Their status as freshmen members of Congress or their place on the political spectrum does not, in any way, mitigate their rights to voice dissent. 

No one suggested they don't have a right to say what they want.  We're just pointing out they also have a right to pursue other options of residency that better fit their values and lifestyle.  

There have been others with whom the President has disagreed, but his most persistent targets have been persons of color. 

The man called the white female Dem Nominee for the presidency a "Nasty" woman on national television.  He told the white female captain of the U.S. Soccer team to shut her mouth.  He just went off on a tirade on the White male Ambassador to the US from the U.K. addressing him by name and calling him an ignorant fool.  He's ripped Paul Ryan a new [BLEEP].  He insulted John McCain.  He belittled Jeb Bush to the point that an entire wing of the party still hates him.  Are we still really going to seriously sit here and keep up with this "it's only black people stuff?"

It is noteworthy nobody else (read: white) has been urged to leave the country by this president. 

That's because they are the ones spewing the "Toilet" "Concentration Camp" Garbage.  In light of the attacks over the weekend against detention facilities, they are the ones that should have been censured by congress.  

The whole "come back" argument is quite silly.  Three of the four congresswomen were born in this country. The fourth (Omar) is a U.S. citizen, and has been since she was a teenager. 

True, and if any of them need a visa sponsor to go bother the countries they feel more confidently in then I am happy to volunteer.  

Why should she be urged to go back to Somalia because she disagrees with this president's policies? 

You're absolutely right bullseye.  It's nothing to do with Anti-American Sentiment or trashing entire departments of the government, or anti-semetic comments.  It's because they think that his tariff policy has inflationary risk.  Way to read the stitches on the fastball.  

Why should she have to split her time between the country to which she has pledged allegiance when she became a citizen and a country she no longer calls home?  Why does she have the burden of fixing all of Somalia's ills before uttering policy disagreements with Trump?  Not one white male congressmen was ever required to fix all of the problems in their state before voicing disagreements. 

Actually that's not true.  Any politician aspiring higher office is usually examined on their record.  So if the governor of California wants to become president one of the first things people look at is if California is still a mess.  And if their state is a mess, that has a bearing on their credibility to run the country as a whole.  Same for house members that are supposed to be Senators or anyone aspiring to leadership in just about, well, anything.  In this instance you have four congresswomen who are fundamentally hostile to the concept of limited government and the founding of the country, that's a lot bigger than any one policy disagreement.  IF you want to proceed with fundamentally terraforming a country doesn't it make sense that a.) you show us a success story (in the case of socialism there are none.) and b.) if you don't have a success story then you should go run your social experiments in a country other than the worlds last super power?  

For that matter, Trump didn't fix ANY problems in New York as a private citizen, yet that didn't preclude him from attempting to impugn and delegitimize former President Obama with the birther thing and the query into his college qualifications. 

I know you're not that ignorant, so I take it you are lying for affect.  Creating Jobs, growing a business, and even taking over failed public works.  IF you want to B.S. me please, try harder next time.  

On the issue of how the freshmen congresswomen conducted themselves, Trump is the very last person to lecture anyone on how to conduct themselves.  If Trump truly had no racial animus driving his comments, tweets on this matter, had any leadership traits and instincts, and had a legitimate interest in having a unified country, he would make it a point to clarify his comments and urge unity.  Conservative whites threw a hissy fit when Obama said the cop acted stupidly for arresting professor Henry Louis Gates for breaking into his own home.  Obama brought professor gates and the cop for the beer summit and spoke repeatedly on the need for unity.  Trump has never come close to doing that.

Spoke repeatedly for the need for unity before inviting Black Lives Matter to the White house, "If I had a son...  He would look like Treyvon," and letting cities burn while his Justice Department had concurrent evidence to support the fact that HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT didn't happen.  I'll send someone over for the rest of your credibility later.  

[font=tahoma,helvetica,arial,sans-serif][b]Is this really what you are arguing?  First off, it doesn't answer the question of where Trump gets off telling legal US citizens to leave the country. 

First amendment applies to him too.  He didn't order them, he didn't send the marshalls out.  He made a suggestion.  

