rounder also)

The TEs are out there guys.. you have to find them.  Spending a top 10 pick on a non top 3-5 premium position.. craziness.

Guess some people didn't learn with the Fournette selection.

To be Fair.  No one was banging the table for Fournette

Not true. Many were all in on that pick. I know because I tried to argue against it for three months.

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https://www.jaguars.com/news/week-that-w...-important

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I keep seeing Hockenson at #7 mocked to us. "we have to pick a TE early"; "Foles really likes to utilize the TE" kind of talk etc. But i'm not so sure it's the glaring black hole others do. With Bortles as our QB it was obvious that he just couldn't hit certain throws... so they stopped calling them. If i had a dollar for every time Bortles' quick out was pick 6'd against us ... I could retire. Eventually Fisch, Olson, Hackett all seperately came to the conclusion that he can't hit that throw so don't bother calling it. 

Basically Bortles struggled on the outbreaking routes and stuff in the seam where most TE's make their living. Is it possible that we actually have decent talent in Swaim, O'Shaughnessy, Koyack etc. that was just underutilized due to our limitations behind center? O'Shaughnessy has hands, and seemed to get open a decent amount; I liked what i saw from Swaim in the few Cowboys games i saw but Dak prefers to live outside the numbers so i don't think he reached his full potential. 

While TE could use an Upgrade for sure; I think it's more important to add talent and depth at OL if our offense is going to succeed. I actually think Nick Foles will squeeze more production out of our TE group than we've gotten in YEARS. That said I don't think the dropoff from Hockenson to Irv Smith from Alabama is so vast that we need to throw a top 10 selection at the position. 

Thoughts?

I have no qualms with Irv Smith, however, I disagree about the dropoff not being that vast. If we miss on Hockenson, I'm fine going TE in the late rounds. I want Hockenson or Fant because these guys are truly going to be elite studs at the position. Basically I want a true stud TE like Ertz... otherwise we might as well just run with Swaim and O'Shag.

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'02

To be Fair.  No one was banging the table for Fournette

Not true. Many were all in on that pick. I know because I tried to argue against it for three months.

Didnt realize that, or better yet, i dont remember who all did.  Thanx for being the voice of good reason back then

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

I don’t understand the argument that some players need to be elite or HoF quality to justify selecting them top-10. How many players, at any position, are considered great in every draft? How many are even considered really good? A handful?

If we find a reliable TE that can put up 700 +/- yards and 8+ TDs while being a decent blocker then he’s absolutely worth a top-10 pick. He doesn’t have to be a Gronk, Gates, or Gonzalez. Aside from kicker or punter, the position they play shouldn’t be held against them when deciding where to take them.

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We currently have a bottom 5 TE group in the NFL so yes it's definitely a need.

In order to take Hockenson at #7, you need him to be close to a top 5 TE and consistently around 800 yards a year. Can he be that? I think so but also there are several TEs available in the 3rd or 4th who may be top 15 guys and give you a consistent 600 yards a year ala a Kyle Rudolph level of TE.

Even if you think Hockenson can be great , which I think he can be, you aren't just drafting him in a vacuum.

Let says Ed Oliver is a top tier pass rusher at the next level, the combination of him and that 3rd round TE are likely going to offer more value than Hockenson and that 3rd round Dline. Same with someone like Sweat.

I'm not gonna cry about it if we draft Hockenson because I think he's bust proof, I just think you have to weigh up what's the best total value you can get from the entire draft, not just round 1

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I don’t understand the argument that some players need to be elite or HoF quality to justify selecting them top-10. How many players, at any position, are considered great in every draft? How many are even considered really good? A handful?

If we find a reliable TE that can put up 700 +/- yards and 8+ TDs while being a decent blocker then he’s absolutely worth a top-10 pick. He doesn’t have to be a Gronk, Gates, or Gonzalez. Aside from kicker or punter, the position they play shouldn’t be held against them when deciding where to take them.

Positional value should absolutely determine where you value players in the draft. Not doing that is how you end up with Fournette at #4 overall

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We currently have a bottom 5 TE group in the NFL so yes it's definitely a need.