Secondly your argument about the immigrants in cages absolutely boggles the mind to a ton of different levels.  They are not being held against their will?!?  You mean to suggest they traveled thousands of miles-some by foot for the "privilege" of being locked in overcrowded cages with no cots or access to showers, changes of clothing, etc?  THAT was their plan?!?  They can return to their country of origin at any time?  Really?  How are the children, ranging in age from toddler to teenager, separated from their parents, supposed to accomplish this?  Keep in mind, this completely IGNORES the very reasons many of them left their countries of origin in the first place.  How desperate do you have to be to leave the only place you've known, uproot your family, walk throughout Central America and up the length of Mexico to reach this country?!?  Their journeys here was every bit as courageous as those of the Pilgrims who fled England.If life for them were tenable in their countries of origin, they wouldn't have come here.  Also consider many of those detained-toddlers or otherwise-have been moved to facilities around the country away from the border.  How are they supposed to return to their country of origin?  Even if you opened the door to the facilities and told them see ya later, they'd still have to walk back to the borders, potentially extending their stays here for months.  I am straining to avoid personal invective here, I really am.  But this argument on this topic epitomizes the "distasteful, misguided, myopic and bigoted" views I referenced.  What of the people who emigrate from ostensibly "non [BLEEP] countries"

1.) Immigration policy isn't about virtue signaling, it's about economics.  We can't assimilate the other 7 billion people on the planet.  So that means that by simple logic we have to have an immigration policy.  It's true, there is a human cost to the mass incarceration of a million plus people illegally crossing the border per year, but the alternative you seem to espouse (just releasing them into the country) is the abolition of American sovereignty and something completely unpalatable to the American people.  In reality, the only thing we can do is call on our allies at the southern border to increase enforcement and erect a physical barrier to make sure there are far less people to detain in the first place.  

2.) There were orders of magnitude fewer pilgrims than there are illegal migrants from central America, and also the conditions in the 17th century were markedly worse than anything that anyone living in the last two centuries can even imagine.  And out of that muck they were able to build the foundations of one of the great societies in the history of man, those coming now might have a degree of bravery but that's also mitigated by the fact that they are following in their footsteps, not truly tilling the field themselves.  Also, there was no Welfare program for the pilgrims to apply to when they got here, they arrived in the closest thing to the State of Nature that you could imagine.  The trade off of having an advanced society to flee to means obeying the laws that govern that advanced society not just barging in like you own the place.  

[/b][/font]


For the record, I am an African-American, though status as an African American is not required to discern the pernicious impact of racism.  The truly sad part about all of this is if conservatives were not so pathologically anti minority, some of their policies would actually be attractive to minorities.

Pathologically anti minority?  This is the biggest lie in the modern political ethos.  The parting gift of the eugenicists and the segregationists was to imbrue the modern political system with Sangerism.  At current in some Dem run cities like New York the abortion rate for black pregnancies is above 50%.  Think about that for a second.  That's Josh Brolin Territory.  But there isn't any Tony Stark to come in and undo the carnage that has lead to the deaths of approaching 20 million minorities which is about 40 times the amount of slaves brought to the country and 3 ties the holocaust.  Moreover, the structure of the welfare programs lauded by the left as the turning point away from racism actually did what 400 years of slavery couldn't do, destroy the black family.   In some early parts of the 19th century a black child was more likely to have a father in the home than his white counterpart and more likely to be employed in his teen years (the two greatest indicators of future success.)  After minnimum wage and welfare reform now 70 plus % of black Children live in split parent homes and some 40% don't start work until they leave the house.  From 1940 to 1960 you saw a massive drop in the black poverty rate of some 40 points, still one of the greatest economic miracles in history.  Just imagine if the left hadn't been able to convince Otherwise intelligent blacks that big government was the answer, anyone who opposed it were racist don't pay attention to the reality of death, destruction, crime, poverty, and disillusionment that our policies actually cause "Rhetoric over results"

---

I'm tired of crybabies calling racism every time a white person says something they don't like to a "person of color"
So long as people keep identifying themselves by their skin color, there will always be race issues.

All of the stuff you talk about that used to be laws, aren't anymore.... It is certainly time to move on from things that happened 50 plus years ago.
Not to mention moving on from the bad things generations hundreds of years ago did.

Should Trump say these things? Probably not. But let's stop pretending these terrible women are victims of anything.
Let's stop pretending that people born non white are automatically maligned and segregated and mistreated.
You can only be a victim of your circumstance for so long.

I don't condone racism, bigotry, or the general non acceptance of people who live different lifestyles and have different beliefs (gays, amish, muslims, whatever)
But I also don't really care what anyone says. And to think that hatred is worse for some than it is for others is laughable. To think "people of color" aren't racists to white people on the daily is naive at best and stupid at the more realistic.

But whatever, you guys can all keep squirming, whining and complaining over every little tweet and NBC news story for the next 5 years or so.
These 4 "champions" that decided to hold a press conference to drive home their BS racism claims are just as guilty as anyone for being divisive.

Identify politics ladies and gents. It'll make losers of us all.

What Trump said was inaccurate (going back to where they came from) and maybe even mildly ignorant (who exactly is surprised by anything he says anymore?!)
But my point is... that today Muslims, Blacks, women, etc are all treated better than ever before in history. And there are still some strides to be made but that is hindered every time they use their race,  sex, or orientation or religion to further drive a wedge between people.

And it is tenfold on a message board where the only purpose is for people to argue, complain, point fingers, and call names (and scream RACIST!)
So please, carry on, all of you that think you're better than someone else because it hurts your feelings when people say mean things.

I know what I am, and what I'm not. Despite the many cries of mikesez, Adam2012, and the rest of the bib brigade.

This kind of comment is the worst kind of privilege.  They just need to get over it, right?  From you, who has never had to experience the same?  People in this country have been identified, classified, profiled, and treated differently due to race for 90% of this country's history, and your solution is "well, that's over now, so move on!"  It makes it sorta hard when there are still groups and people like the [BLEEP] PRESIDENT who continue to perpetuate [BLEEP] like this.  There were people holding signs of Obama in a noose and burning effigies of him when he was elected, but we should just ignore that, right?  Racism's dead though, yeah?  As late as the 80s, black people in this country couldn't secure loans to buy homes, resulting in systemic and racially motivated poverty that still has an effect today.  But hey, that shouldn't matter any more!

I don't think you could showcase any more clearly how out of touch you are.

Blah blah blah.

Black people couldn't secure loans because they couldn't afford them. The successful black people did just fine.

Moral of the story - if you want nice things - be successful - and no success has zero to do with skin color and everything to do with initiative and drive.

Example - I'm lazy and perfectly fine coasting through on my natural intelligence. But if I had initiative and drive and ambition I could easily be a millionaire. But who wants that hassle? I don't want to work every second of my life.

---

So much division in this thread. Disheartening to see. Can we all agree at least that it seems the Democratic and Republican party are BOTH guilty of being destructive towards this Country? That BOTH parties are pretty damn good at keeping us all at odds with each other? 

It's just pandering at the end of the day.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

So much division in this thread. Disheartening to see. Can we all agree at least that it seems the Democratic and Republican party are BOTH guilty of being destructive towards this Country? That BOTH parties are pretty damn good at keeping us all at odds with each other? 

It's just pandering at the end of the day.

Both parties have done an incredible job of polarizing, even radicalizing their bases in such a way that a centrist third party would be seen by their voters as a threat rather than an alternative.

---

So much division in this thread. Disheartening to see. Can we all agree at least that it seems the Democratic and Republican party are BOTH guilty of being destructive towards this Country? That BOTH parties are pretty damn good at keeping us all at odds with each other? 

It's just pandering at the end of the day.

Both parties have done an incredible job of polarizing, even radicalizing their bases in such a way that a centrist third party would be seen by their voters as a threat rather than an alternative.

I pray for a centrist third party.  Sign me up.  I would even donate money.

---

[quote pid='1220763' dateline='1563236605']
Bullseye
There were laws in this country governing things as mundane as:

• Where people of color could live
  
• whom people of color could marry
  
• into what entrances people of color could enter
  
• from what water fountains people of color could drink
  
• Where people of color could be after sundown
  
• what hospitals could treat people of color
  
• what schools/colleges/universities people of color could attend
  
• where people of color could sit in theaters, diners and other establishments-if allowed in
  
• under what circumstances people of color could serve on juries
  and countless other areas.  This doesn't even get into laws that are facially race neutral but with discriminatory effect, nor does this get into the private practices and societal norms otherwise not codified in the law.  So committed was the South to those repugnant principles and practices, they were willing to secede from this country.
  

These laws persisted throughout this country's history until the 1960s and 70s.  These laws could not persist without the assent of the majority-actual or tacit.  When these laws were changed, the people who supported those unjust laws and practices didn't just disappear.  Many passed their bigotry down to their kids, and worked to weaken the new laws designed to promote equality.  If laws against speeding-which have well known and tangible penalties for violating them-are routinely ignored by those not inclined to obey them, what of those laws that endeavor to enforce equality?  

If you are tired of hearing about racism, trust me when I tell you people of color are tired of experiencing it.  If you personally do not support the tenets of bigotry, then speak out against those who perpetuate it.  If,as I suspect you do, then prepare for the fallout of your hatred, which includes substantial rejection in the marketplace of ideas.

1.  I'm tired of crybabies calling racism every time a white person says something they don't like to a "person of color"
So long as people keep identifying themselves by their skin color, there will always be race issues.