In order to take Hockenson at #7, you need him to be close to a top 5 TE and consistently around 800 yards a year. Can he be that? I think so but also there are several TEs available in the 3rd or 4th who may be top 15 guys and give you a consistent 600 yards a year ala a Kyle Rudolph level of TE.

Even if you think Hockenson can be great , which I think he can be, you aren't just drafting him in a vacuum.

Let says Ed Oliver is a top tier pass rusher at the next level, the combination of him and that 3rd round TE are likely going to offer more value than Hockenson and that 3rd round Dline. Same with someone like Sweat.

I'm not gonna cry about it if we draft Hockenson because I think he's bust proof, I just think you have to weigh up what's the best total value you can get from the entire draft, not just round 1

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I don’t understand the argument that some players need to be elite or HoF quality to justify selecting them top-10. How many players, at any position, are considered great in every draft? How many are even considered really good? A handful?

If we find a reliable TE that can put up 700 +/- yards and 8+ TDs while being a decent blocker then he’s absolutely worth a top-10 pick. He doesn’t have to be a Gronk, Gates, or Gonzalez. Aside from kicker or punter, the position they play shouldn’t be held against them when deciding where to take them.

Positional value should absolutely determine where you value players in the draft. Not doing that is how you end up with Fournette at #4 overall

You can hold some positions at a higher value, but that isn’t what I’m talking about. If it’s between QB and RB, and the RB has a slightly higher grade, you take the QB. What I mean to say is that their position shouldn’t stop you from drafting them higher only because of their position. If Fournette put up a lot of yards and TDs, no one would care where we drafted him. The same thing would happen if we drafted a good TE. It’s only before the draft that we say these things.

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We currently have a bottom 5 TE group in the NFL so yes it's definitely a need.

In order to take Hockenson at #7, you need him to be close to a top 5 TE and consistently around 800 yards a year. Can he be that? I think so but also there are several TEs available in the 3rd or 4th who may be top 15 guys and give you a consistent 600 yards a year ala a Kyle Rudolph level of TE.

Even if you think Hockenson can be great , which I think he can be, you aren't just drafting him in a vacuum.

Let says Ed Oliver is a top tier pass rusher at the next level, the combination of him and that 3rd round TE are likely going to offer more value than Hockenson and that 3rd round Dline. Same with someone like Sweat.

I'm not gonna cry about it if we draft Hockenson because I think he's bust proof, I just think you have to weigh up what's the best total value you can get from the entire draft, not just round 1

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Positional value should absolutely determine where you value players in the draft. Not doing that is how you end up with Fournette at #4 overall

You can hold some positions at a higher value, but that isn’t what I’m talking about. If it’s between QB and RB, and the RB has a slightly higher grade, you take the QB. What I mean to say is that their position shouldn’t stop you from drafting them higher only because of their position. If Fournette put up a lot of yards and TDs, no one would care where we drafted him. The same thing would happen if we drafted a good TE. It’s only before the draft that we say these things.

The positions they play should absolutely factor in to where you draft them. Even if Fournette was productive last year, it still would have been a bad pick because of who you are passing up for that position.  

A nose tackle for instance is one of the most replaceable positions on the football field, taking him in the top 10 even if he's a v good player isn't a smart way to draft and build a team. If we drafted a TE at 7 and he was simply at a Kyle Rudolph level that would also be a bad pick, because of who you passed up on to draft them there...

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Not many TEs have been selected in the top 10 period.  Not many have been as good as the prospect Hockenson was either.  The elite TEs that have been in the game the last 20 or so years like Gates, Gronk, Gonzalez, Kelce, Kittle etc.  do you think those teams in the top 10 regret not picking those guys?