2.  All of the stuff you talk about that used to be laws, aren't anymore.... It is certainly time to move on from things that happened 50 plus years ago.
Not to mention moving on from the bad things generations hundreds of years ago did.

3.  Should Trump say these things? Probably not. But let's stop pretending these terrible women are victims of anything.
Let's stop pretending that people born non white are automatically maligned and segregated and mistreated.
You can only be a victim of your circumstance for so long.

4.  I don't condone racism, bigotry, or the general non acceptance of people who live different lifestyles and have different beliefs (gays, amish, muslims, whatever)
But I also don't really care what anyone says. And to think that hatred is worse for some than it is for others is laughable. To think "people of color" aren't racists to white people on the daily is naive at best and stupid at the more realistic.

But whatever, you guys can all keep squirming, whining and complaining over every little tweet and NBC news story for the next 5 years or so.
These 4 "champions" that decided to hold a press conference to drive home their BS racism claims are just as guilty as anyone for being divisive.

5.  Identify politics ladies and gents. It'll make losers of us all.

6.  What Trump said was inaccurate (going back to where they came from) and maybe even mildly ignorant (who exactly is surprised by anything he says anymore?!)
But my point is... that today Muslims, Blacks, women, etc are all treated better than ever before in history. And there are still some strides to be made but that is hindered every time they use their race,  sex, or orientation or religion to further drive a wedge between people.

And it is tenfold on a message board where the only purpose is for people to argue, complain, point fingers, and call names (and scream RACIST!)
So please, carry on, all of you that think you're better than someone else because it hurts your feelings when people say mean things.

I know what I am, and what I'm not. Despite the many cries of mikesez, Adam2012, and the rest of the bib brigade.
[/quote]
(Numbering added)

So much to unpack here.  I initially wanted to address only a couple of your points, but such restrictions are not possible for me in light of these arguments presented.

1.  What did Tamir Rice do to identify as black to cause his shooting and exacerbate racial tensions?  To refresh the collective memory, Tamir Rice was a 12 year old boy in Cleveland, OH playing with a BB gun in a park.  Somebody called the police, and literally within 2 seconds of the police officer arriving on the scene, the responding officer shot and killed Rice.  Here is the video of the shooting  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU  The video includes audio of the 911 call which began this encounter.  Keep in mind Cleveland is in an Open Carry state.  Furthermore, the 911 caller stated she believed him to be a juvenile and that the gun was probably fake, and did not indicate anyone had been shot.  Literally within two seconds of the officer arriving on the scene, the officer shot and killed Rice.  As predictable as the sun rise, whenever there is a police involved shooting of a black male, conservatives (who conveniently NEVER, EVER play identity politics-yeah right) assert the black would be alive had they complied with officer commands.  What command could the officer have given in the two seconds it took for him to arrive on the scene and shoot Rice?  How could Rice have processed the command, much less offered compliance, within that time?  Notice that the officer overestimates Rice's age by EIGHT (8) years.

Perhaps holding a BB gun in an open carry state is has too many safety concerns to make this a clear cut case.

What then about this shooting of a mental health worker in Miami?  Here is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEJpRGIDbhY

The man, who was trying to calm his mentally disabled client,  was unarmed and complying with every officer command.  His hands were up.  What did he do to identify as black-other than just exist-to exacerbate racial tensions by being shot for no reason?

2.  Apparently you missed the whole point about racism persisting to this date despite the promulgation of the various civil rights legislation passed in the 60s and 70s.  Obviously the analogy to speeding was lost on you.  Mea culpa for not making the point clearer.  But I must say the urging us to move on from the bad things that happened 50+ years ago is interesting.  As I recall from history, The Civil War ended in 1865, yet conservatives insist upon the preservation of confederate monuments.  The Tennessee governor just honored Confederate general and KKK founder Nathan B. Forrest.  Entire industries are dedicated to selling confederate paraphernalia.  Yet obsessing over the events and people from 150+ years ago the way conservatives do does not elicit from you the same admonitions to "move on" the way African Americans are to summarily forget the past.  Why is that?  Why is it bad for me to express revulsion at the motivations for secession, but it's desirable to honor those who had those motivations and betrayed the country to realize them?  There's more I can say to this dynamic, but I will stop for now.

3.  So tell me, if skin color does not trigger discrimination, what does?  Does discrimination come with the onset of puberty?  Is there a height requirement like at amusement parks?  Is there a pledge process where you are given a secret handshake?

4 & 5  If oppression is equally distributed among races with equal negative impact, what is the white equivalent of the African slave trade?  What is the white equivalent of the Tuskeegee experiment or the trail of tears?  What is the white equivalent of what is happening on the border now?  I do not go as far as some to suggest minorities can not be racist.  A minority is quite adept at hurling a racial slur or physically attacking someone for being white.  There are differences in the dynamic, however.  Considering disparate population sizes, considering whites dominate the political and economic power structure, African Americans can not implement comprehensive measures to suppress whites.  Whites in this country have never been denied the right to vote for the reason of their race.  Whites in this country have never been prohibited from serving on juries by virtue of their race.  Whites in this country earn considerably more than their non white counterparts even for doing the same jobs.  It goes on and on.  Taken in sum, Identity politics in this country only makes losers of minorities by most objective measures.

6.  It's awfully benevolent of you to tolerate us being treated better than an any time in history.  I know that's a most unpleasant and inconvenient imposition on many of you.  But what is the significance of your statement there is still work to be done?  If there is still work to be done in those areas, doesn't that mean inequalities still exist?  If you can observe those inequalities, why can't minorities, without the charge of playing identity politics?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

This kind of comment is the worst kind of privilege.  They just need to get over it, right?  From you, who has never had to experience the same?  People in this country have been identified, classified, profiled, and treated differently due to race for 90% of this country's history, and your solution is "well, that's over now, so move on!"  It makes it sorta hard when there are still groups and people like the [BLEEP] PRESIDENT who continue to perpetuate [BLEEP] like this.  There were people holding signs of Obama in a noose and burning effigies of him when he was elected, but we should just ignore that, right?  Racism's dead though, yeah?  As late as the 80s, black people in this country couldn't secure loans to buy homes, resulting in systemic and racially motivated poverty that still has an effect today.  But hey, that shouldn't matter any more!

I don't think you could showcase any more clearly how out of touch you are.

Blah blah blah.

Black people couldn't secure loans because they couldn't afford them. The successful black people did just fine.

Moral of the story - if you want nice things - be successful - and no success has zero to do with skin color and everything to do with initiative and drive.

Example - I'm lazy and perfectly fine coasting through on my natural intelligence. But if I had initiative and drive and ambition I could easily be a millionaire. But who wants that hassle? I don't want to work every second of my life.

You should brush up on your history, friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

---

Will you condemn the Democratic Party for their racist pillars, past and present? I mean, since we are separating from ideals and all.

Sure.

The Democratic party, up until the 1960s, was political home to racist segregationists who advanced repugnant policies designed to perpetuate oppression of African Americans and other minorities.  The Democrats who were so aligned, and the party that tolerated them were spectacularly wrong then.  Until that point, they were equally as repugnant as their Confederate predecessors.

However, there is an important distinction between the Confederacy and the Democratic party.

The Confederacy never repented for the evils they perpetuated.  For the entirety of its existence, the Confederacy fought AGAINST the freedom and equality of African Americans.  There is no indicia the Confederacy ever rescinded or renounced their beliefs of white supremacy, either rhetorically or in their actions.

However, the Democratic party evolved over time to become the party who fought for Civil rights for minorities, starting with the Kennedy administration and continuing with Lyndon Johnson's signing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  Johnson predicted the Democratic party has lost the South for a generation with that signing.  Since then, there has been an ideological shift in the parties.  Segregationists who no longer felt the Democratic party represented their views defected to the Republican party over the next few years.  The South, which was traditionally solidly democratic, has now aligned itself with the Republican party.  Meanwhile, the Democratic party has cultivated many African American political figures over the years, including Former President Barack Obama.  The current Republican party, bearing little resemblance to the "Party of Lincoln" has done nothing of the sort.

The Democratic party evolving or switching is a fairy tale used by the party to keep minorities from seeing the truth. It's still a suppressive party only glossed over as helping...just enough.

1.) The pillars (past and present) of the Republican Party remain the same since the beginning and are published in the National Archives for all to read.
2.) Provide me a list of politicians who swapped parties. This should be easy if there were this mass party flip as some claim.
3.) FYI, the south was still overwhelmingly Democratically controlled until the early 1990s with most not shifting to a Republican legislature until early to mid-2000s.
4.) If LBJ and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a jumping-off point, why was MLK still fighting for civil rights and propping up the Republican Party as the party of equality up until his death in 1968? Let us also remember; it was a Republican Congress that authored and passed the Civil Rights Act.

FYI, the Republican Party has cultivated more prominent African American politicians than the Dem party. Just saying!

---

Bravo!

Oh? Do tell how Obama protests were the first and racially motivated when history easily and clearly demonstrates otherwise.

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

Nah, it's just because of skin color.

I never said the anti Obama protests were the first racially motivated in the history of the country.