Teams in the top ten can't really regret not picking most of those guys because none were considered (by anyone) to be elite can't miss prospects.  Look at where those elite TEs were selected - it's just more proof that you can wait to get a good one after the 1st round:

Gates - undrafted
Gonzalez - 1st round
Kelce - 3rd round
Kittle - 5th round
Ertz - 2nd round
Gronk - 2nd round
Graham - 3rd round
Witten - 3rd round

The only top ten TEs really were Vernon Davis and Kellen Winslow, both of whom had some good years but never became that elite TE.  I'd rather go OLine or DLine in the 1st and TE in the 2nd or 3rd.

https://twitter.com/GeneFrenette/status/...5537885185

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Coughlin also thought a RB at #4 overall was good value , presumably using the same logic

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Coughlin also thought a RB at #4 overall was good value , presumably using the same logic

If Fournette was good enough.  You could use that logic for any position. If the player is good enough it will be worth it regardless of what happened in the past.  Common sense really.  Most safeties dont go that early but teams whished they would of taken Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed early

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Coughlin also thought a RB at #4 overall was good value , presumably using the same logic

If Fournette was good enough.  You could use that logic for any position. If the player is good enough it will be worth it regardless of what happened in the past.  Common sense really.  Most safeties dont go that early but teams whished they would of taken Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed early

Positional value is important in the draft. RB at #4 overall was terrible value regardless of if Fournette was good

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If Fournette was good enough.  You could use that logic for any position. If the player is good enough it will be worth it regardless of what happened in the past.  Common sense really.  Most safeties dont go that early but teams whished they would of taken Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed early

Positional value is important in the draft. RB at #4 overall was terrible value regardless of if Fournette was good

Naw, I guess I value the RB postition more than you. If you get a Fred Taylor, Barkley, Sanders, Peterson, Martin, Tomlinson etc. its a good pick

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Positional value is important in the draft. RB at #4 overall was terrible value regardless of if Fournette was good

Naw, I guess I value the RB postition more than you. If you get a Fred Taylor, Barkley, Sanders, Peterson, Martin, Tomlinson etc. its a good pick

And if you get a Lawrence Taylor, Dan Marino, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders etc etc it's a more valuable pick..you aren't drafting in a vacuum

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If you get a Fred Taylor, Barkley, Sanders, Peterson, Martin, Tomlinson etc. its a good pick

Combined number of super bowls...zero?

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Naw, I guess I value the RB postition more than you. If you get a Fred Taylor, Barkley, Sanders, Peterson, Martin, Tomlinson etc. its a good pick

And if you get a Lawrence Taylor, Dan Marino, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders etc etc it's a more valuable pick..you aren't drafting in a vacuum

Thats why you take who you feel is the best player. Its BAP, If you feel like one of them there is a player in the draft that is going to be the next Bruce Smith, Marino, or Deion then you draft them.  Tom said it again today, they are going to take the best player, whether they hit on the pick or not it will be who they have the highest on their board for in the first round at least

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If you get a Fred Taylor, Barkley, Sanders, Peterson, Martin, Tomlinson etc. its a good pick

Combined number of super bowls...zero?

Who were those guys QBs?  The good thing is now we have a QB

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Naw, I guess I value the RB postition more than you. If you get a Fred Taylor, Barkley, Sanders, Peterson, Martin, Tomlinson etc. its a good pick

And if you get a Lawrence Taylor, Dan Marino, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders etc etc it's a more valuable pick..you aren't drafting in a vacuum

You would draft the next Vic Beasley, Dante Fowler, Teddy Bridgewater if you can get Saquon Barkley, Todd Gurley, or Ellitot just because the position is more valuable?

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And if you get a Lawrence Taylor, Dan Marino, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders etc etc it's a more valuable pick..you aren't drafting in a vacuum

You would draft the next Vic Beasley, Dante Fowler, Teddy Bridgewater if you can get Saquon Barkley, Todd Gurley, or Ellitot just because the position is more valuable?

Would you draft the next Trent Richardson over the next Fletcher Cox? Try think of your debate points  before you type them

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And if you get a Lawrence Taylor, Dan Marino, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders etc etc it's a more valuable pick..you aren't drafting in a vacuum

Thats why you take who you feel is the best player. Its BAP, If you feel like one of them there is a player in the draft that is going to be the next Bruce Smith, Marino, or Deion then you draft them.  Tom said it again today, they are going to take the best player, whether they hit on the pick or not it will be who they have the highest on their board for in the first round at least

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Combined number of super bowls...zero?

Who were those guys QBs?  The good thing is now we have a QB

It's not just BAP though. Positional value and need is built into every draft pick. 

Cmon, you've been through enough drafts to know that by now

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