This country has a long history of racial motivated protests.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

This kind of comment is the worst kind of privilege.  They just need to get over it, right?  From you, who has never had to experience the same?  People in this country have been identified, classified, profiled, and treated differently due to race for 90% of this country's history, and your solution is "well, that's over now, so move on!"  It makes it sorta hard when there are still groups and people like the [BLEEP] PRESIDENT who continue to perpetuate [BLEEP] like this.  There were people holding signs of Obama in a noose and burning effigies of him when he was elected, but we should just ignore that, right?  Racism's dead though, yeah?  As late as the 80s, black people in this country couldn't secure loans to buy homes, resulting in systemic and racially motivated poverty that still has an effect today.  But hey, that shouldn't matter any more!

I don't think you could showcase any more clearly how out of touch you are.

Blah blah blah.

Black people couldn't secure loans because they couldn't afford them. The successful black people did just fine.

Moral of the story - if you want nice things - be successful - and no success has zero to do with skin color and everything to do with initiative and drive.

Example - I'm lazy and perfectly fine coasting through on my natural intelligence. But if I had initiative and drive and ambition I could easily be a millionaire. But who wants that hassle? I don't want to work every second of my life.

As one who has benefited greatly from luck, I can tell you for sure that initiative and drive are nice, but luck is even better.  Some people are born with advantages that others don't have.  They are surrounded by people who help them along the way, or they are born with wealth.  

Luck counts just as much as initiative and drive.  I'm sure I'm as lazy as you are.  But I can admit that luck played a huge role in where I am today.  In my case, I was born a white middle class male in the United States, in a family that valued education and had the resources to help me all along the way.  That's hitting the lottery.  I was lucky in a lot of other ways, too.  

Getting the right balance between equal opportunity on the one hand, and freedom and private property on the other hand, is hard.  Enlightened societies that value freedom and private property rights are always searching for that balance.  Because freedom doesn't mean you are born with an equal opportunity.  Remove all the barriers you want, but rich people will always have an advantage over poor people.  How much of an advantage we want them to have is the big question that plagues free market capitalistic enlightened societies.

Racism does exist, and it does make being black a disadvantage.  Now, the BIG question is, what to do about it.  I happen to think that most of our "remedies" for racism and discrimination are counter-productive.  But I would never deny that racism exists and is a disadvantage for people who are subject to it.

---

Both parties have done an incredible job of polarizing, even radicalizing their bases in such a way that a centrist third party would be seen by their voters as a threat rather than an alternative.

I pray for a centrist third party.  Sign me up.  I would even donate money.

Same. It would get me off the sideline and more involved in the game every four years. At this point the "lesser of two evils' logic is failing society here for the long term. And there's truly a large, silent majority here dying for another legitimate option.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

[quote pid='1220763' dateline='1563236605']
Bullseye
There were laws in this country governing things as mundane as:

• Where people of color could live
  
• whom people of color could marry
  
• into what entrances people of color could enter
  
• from what water fountains people of color could drink
  
• Where people of color could be after sundown
  
• what hospitals could treat people of color
  
• what schools/colleges/universities people of color could attend
  
• where people of color could sit in theaters, diners and other establishments-if allowed in
  
• under what circumstances people of color could serve on juries
  and countless other areas.  This doesn't even get into laws that are facially race neutral but with discriminatory effect, nor does this get into the private practices and societal norms otherwise not codified in the law.  So committed was the South to those repugnant principles and practices, they were willing to secede from this country.
  

These laws persisted throughout this country's history until the 1960s and 70s.  These laws could not persist without the assent of the majority-actual or tacit.  When these laws were changed, the people who supported those unjust laws and practices didn't just disappear.  Many passed their bigotry down to their kids, and worked to weaken the new laws designed to promote equality.  If laws against speeding-which have well known and tangible penalties for violating them-are routinely ignored by those not inclined to obey them, what of those laws that endeavor to enforce equality?  

If you are tired of hearing about racism, trust me when I tell you people of color are tired of experiencing it.  If you personally do not support the tenets of bigotry, then speak out against those who perpetuate it.  If,as I suspect you do, then prepare for the fallout of your hatred, which includes substantial rejection in the marketplace of ideas.

1.  I'm tired of crybabies calling racism every time a white person says something they don't like to a "person of color"
So long as people keep identifying themselves by their skin color, there will always be race issues.

2.  All of the stuff you talk about that used to be laws, aren't anymore.... It is certainly time to move on from things that happened 50 plus years ago.
Not to mention moving on from the bad things generations hundreds of years ago did.

3.  Should Trump say these things? Probably not. But let's stop pretending these terrible women are victims of anything.
Let's stop pretending that people born non white are automatically maligned and segregated and mistreated.
You can only be a victim of your circumstance for so long.

4.  I don't condone racism, bigotry, or the general non acceptance of people who live different lifestyles and have different beliefs (gays, amish, muslims, whatever)
But I also don't really care what anyone says. And to think that hatred is worse for some than it is for others is laughable. To think "people of color" aren't racists to white people on the daily is naive at best and stupid at the more realistic.

But whatever, you guys can all keep squirming, whining and complaining over every little tweet and NBC news story for the next 5 years or so.
These 4 "champions" that decided to hold a press conference to drive home their BS racism claims are just as guilty as anyone for being divisive.

5.  Identify politics ladies and gents. It'll make losers of us all.

6.  What Trump said was inaccurate (going back to where they came from) and maybe even mildly ignorant (who exactly is surprised by anything he says anymore?!)
But my point is... that today Muslims, Blacks, women, etc are all treated better than ever before in history. And there are still some strides to be made but that is hindered every time they use their race,  sex, or orientation or religion to further drive a wedge between people.

And it is tenfold on a message board where the only purpose is for people to argue, complain, point fingers, and call names (and scream RACIST!)
So please, carry on, all of you that think you're better than someone else because it hurts your feelings when people say mean things.

I know what I am, and what I'm not. Despite the many cries of mikesez, Adam2012, and the rest of the bib brigade.

(Numbering added)

So much to unpack here.  I initially wanted to address only a couple of your points, but such restrictions are not possible for me in light of these arguments presented.

1.  What did Tamir Rice do to identify as black to cause his shooting and exacerbate racial tensions?  To refresh the collective memory, Tamir Rice was a 12 year old boy in Cleveland, OH playing with a BB gun in a park.  Somebody called the police, and literally within 2 seconds of the police officer arriving on the scene, the responding officer shot and killed Rice.  Here is the video of the shooting  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSCftESyKyU  The video includes audio of the 911 call which began this encounter.  Keep in mind Cleveland is an Open Carry state.  Furthermore, the 911 caller stated she believed him to be a juvenile and that the gun was probably fake, and did not indicate anyone had been shot.  Literally within two seconds of the officer arriving on the scene, the officer shot and killed Rice.  As predictable as the sun rise, whenever there is a police involved shooting of a black male, conservatives (who conveniently NEVER, EVER play identity politics-yeah right) assert the black would be alive had they complied with officer commands.  What command could the officer have given in the two seconds it took for him to arrive on the scene and shoot Rice?  How could Rice have processed the command, much less offered compliance, within that time?  Notice that the officer overestimates Rice's age by EIGHT (8) years.

Perhaps holding a BB gun in an open carry state is has too many safety concerns to make this a clear cut case.

What then about this shooting of a mental health worker in Miami?  Here is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEJpRGIDbhY

The man, who was trying to calm his mentally disabled client,  was unarmed and complying with every officer command.  His hands were up.  What did he do to identify as black-other than just exist-to exacerbate racial tensions by being shot for no reason?

2.  Apparently you missed the whole point about racism persisting to this date despite the promulgation of the various civil rights legislation passed in the 60s and 70s.  Obviously the analogy to speeding was lost on you.  Mea culpa for not making the point clearer.  But I must say the urging us to move on from the bad things that happened 50+ years ago is interesting.  As I recall from history, The Civil War ended in 1865, yet conservatives insist upon the preservation of confederate monuments.  The Tennessee governor just honored Confederate general and KKK founder Nathan B. Forrest.  Entire industries are dedicated to selling confederate paraphernalia.  Yet obsessing over the events and people from 150+ years ago the way conservatives do does not elicit from you the same admonitions to "move on" the way African Americans are to summarily forget the past.  Why is that?  Why is it bad for me to express revulsion at the motivations for secession, but it's desirable to honor those who had those motivations and betrayed the country to realize them?  There's more I can say to this dynamic, but I will stop for now.

3.  So tell me, if skin color does not trigger discrimination, what does?  Does discrimination come with the onset of puberty?  Is there a height requirement like at amusement parks?  Is there a pledge process where you are given a secret handshake?

4 & 5  If oppression is equally distributed among races with equal negative impact, what is the white equivalent of the African slave trade?  What is the white equivalent of the Tuskeegee experiment or the trail of tears?  What is the white equivalent of what is happening on the border now?  I do not go as far as some to suggest minorities can not be racist.  A minority is quite adept at hurling a racial slur or physically attacking someone for being white.  There are differences in the dynamic, however.  Considering disparate population sizes, considering whites dominate the political and economic power structure, African Americans can not implement comprehensive measures to suppress whites.  Whites in this country have never been denied the right to vote for the reason of their race.  Whites in this country have never been prohibited from serving on juries by virtue of their race.  Whites in this country earn considerably more than their non white counterparts even for doing the same jobs.  It goes on and on.  Taken in sum, Identity politics in this country only makes losers of minorities by most objective measures.

6.  It's awfully benevolent of you to tolerate us being treated better than an any time in history.  I know that's a most unpleasant and inconvenient imposition on many of you.  But what is the significance of your statement there is still work to be done?  If there is still work to be done in those areas, doesn't that mean inequalities still exist?  If you can observe those inequalities, why can't minorities, without the charge of playing identity politics?
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Sure you can come up with examples of blacks being wrongly shot by cops. Whites are wrongly shot by cops too. My childhood neighbor's (white) husband was shot and killed by a cop. He was unarmed. Whites are killed by cops at twice the rate of blacks. Murder by police has more to do with "power corrupts" than racism (although I agree that some cops are racist). The failure to address the problem is that cops who murder are rarely convicted, and that too is because of government privilege.

Refresh my memory now, which party supports more and more government power?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I pray for a centrist third party.  Sign me up.  I would even donate money.

Same. It would get me off the sideline and more involved in the game every four years. At this point the "lesser of two evils' logic is failing society here for the long term. And there's truly a large, silent majority here dying for another legitimate option.

I thought we had one in the Libertarian Party, then Gary Johnson forgot that there's a thing called "foreign policy".

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Refresh my memory now, which party supports more and more government power?

They both do, and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

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Same. It would get me off the sideline and more involved in the game every four years. At this point the "lesser of two evils' logic is failing society here for the long term. And there's truly a large, silent majority here dying for another legitimate option.

I thought we had one in the Libertarian Party, then Gary Johnson forgot that there's a thing called "foreign policy".

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Refresh my memory now, which party supports more and more government power?

They both do, and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

And Gary's intense love for private prisons

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Same. It would get me off the sideline and more involved in the game every four years. At this point the "lesser of two evils' logic is failing society here for the long term. And there's truly a large, silent majority here dying for another legitimate option.

I thought we had one in the Libertarian Party, then Gary Johnson forgot that there's a thing called "foreign policy".

Libertarians want less government.  I don't want less government, or more government, or the same amount of government.  I want the right amount of government.  
That's the difference between me and a libertarian.

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I thought we had one in the Libertarian Party, then Gary Johnson forgot that there's a thing called "foreign policy".

Libertarians want less government.  I don't want less government, or more government, or the same amount of government.  I want the right amount of government.  
That's the difference between me and a libertarian.

Yes. Neither bigger nor smaller, just competent!

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The biggest issue facing the black community is accepting that your race isn't the reason bad things happen to you.

Democrats have taught you, and other groups, that you aren't accountable for your own success or problems.

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Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.

This will definitely be my last post in this thread as I certainly won't be convincing any of you that I'm not racist, or not privileged, or whatever....

I'm not going to bullet point any more retorts. Especially to some people who obviously have enough time to sit on the message board complaining about how bad their life is in 2019.
Yes some black, brown, yellow, and red people face racism every day. (And will likely deal with it from ignorant people forever, you will never cure racism or hate, period) No they don't all face racism. The strides still to be made are in our education, not in policy or law, imo.
White people also face racism. Despite popular belief, racism isn't a thing created by whites. White people are often mislabeled as privileged and racist. Too often. I wasn't born with any privilege, that is a fallacy.

The poor people argue over race religion sex and creed.
And the rich people laugh and stay in power.

There are successful and rich people of color throughout the world.
There are poor homeless white people... there are gun victims and rape victims that are white.... there are white people on welfare (actually at a higher clip than blacks last I checked)

As long as we're arguing over the wrong things, nothing will ever get better.

You can only be a victim of circumstance for so long before you've just relegated yourself to playing the victim.
AOC and the likes are doing a disservice to people of color.

And the sheep in this thread more worried about mean ol Trump aren't helping, you're just fanning flames.

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Libertarians want less government.  I don't want less government, or more government, or the same amount of government.  I want the right amount of government.  
That's the difference between me and a libertarian.

Yes. Neither bigger nor smaller, just competent!

No, 3.6 Trillion is just too big, period. The incompetence of most the federal government just makes that number even worse.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yes. Neither bigger nor smaller, just competent!

No, 3.6 Trillion is just too big, period. The incompetence of most the federal government just makes that number even worse.

+37.5

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